Double Standards with Women

[Passions55]

Mmm, i'm not sure how right you are about that. More and more fathers are becoming the ones to stay at home. As more women enter the career field (and stay in their careers), more fathers are choosing to stay at home and be the homemaker. It isn't like the 50's-80's, where it was always the woman, or even EXPECTED to be the woman.

Hell, just last week my fiancee and I ran into a couple who had infant twins...and the wife traveled and worked all week, and the father stayed home.

yeah, I guess you are right. I was basing my opinion on my own personal experience with this sort of thing. And most of it has been pretty narrow minded

*Nods* and see, it goes both ways. A woman who chooses to continue working shouldn't be put down or looked down upon for making this choice. ALL women have the right to choose whether they want to work or stay at home, and neither choice makes them a bad person or a bad mother.

and you know what gets me the most is that its mostly women who are doing the criticizing not guys. And these are women who are not old but are about in the same age group as this woman is. Honestly I notice that some mothers are very catty and judgmental of other mothers and look for any excuse to point out how terrible they are at motherhood. WTF is the deal with that .

I agree I think if my situation had been abit different and I was still with my old career and husband, that if I felt the need to continue to work that kind of arangement would have worked perfectly. Im not old fashion in the least or a radical feminist but the fact of the matter was the field I worked in paid better money then my husbands job did, so that situation would have probably been the best if things had worked out that way.

I love that things didnt work out that way though. I like being able to be there for my son threw his milestones and I believe if you can stay at home and want to go on and do it.

Its very nice that you like the arrangement that was set up for you with you and your and that you feel that you could be there for him. I don't have kids so maybe I have no right to voice an opinion on this but, I think that even if a woman decides to stay with her career instead of staying home with her kids, can still be there and support there children as much as a mother that stays at home. I'm not say that was what you where saying Senshi_of_Vision, I'm just making a point. My aunt is a legal researcher and when she had my cousins she only stayed out of work for the first six month after their birth then went back to work. And she was always capable of being there for her kids when they needed her and supported them, plus my uncle was also very hands on with the child rearing even though has a career as well and some how between the two of them they managed.

[Senshi_of_Vision]

I agree Passions and my point was if a woman can manage to stay home and do it great, if she cannot or if she feels she better provides for her family by working she shouldnt feel bad about that either. Sorry posted my post at 2am yesterday and tend to get all babbly that late.

My view is a woman should make her own path now adays especially, if she feels that staying home with her children even if its till they graduate from highschool and can do that economically then it should be her right. Or if she feels that once the baby is weened from her *if breastfeeding* or comfortable enough around someone else and shes better off working she shouldnt feel that shes less of a mom. Its really sad that some women can take the joy out of mother hood by trying to make some feel guilty for their own personal choices. Its like I said before its some weird one upsmanship its like "i can be supermom and work why cant you?" Or "I stay home and bond with my baby and your neglecting yours."

To me its ridiculous because everyone has a different approach to things and kids as long as they have love will be okay. But for some strange reason many dont see this they want a carbon copy world. And its sad on both sides because there are stay at home mothers who look down on working mothers, and working mothers who think stay at home mothers are lazy. what ever happened to minding your own buisness and taking care of your own? I dunno maybe its just me.

[Passions55]

thanks Senshi_of_Vision I'm glad you agree. I just feel pretty strongly about this issue about new mothers being made to feel they are horrible just because they choose to continue their careers even after they have babies in the home. The same goes for new dads as well I don't think they should be regarded as being less manly just because they are staying at home with the baby for a few years instead if the woman. But, I was wondering...do you think that if work places had in office day care centers so that working moms and dads could bring their child into work with them and have easy access to them during the day that it would help out more? I've heard a lot of pros and cons about this arrangement so I guess its still some thing that's up in the air.

I do have another gripe about double standards for women. Why do so many woman play the "I have PMS" card to get away with being a total bitch. Honestly this one in particular really pisses me off the most. Why do some women feel that a certain function in their body excuses them from being held accountable for their reactions. Seriously I've been around woman who snap and snarl and yell at people for no damn good reason (other than the fact that they are probably just a bitch) and when they are called on it they give the feminine excuse "I can't help it, I'm on my period" or "I have PMS". And they act like that this is an acceptable excuse for their behavior when its not. Any guy who acts all pissy and petulant and snaps at people would be held accountable for their behavior. Why do some women believe that they can get away with it because of some emotional flux in their bodies? Now I under stand that some women have it bad and that when you get older that it'll probably get worse, but...I get PMS sometimes. And I get all irritable and angry and have the feeling to rip some ones head off when I get like this too. But damn it, I don't take it out on people. And I certainly don't use it as an excuse for my behavior. I'm a little offended at how carelessly some women throw this around, and frankly I don't get why any one would want to announce to any one something so private about them selves. I think women have had to put up with the stereo-type that, as women we are too unreasonable and emotional to be taken seriously. That we can't be as rational as a man in the same situations because we are geared to be more emotionally weak than men are. Women have fought really hard to prove that is not the case and to be seen as level headed individuals who can handle high pressure careers and settings like men can (like politics) but all that gets really discredited when there are still women out there who play the "I can't help being emotional and irrational right now because I'm on my period", card and I can't tell you how many women I've seen do this, and its embarrassing.

[Tiff]

I do have another gripe about double standards for women. Why do so many woman play the "I have PMS" card to get away with being a total bitch. Honestly this one in particular really pisses me off the most. Why do some women feel that a certain function in their body excuses them from being held accountable for their reactions. Seriously I've been around woman who snap and snarl and yell at people for no damn good reason (other than the fact that they are probably just a bitch) and when they are called on it they give the feminine excuse "I can't help it, I'm on my period" or "I have PMS". quote]

While I agree it's not JUSTIFICATION for behaving a certain way, some women DO behave a certain way when they have PMS, and honestly don't realize it, or honestly can't help it until after the fact. I'm one of them. So is my mom. Before I was pregnant, I had seriously bad PMS that pumped so many hormones into me, that I seriously acted like a completely different person while on it. Again, it's not a justification or a free card to act how one wishes, but it's also a real thing that some women honestly just cannot help. It's the same as when some of us have PMS, we burst into random tears, and can't explain why.

pregnancy goes this way, too. =P

[Senshi_of_Vision]

LOL im overly hormonal as it is and when I was pregnant woo I dont know how people put up with my butt. My situation I couldnt blame pms cause I didnt have a normal period anyway, I always chalked it up to me being a moody person in general lol.

as for the daycare thing I think if a company provides that option and the mother feels comfortable enough to use it then its a great compromise. I know for myself personally it wouldnt work. When I was working at my office I had to focus all my time and attention on getting the job done. When you work with other peoples money they dont want to hear you stopped what your doing to check on your little one. I think some people could pull it off, but for myself I know id never be able to give my old job 100 percent focus enough if my child was there. Heck trying to code from home at times is impossible because im constantly needed. And since I nursed it would have been even more things to pull me away from my desk. But there are some really good companies who do provide care for mothers and now there are more and more companies who are offering paternity leave which I like seeing to.

I look at it this way sure we women do the hard part of giving birth, but the men if they are good will be right up there with you in the middle of the night when your kid is screaming for the umpteenth time. Singing offkey with you trying to calm him or her down, or taking them for the 6th trip around the block cause the car seems to put the kid out. Why should a dad have to immediately go back to work when hes going to be exausted to? I really hope more companies start doing this and more guys feel comfortable taking this time off cause they do play a big part (once again if they are good guys) in taking care of the baby(ies) in the first few weeks.

And stay at home dads are awesome it used to be you didnt hear about stuff like that now its becoming more norm maybe equality in the sexes can trully happen one day as more and more traditional boundaries are knocked away.

[SeiUsa]

I've noticed that when a women talks about what she looks for in a man, and says she likes a guy with a 'hot' body and a six-pack, or maybe she prefers blondes over brunettes, nobody really cares. (And nobody really cares if she likes a guy with a little meat on him.) But, if a man were to say he perfers a woman with meat, it would be the greatest thing, but if he prefers a smaller woman (or heck, even blondes over brunettes) he'll be called shallow and "conformed to society's standards."

[Passions55]

While I agree it's not JUSTIFICATION for behaving a certain way, some women DO behave a certain way when they have PMS, and honestly don't realize it, or honestly can't help it until after the fact. I'm one of them. So is my mom. Before I was pregnant, I had seriously bad PMS that pumped so many hormones into me, that I seriously acted like a completely different person while on it. Again, it's not a justification or a free card to act how one wishes, but it's also a real thing that some women honestly just cannot help. It's the same as when some of us have PMS, we burst into random tears, and can't explain why.

pregnancy goes this way, too. =P

I know some women really have issues with PMS and that it alters their emotions. I happen to be one of them. I just have issue with women who use the "PMS" excuse all the time when they act bitchy. I mean its one thing when it only happens once a month but when its all the time they are just useing it as an excuse to be a bitch to every one. And I happen to know quite a few women who do this and honestly it pisses me off.

Pregnancy is a whole 'nother ball of wax I think, since your whole body and hormones just goes berserk.

I just get annoyed by this because there is still the sterotype that women are emotional and unreasonable and that we are. I go on some political forums and when I mentioned my my hope to one day have a woman president most of the feed back was very negative saying that they don't want a woman in office because they don't want to go to war just because she is testy and beithcy because she has PMS or has a bad hair day.

[Tiff]

I just get annoyed by this because there is still the sterotype that women are emotional and unreasonable and that we are. I go on some political forums and when I mentioned my my hope to one day have a woman president most of the feed back was very negative saying that they don't want a woman in office because they don't want to go to war just because she is testy and beithcy because she has PMS or has a bad hair day.

Well to be honest, I'm a woman adn I agree with them in a way. *shrugs* women DO tend to be more emotional than men, and they do tend to use logic and rationality less when it comes to issues that are important to them/sensitive to them. I'd have to wonder myself about a woman in office, and I'm not even really sure about how I'd feel toward that.

[Senshi_of_Vision]

To be honest I think it would take a certain kind of woman to be able to do it and I think there are plenty of women that exist that can handle the job of pres. Just like there are males out there that are chided for being super sensitive there are females who can and do hold their emotions and know when and where to use them. I think more world deals could be brokered with a woman to double standard or no a womans emotions could be what this country needs to get some things kick started that we still are waiting for. But then thats just my mad thoughts on that.

I still dont like the use of Pms for being emotional there are enough lables for everything now so pick a new one is what I say.

[peachvampiress]

My concern with a woman running for president is that most female voters will only vote for her because "ZOMG Wymyn shall rule the country!!!!!11111" and won't stop to think whether or not she's, you know, competent and shit.

[Tiff]

My concern with a woman running for president is that most female voters will only vote for her because "ZOMG Wymyn shall rule the country!!!!!11111" and won't stop to think whether or not she's, you know, competent and shit.

EXACTLY part of my point, peach.

LMAO, wymyns.

[Passions55]

well...I can't speak for other women in the country but I for one wouldn't just vote for a female candidate for president simply because she is a woman. What each candidate is going to bring to the table is my main concern and how it will affect (and hopefully improve) our country is what I'm more concerned about.

And actually I really think that a woman could do a very good job as president and be a very logical and influential leader. i think the whole "Women are to emotional to lead" excuse is bull shit. There have been other country's that have had women as Prime ministers and they have done very well. I don't see why America can't be do as well or better as any of those women that had a shot at running things. I think one of the our Countries problems is that its still to Patriarchy (is that a word?) in its foundation, and needs to allow more room for feminine influences to balance it out. People might disagree with me this but that's how I feel.

My concern with a woman running for president is that most female voters will only vote for her because "ZOMG Wymyn shall rule the country!!!!!11111" and won't stop to think whether or not she's, you know, competent and shit.

Well doesn't that way of thinking that most female voters are going to be: "oh God a woman for president I'm going to vote for her just because of that"! is sort of biased against how women voters think? I mean that statement sort of singles us out that the only reason a woman would vote for a woman to be president is because she is a woman and that we want to "over through the men mwhaha" when truthfully there may be other factors involved as to why they would vote for a female president. I mean I'm not naive I know that the simple fact that a woman running for president wouldn't appeal to women voters in her favor but this sort way of thinking sort of puts us yet again in a category that we women don't think things through and aren't logical.

I mean could the same be said of a black or Asian person (male or female) running for president would have the black and Asian voters in the country more bias in their favor for the simple fact that they are running? Wouldn't they have as much reason to go "holy heck we could rule the country" presumably just because of this fact rather than the candidates merits alone? This very well could be so but they don't normally get the same "pfft, their just voting for the black/Asian candidate just because there are black/Asian and want one of them in office". But women usually get the eye roll "she's just voting for a woman because she is a woman" brush off.

[yoshmaster5]

A lot of the arguments used against a woman president seem WAY to familiar. Most of these arguments were used against JFK, because the country didn't want a catholic president. -_-; No, it doesn't matter. Like was previously said, women have been Prime Ministers, Presidents (of other countries), and other high positions. Margeret Thatcher is the first that comes to my mind. These excuses will continue to be used, everywhere, for any election... and whoever is the Democratic nominee will ahve to endure these attacks.

[Tiff]

*shrugs* the argument about how other women lead in other countries loops us right back to how standards for women are different in the U.S. than in other countries. There's no black and white in any of these arguments.

[Passions55]

*shrugs* the argument about how other women lead in other countries loops us right back to how standards for women are different in the U.S. than in other countries. There's no black and white in any of these arguments.

What I was trying to get across was that I don't think that all women should be judged by a stereo-type that may or not be true, because I feel it really depends on the individual on how level headed and and logical or emotional they are in their decisions and reactions; not gender. Since there may be some women out there that could have the straight thinking abilities to lead the country successfully with out the inflated ego some men might have (not a personal attack on you guys out there BTW) that some times influences a mans decisions on how to do things. And that the way of thinking that women are more emotional in their decision making could bar other women who might have the skills to run the country off because the general idea is that they aren't as emotionally suited to the job because they may not be given the chance.

But I suppose at this point its just a case of agree to disagree.

[Tiff]

What I was trying to get across was that I don't think that all women should be judged by a stereo-type that may or not be true, because I feel it really depends on the individual on how level headed and and logical or emotional they are in their decisions and reactions; not gender. Since there may be some women out there that could have the straight thinking abilities to lead the country successfully with out the inflated ego some men might have (not a personal attack on you guys out there BTW) that some times influences a mans decisions on how to do things. And that the way of thinking that women are more emotional in their decision making could bar other women who might have the skills to run the country off because the general idea is that they aren't as emotionally suited to the job because they may not be given the chance.

But I suppose at this point its just a case of agree to disagree.

o.O I can't recall anywhere in my post or anybody else's where we were stating ALL women would behave like that. There are no generalizations here. Just a simple case that some women WOULD. That's all.

[Passions55]

I wasn't just refereeing to you or the people in this board but to what people with that sort of mind set in general may have. But I guess I should have been a bit more concise in my wording in my last post. I wasn't trying to put words in any ones mouth just making a statement.

I have a question for every one that has to do with pregnancy. If you have two people that get pregnant together and one of them doesn't want the pregnancy (lets say its the woman) but the other does. Do you think the woman should have more say in what to about the unwanted pregnancy since its growing in her body or do you think the guy should have just as much say since its his child too? I'm just asking for every ones personal opinion on this not what the law says on the matter but what you think.

[Tiff]

I have a question for every one that has to do with pregnancy. If you have two people that get pregnant together and one of them doesn't want the pregnancy (lets say its the woman) but the other does. Do you think the woman should have more say in what to about the unwanted pregnancy since its growing in her body or do you think the guy should have just as much say since its his child too? I'm just asking for every ones personal opinion on this not what the law says on the matter but what you think.

Honestly? I would check the abortion thread for your answers. That's really more up that alley, and we've already had a heated discussion on the matter. Feel free to contribute there..i'd rather keep that discussion out of this thread, though.

[Passions55]

I have a gripe about women in the military. Why is it there are so many women out there that don't want to be looked down on and treated with respect in traditionally male occupations instead of just a sex thing but there are women who fuck it up for the rest of us by acting like skanky whores when they are allowed in these occupations.

My cousin is in the army, and she takes her position very seriously and she works hard, she is very strong and has good leadership skills. Her hope is to move up in the ranks in the military. But she says she is very mortified by the other women who are in the military who act dirty and sleep around and act skanky with the male army men. She says that more than half the women that are in the military that she works with sleep around its not even funny, and that it inspires sexual harassment and causes the higher ups to not take them seriously and keeps the her and the women who don't sleep around from moving up. She said that three girls had to be discharged because they got pregnant.

God this really pisses me off! No wonder women get some much crap in the military and aren't taken seriously when there are slutty girls who can't keep their damn legs together fucking it up for the girls with integrity.

[StarFlame Soldier]

The problem with most stereotypes is that it's only the people that follow them that are publicised and it is actually the majority that don't agree. What kind of news is 'everything is OK, women in the army (etc) are working hard and doing the same thing as the men'? It doesn't compare to scandals. THIS IS NOT WHAT I AGREE WITH, but it is the way it is right now. I for one am fighting against these loud minorities.

Also with the PMS thing, I completely agree. I am more emotional than most at the best of times and when I get PMS I am completely unreasonable, but I still manage to feel guilty when after unfairly treating my boyfriend he says it is alright because of the PMS. NO IT'S NOT ALRIGHT! (I appreciate his patience though ). That said, why is it not alright for a guy to have a bad day (or week) and let it out (without violence)?