Should marriage have an experiation date?

[Senshi_of_Vision]

That title caught my attention when I was on my blog, some couple on xanga had it as their topic. It got me thinking, im not against marriage and I still think some people can successfully make one work as long as they understand what it means to be married. I do feel though that since it is a *contractual agreement* (IMO of course) that an option of renewel or terminate should be put into marriage licenses for those who feel it could be warrented. Yeah I know most reading this would say if you feel you have to get one of those why get married, well I used to say that about prenups and people get those all the time. I think a renew or terminate clause could help smooth over nasty divorces. The spouses agree ahead of time if things dont work out that they choose not to renew said license, then if needed hire a mediator to handle any thing like property, child custody and support. I dunno I think a few years ago Id have scoffed at the notion of this but after my own divorce I think it maynot be such a bad idea.

[Tiff]

...Whatever happened to the sanctity of marriage? I swear, it's gone downhill so fast. A prenup is entirely different. A prenup protects you and your assets should something unfortunate happen and you choose to break up. But to put an expiration date on your marriage? That's just ridiculous, IMO. I've read several articles on this,and I find it disgusting, and only gives people the excuse to try on marriage like a pair of shoes.

This also probably disgusts me so much because one of the main reasons Derek the Ass would never marry me is because "it's just a contract", and it meant nothign to him...whereas Joe married me because he loves me deeply, and wants to spend his life with me as my husband.

Marriage shouldn't be reduced to something people can try on for size, and then decide "omg i don't like it". You know what? Have some adult responsbility, and realize wtf you're getting into before you get into it. I'm not saying divorce shouldn't occur if there is some sort of wrongdoing on either spouse's side, but expiration dates on marriage just leave that door way too open for stupid things.

[Princess Latona]

I agree with you 100% Tiff. This has to easily be one of the silliest things I've ever heard.

Seriously, if you feel your relationship is so tenuous that you'd get an "expiration date" on it, then why the heck did you get married in the first place? I've always heard the advice that if you go into a marriage expecting a divorce or some other way to "get out of it", you're less likely to actually work at preserving the marriage through the harder times, and more apt to just bolt when things get "bad".

My question is, whatever happened to "in sickness and in health", "till death do us part" and all the other stuff in the vows? Marriage isn't like buying a new car, where you drive it for a few years, then trade it in on a new model when you're tired of it (or it breaks down, or whatever). Anymore, it seems less like the marriage is entered into for the benefit of the couple as a unit, and more for the partners as individuals. The individual partners think they'll be whole if they get married, and when the marriage doesn't live up to their expectations, they panic and they bolt.

(BTW, this is all a comment on American marriages only.)

[Sailormars Obsessed fan]

I wish I could agree with you but from what Ive seen for the most part the sanctity of marriage as a general rule has been gone for a long time, assuming it ever really existed at all.

Now of course I don't think this is true for all but a lot of people today get married for the wrong reasons, or way too soon in life, or simply because they are more in love with the idea of being in love then they are with their partner.

I can see a logic behind there being an "expiration date" but it needs to be more of an option then a rule. Like if a couple is married for a certain amount of time and it's clearly not working then they should be able to get out of it easily enough, but at the sametime if the marriage is working the couple shouldn't have to think "We have to make sure to renew our contract."

[Tiff]

My question is, whatever happened to "in sickness and in health", "till death do us part" and all the other stuff in the vows? Marriage isn't like buying a new car, where you drive it for a few years, then trade it in on a new model when you're tired of it (or it breaks down, or whatever). Anymore, it seems less like the marriage is entered into for the benefit of the couple as a unit, and more for the partners as individuals. The individual partners think they'll be whole if they get married, and when the marriage doesn't live up to their expectations, they panic and they bolt.

*Applaude*

That's part of the problem with this whole "expiration date" bullshit. It completely makes people unwilling to work on ANYTHING in their marriage.It's an easy way out.

I think divorce should be a last resort anyway (provided there is no abuse-child or spousal-going on. If abuse, whether it's emotional, physical, sexual, or verbal is going on and it isn't getting better, than by all means, get out). But if your complaint is that your husband isn't spending enough time with you, or that you feel overworked, or that there isn't enough balance in your marriage..WORK ON IT. Counseling. Talking. ANYTHING. Marriage isn't easy, by far, and expecting it to be so isn't very adult or responsible. If after you've both worked on things, and there still isn't improvement, THEN start thinking about other permanent options like divorce.

I spent the last three years of a 7-year relationship working on things that were making me unhappy. I wasn't demanding he change for me..he had to want to change for himself, for us, and for our relationship. I did my part, and waited for himt o do his. When I saw it wasn't going to happen, THEN I got out. And this was without being married!

and my last questino is this...say you set an expiration date, and by the time that date comes, everything is fine. What happens a year or two later when suddenly things are different, and you find yourself unhappy? Doesn't that negate and make that whole expiration date a moot point?

[Senshi_of_Vision]

Thats just the thing though people argue that married couples should fight to work on problems before divorce. And while I can understand that argument and the passion behind it. I cant help but think that an "Optional Clause" can help those who are at the end of their marriage ropes. Sometimes you cannot fix a broken relationship, and there are times when the situation is not as serious abuse and adultery and a marriage can still fail. Little things add up to, stress, finances, lack of insight before getting married. Many people get divorced for those reasons and while it may seem insignificant to some it does tend to destroy what seems to be solid relationships. Even death can stress a marriage apart.

Believe me I dont think people should divorce for stupid things like "she got too fat, or he ignores me. But now adays people who stay married in unhappy situations tend to turn into more unhealthy scenarios later on. I personally feel its unhealthy to try to save something when its obviously not going to work, or stay just because. And there are many people feel compelled to stay married just because of the "work things out" mentality or religious purposes. Even when said spouse(s) are doing something majorly detrimental, to me that can be worst then ending the marriage.

Society has hit a downward spiral with relationships many dont take marriage seriously and the few that do obviously would not want to even consider such an option. I still think that it could be a good alternative though. Prenups to me still are just another way to say hey theres a good chance that if I leave you I will need to keep my assests. It always seemed to me those who asked for one foresee a day where they would end up divorced. If you file for one of these I can honestly see a logical need for a "renew or terminate" marriage contract. The sanctity of marriage would have been a good argument years ago. But as Sailormarsobssed fan put it marriage is a revolving door for alot nowadays anyway. Many marry for the wrong reasons, and many dont see marriage as a lifetime partnership anymore. Even with kids you see many divorce and marry willy nilly and I still dont see how they do it.

When I first married I laughed at things like this I did not want to think Id end up with a failed marriage, and I did what I could to save my marriage. Now after a long process of paper work, court visits and custody termination I can understand abit better why some people would think about such an option. I loved my husband still do partly (cause I believe you always have some for of love for someone even if they get you to the point of hating them) and you cant spend 10 years with someone and not hold something of them in your heart. But after the long process of divorce, I cant help but wonder if this option had been around would things have gone smoother. Even though by the end this was something we both agreed on, the process of divorce is a long painful one.


I can also see a positive side to this as well, albeit a small one. Renewing a marriage contract for those who choose the option can show partners that they are willing to work out differences and stay married. Sure to traditionalist just staying married is enough, but I cant help but look at it threw the eyes of someone who has gone threw a divorce. It was alot easier when I was a new bride. I had the ideals of till death do us part and in sickness and in health as well. I still believe thats the way marriage should be, but sometimes things do not work out that way. And now I question if this option had been around would it be such a bad idea. I can honestly say I wouldnt have gone for it back then I was happy but now I dunno, and im honest enough to admit that. After going threw a long drawn out process it just seems to me that its an option that would have helped an already stressful situation.

I want to stress that I would prefer it to be an "OPTION" and not a standard marital progress cause god knows if I get married again its going to be for the long haul. Personally I still believe in marriage and I hope one day to find a partner that I can grow old with. I also hope that if this ever did become an option that the thought never crosses my mind to include it. But my faith in people who take marriage seriously in this day is not great and I do think some people should be allowed this if they feel its neccessary.

[Princess Latona]

I think most people would be understanding of someone who's been in your shoes, SoV. See, you made an effort to try and save your marriage, and that's commendable even if it still ended up dissolving. Good for you, I say.

I think what gains my ire are the people who get married, run into the little problems associated with marriage, then immediately look for the "easy way out" instead of trying to work at things. I know there are some circumstances where things simply cannot be worked out and divorce is the only answer, but I also believe that the minor troubles that are present in pretty much any marriage can be worked through, as long as both partners are willing to put in the effort to work through them.

[Neon Heart]

Marriage should never have an experation date... There are quite a few couples in this world who genuinely love each other. What about them? If their marriage kept expiring, they'd probably have to keep getting remarried, just because they love each other that much.

I think some people in this world just forget that some love in people are genuine. If there's a couple who wants to get a divorce, then let them go through the mess; keep the couples who still actually love each other out of it.

[Senshi_of_Vision]

I think most people would be understanding of someone who's been in your shoes, SoV. See, you made an effort to try and save your marriage, and that's commendable even if it still ended up dissolving. Good for you, I say.

I think what gains my ire are the people who get married, run into the little problems associated with marriage, then immediately look for the "easy way out" instead of trying to work at things. I know there are some circumstances where things simply cannot be worked out and divorce is the only answer, but I also believe that the minor troubles that are present in pretty much any marriage can be worked through, as long as both partners are willing to put in the effort to work through them.

Thanks, divorce is a very touchy issue and im hoping im not coming across anti marriage. I know that If I do get married again I dont think id have to consider such an option, but from what ive seen too many people treat marriage as a revolving door. And love is a great thing and I dont knock those who get married and keep the love strong, but for the couples who go into this the right way there are many more (too many more) that do it all for the wrong reasons. I guess I just cant look at it in romantic reasons when it comes to this because of that. I do not think it should be for everyone but if two people wanted that option I would not be opposed to it being put in some marriage liscenses.

[Jeff]

The idea of an "expiration date" is antithetical to the whole notion of marriage... two people bound forever.

I don't think people should put up with abuse. Separation or divorce is definitely warranted in that situation.

However, your spouse isn't always going to be wonderful. They're a person just as flawed as you are and no matter how "compatible" two people are they will clash at times. Marriage isn't about romance in the long-haul. It's about accepting another person in a way that can really only be compared to the unconditional, instinctual relationships that exist between family. Which is why it's sacred - you're choosing that relationship. That's my view, anyway.

I wouldn't get a pre-nup personally but I don't think they're bad or admitting eventual divorce. Contracts before marriage are common in quite a few cultures, including Judaism.

That said, the culture we live in certainly doesn't make it easy for people to stay together. I'm really, really grateful that my parents are still married. Back on topic, I don't think optional marriage expirations will alleviate any problems. It's already easy enough to get a divorce in most states. I think a "solution" like that would just drag the culture down more.

Honestly, this was brought up on the movie cliches thread, but the prevalence of single mothers in children's media is somewhat shocking (I'm saying this with absolutely zero negative intent towards single mothers; they have a heck of a job). When people tell me their sisters or cousins or whatever are pregnant I am always a little surprised when they don't seem at all ashamed - well, maybe not ashamed, but at least a little embarrassed or apologetic - for the fact that they're not married.

-Edit Below-

PS: Psychological research tells us that most new couples go through a "honeymoon phase" followed by more sober realizations of the nature of their married lives. So I think an expiration date would just take advantage of this and encourage selfish pleasure-based relationships with potentially devastating consequences for any children begotten of such a union.

[Tiff]

Jeff, I love your comments.

Senshi of Vision...i'm sorry, hon, but I can't read that huge wall of text. It just...ouch. So I can't really respond to you on this issue. Sorry.

[yoshmaster5]

Well, here goes...

I can't really attest any... experience in this matter. I've never even dated anyone, so I wouldnt' know how I would deal wtih this myself, but from what I've seen of other people... well...

Jeff, I agree completely. My parents, for one, I have seen go through extreme distress in their marriage... most recently over a decision my mom made with her job, and being taken advantage of financially. But they always stay together, and stick through it. Most marriages fail because of flaws in the two participants... and usually it is blamed on the male. Understandably so, because it's more likely than not the male will be the one that will commit adultery, for instance. Not always, but usually. one of my uncles recently served his wife with divorce papers because she was cheating with another man. It's almost always flaws in personality that drive these apart... and even then, that push a marriage. So many couples today rush these things, and to jsut out of high school as well... and this may make up a lot of the 60% divorce rate. one of my sister's friends got married two years ago at 19 to her high-school sweetheart. I'm skeptical... but it's not my place to decide. Part of this is the culture that exists today... with the focus on fast-paced relationships, the emotional peak, and then the crash. I've seen something like this happen so often with the few people I know, and what I hear. This happened to my sister when her boyfriend of 2 years dumped her for a college drop-out. Needless to say... my sister still doesn't really trust too many guys wtih her emotional problems.

Moving on... as for adding an 'expiration date', no. Even if marriage was inteded as a everlasting bond, in all circumstances... it's not anymore. Of the people I personally know who have divorced... it's usually after a while of marriage... say about 10 years or more. 5 of my dad's siblings have been through divorce at some point... one of my uncles twice. Luckily for the ones who have remarried... everythign I see shows that they will last. But, I don't see the majority of cases. If you divorce for a petty reason, shame on you. If its for something that you just can't take anymore, or if something like adultery, by all means. My generation... it will most likely be petty reasons. That's the case in most high school couples as well... and when one of them starts getting competely paranoid, and controlling, then it turns very dangerous. *thinks of one of my sister's friends* The concept of marriage is getting skewed by the current teen-oriented media, where it's okay to put a relationship in overdrive, and then everything works. Not true. too frequently this happens, and students pay the price. Teenage drama is nothing but that, drama. And taht adds to the divorce rate, in those foolish enough to follow their impulses immediately.

With marriage problems... they always exist. My parents, for example had been goign to a consular for the past 2-3 years... they haven't gone to her for about a year now, though. But, if one party refuses to go along with the suggestions, then there sin't much hope. Even without consulars, ads I've seen about 'keep your man faithful' involve around mixing up his sex drive. -__-; If someone is truely good, and truely committed, then you won't NEED to do anything like that. But for the problems that come up... then see a consular. For me, it's probably going to be some kind of anger issue. I'll have a short fuse, and that will get me into serious danger of a possible divorce. As for pre-nups... I don't know anything about them except what's mentioned in Liar Liar. that's my... more than two cents, and I'll stop now.

[Tiff]

I guess what I'm saying is this:

I'm not saying Divorce is wrong and nobody sould do it. That's not at all what I said, and I have a feeling, Senshi_of_Vision, you're equating my being against an expiration date as being against divorce.

If you've tried tow ork things out, and it isn't working, then fine get a divorce. But the problem with putting a stupid expiration date on a MARRIAGE is that it sets people up with false expectations, and it makes it pointless to even TRY to work things out. What's the point, if you have an easy way out?

I don't know. It's stupid, IMO, and i've made my points already as to why. I just don'tthink we should confuse this with "OMG U SHOULDN'T DIVORCE EVAR!1ONE" becuase nobody is saying that.

[Passions55]

hi people I'm back, did any one miss me

**crickets chirp**

Alright, maybe not

my two cents, I agree that there shouldn't be a experation date on marriage since marriage is supposed to be a long term thing. And in our culture today I just see so much disrespect for marrige and relationships in general that it really leaves me feeling disgusted and cynical. I know that I'm going to sound old fashioned and people are going to slame me for this, but I think the one of the reasons marriage isn't taken serious is because many people ware already doing the things that is is supposed to be reseverved for marrige. So then you get people who are like "why get married? Its just a piece of paper we'realready practically living as husband and wife, and I really think that mentallity hurts the psychology of marriage. No one wants to work on anything any more and no one really wants to get married any more eighther it seems. I see most couples who live together and then go from relationship to relationship and having kids with sevearal diffrent people and no one seems to have any attention for commitment. Now I under stand that alot of couples are mature and work on their relationships and stay comminted to each other but I find them far and in between.

But how exactly is this claus supposed to work? Is it only in leagal marriages? Because I doin't think any religious orders who marry people are going to change things in the marrige bit to have a experation date on marrige.

[Tiff]

hi people I'm back, did any one miss me

**crickets chirp**

Alright, maybe not

my two cents, I agree that there shouldn't be a experation date on marriage since marriage is supposed to be a long term thing. And in our culture today I just see so much disrespect for marrige and relationships in general that it really leaves me feeling disgusted and cynical. I know that I'm going to sound old fashioned and people are going to slame me for this, but I think the one of the reasons marriage isn't taken serious is because many people ware already doing the things that is is supposed to be reseverved for marrige. So then you get people who are like "why get married? Its just a piece of paper we'realready practically living as husband and wife, and I really think that mentallity hurts the psychology of marriage. No one wants to work on anything any more and no one really wants to get married any more eighther it seems. I see most couples who live together and then go from relationship to relationship and having kids with sevearal diffrent people and no one seems to have any attention for commitment. Now I under stand that alot of couples are mature and work on their relationships and stay comminted to each other but I find them far and in between.

I love your points as well.

Again, my boyfriend of 7 years had that atittude about marriage, mostly becuase his own parents got divorced. So it really hurt any ideas of future commitment and such. And then, I got sick, and was told I needed to have a baby soon in order to have one...and the only reason hew as going to marry me was to foster that, and becuase he didn't want to be alone.

Guess what? Not good reasons to get married. SO I DIDN'T MARRY HIM. It really isn't that hard, IMO. It was hard leaving someone after 7 years, but I did it. And it wasn't just becuase of the fact that he didn't want to get married...it was becuase there were problems for the past year that we TRIED to work out and couldn't.

This is part of being an adult, and I'm tired of the world trying to find more and more ways to get out of doing so.

[Senshi_of_Vision]

I guess what I'm saying is this:

I'm not saying Divorce is wrong and nobody sould do it. That's not at all what I said, and I have a feeling, Senshi_of_Vision, you're equating my being against an expiration date as being against divorce.

If you've tried tow ork things out, and it isn't working, then fine get a divorce. But the problem with putting a stupid expiration date on a MARRIAGE is that it sets people up with false expectations, and it makes it pointless to even TRY to work things out. What's the point, if you have an easy way out?

I don't know. It's stupid, IMO, and i've made my points already as to why. I just don'tthink we should confuse this with "OMG U SHOULDN'T DIVORCE EVAR!1ONE" becuase nobody is saying that.

I didn't Tiff trust me no where in your comments did you say "omg divorce is wrong and evil." And I do believe reading your comments about having to give up a long term relationship. Trust me I have catholics in my family that have given me the whole divorce is wrong speech even after knowing all I went threw so I know you werent coming across that way.

My whole thing was I wonder if I would consider something like this now after going threw divorce. I know that many see this as a bad option to a growing problem and Passions made an excellent point on why mentalities are that way. Many people dont opt to marry just because they are already in what they deem a serious relationship as well or just screwing around.

Its as I said before if I get married again (and trust me it will take someone special) that this will not be an option for me. But as someone who just went threw a long drawn out divorce process I can logically understand why some people would look to this.

I full agree that it does give a defeatest mentality and as I said I could only think of one or two small benefits from such a thing. It was basically a topic to see how people felt on the issue and no way reflects my stand on marriage or divorce. Because believe me from personal experiance divorce is something that is truly last resort for alot of people still.

[Tiff]

Gotcha.

I just wish people took marriage the way they s hould..unfortunately, a lot of people don't, and it's sad to me. I wish so many people didn't marry for stupid ass reasons, for wanting to "try it out", instead of really wanting to make a lifelong commitment.

Humanity sucks sometimes =P

[Passions55]

Yes humanity truly does suck. Marriage as whole I feel has never been treated with the respect that it truly deserves in any time period. Like way back in the day when marriage between two people was nothing more than a political contract between two peope for land and assets or status, instead of it being treated as a spiritual pact. In some ways we have come a long way because now a days people at least can choose who the hell they want to marry. And its good that right now in our society it's not a taboo to get divorced like it was a couple of decades ago where the mentality was you stick it out no matter what. Problem is I think people are taken these new freedoms for granted and bailing out at the first sign of trouble. And I mentioned that some people have the mentality that "why get married it's only a piece of paper" are usually the same people who, when they want out of the relationship, are the first to say "yes, I can walk out, it's not like we're officially married" so the the the: "we live together so its just the same as being married", mentality only applies when it suits them, and are quick to deny that it has the same weight as marriage when they want a quick out.

However I don't want any one to think I'm anti-unmarried couples. I think there are plenty of couples who choose not to marry who are very mature and treat their relationship respectfully, who don't cop out just because.

I'm also one of the few catholics who don't believe you should stay married just because you have too. I think you should try to work things out and respect your marriage vows, but if you have a spouse that is mistreating you or being abusive or continuously unfaithful, then I don't think you should have to stay with him/her just because you have no choice. However if you are Catholic I think in case like the ones I've mentioned you can get your marriage annulled, and it would be legal in the church.

[Senshi_of_Vision]

I'm also one of the few catholics who don't believe you should stay married just because you have too. I think you should try to work things out and respect your marriage vows, but if you have a spouse that is mistreating you or being abusive or continuously unfaithful, then I don't think you should have to stay with him/her just because you have no choice. However if you are Catholic I think in case like the ones I've mentioned you can get your marriage annulled, and it would be legal in the church.

cool is that a new law now? cause I know some of the hardliners from both my and my ex's side were really upset by our divorce. And If I had know about that I could have told them about the repeat adultery thing and maybe shut them up. They really did not want to see the divorce go threw cause it was so evil in their minds. Funny thing is neither I nor my ex are catholic unless he reconverted, it was just his mom and a few of my aunts who are old school hardliners.

[Jeff]

Nope, Passions55 and Senshi_of_Vision, there is no such law in the Catholic Church. An annulment can only occur if canon lawyers determine that a valid marriage hasn't actually taken place (i.e., one of the spouses was married before). If you're an abused spouse, the Church would support separation but not divorce.

My dad's grandmother was beaten by my alcoholic great grandfather, but because of her beliefs she never divorced him. She left him but never sought divorce and only remarried after he died.

On the other side of the family, my grandparents (both raised Catholic) eloped in New Hampshire under a Justice of the Peace, and never had the marriage blessed by the Catholic Church. When two Catholics are not married in the Church, their marriage is considered invalid. So, as my great grandfather often pointed out (humorously I hope?), my mother is technically a "bastard."