Spanking

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Spanking

Post by Passions55 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:01 am

In this day and age of controversial beliefs on how and what is appropriate when disciplining your child, the topic of whether or not a parent should spank their child has inspired the most controversy.

So I was just wondering what every one else thought on the subject. Do you think spanking is OK or do you think its a hurtful and humiliating way to discipline your child?
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Post by MarioKnight » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:24 am

I'm personally all for spanking, there's only so much that you can do with only words. Spanking is a good middle ground that let's children know that you're the boss without actually hurting them. Next time they think about doing something against what their parent said or something that got them spanked before, they won't do it remembering what the spanking felt like. I wouldn't condone spanking in public, but in your own house, go for it.
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Post by Passions55 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:57 am

I don't condone spanking in public eighther, that's going over the line in my book. But I do think that spanking in general is alright, so long as you don't go over board. Some kids just don't respond well to "time out" or having certain privileges taken away and lectures succeed with varying degrees of effectiveness, so even though I think spanking should be given as a last resort, I'm not against it. To me a spanking should just be two or three swats on the clothed bottom of a standing child. I don't think there is any need to have to pull down a kids pants and spank them on their bare bottom, I think that right there is intrusive and demeaning to expose a child like that. But that my opinion.

Also I think that a spanking should be given behind closed doors, not in front of an audience of onlookers, and certainly not in front of peers. My little cousin is five and my Aunt spanked her in front of her playmates and they all started to taunt and laugh at her while it was happening and even worse after the fact. She didn't want to come out of her room after the incident and cried about. . So I think a spanking should be given with in reason.
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Post by Jeff » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:49 am

I am vehemently against spanking. I just don't believe (and scientific studies substantiate this) that it is effective. For one thing, it teaches children a horrible lesson: that violence is an acceptable way to deal with your problems. And secondly, it is very, very easy for a parent to lose control. Are they really spanking to "teach a lesson" or because they are emotionally exasperated?

I come from a family where physical punishment was the norm, gradually getting worse and worse into my teenage years when fists were being used and marks were being left. I won't go into detail, but physically asserting myself always seemed to make things much worse (which I started doing once I realized what was happening wasn't "okay"). Periods of emotional distress in my parents' lives always corresponded to more severe beatings.

My parents came from somewhat militant family environments and they grew up with physical punishments, even in school. But I don't believe that spanking is a tool of the effective disciplinarian parent. It never has to get to that level. Take a minute to think about what you are teaching your child.

Of course, I'm not anti-discipline or one of those "parents should be your best friend" people. I do actually think there is a (very limited) period for spanking, and that is with very young children who are doing something dangerous. If your 2 year old runs across the road, give them a quick hit. If you do it to your 6 year old, it's not going to work.

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Post by Neon Heart » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:23 am

I'm for spanking. If you're trying to tell your child what's wrong and what isn't, chances are they'll just zone out when you're trying to tell them anyway. If you want them to know they've done something wrong, then you just hve to discipline them! People always wonder why their kids turn out to be self righteous monsters who never listen to authority, who always expect to get what they want, who think they can do what they want... Gee, maybe that's because you don't discipline them in they way they're supposed to be disciplined.

If your kid doesn't need to be disciplined, more power to you. But if you have a child who is so used to thinking they can get whatever they want out of manipulation, or otherwise, then yes, spanking is a very good option. It doesn't matter to me how old the child is. If the child doesn't like being spanked, maybe they'll realize to keep out of trouble or not to be such a brat.

Though as hypocritical as this sounds, I don't think the discipline should go as far as slapping the face, or hitting the child with extreme force. That to me constitutes as abuse. I think child discipline may be causing some controversy because quite a few parents don't know their limit to disciplining their child. And believe me, I've seen it get ugly...
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Post by Jeff » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:48 am

Um, there are plenty of ways to discipline a child without hitting them.

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Post by Butterscotch » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:32 am

I'm for an occasional spanking. Sometimes a few swats on the tush, or the mere mention of a spanking is enough to get kids to behave. But it should be more of a last resort sort of punishment rather than a regular form of discipline. Usually, other forms of discipline are more effective

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Post by Neon Heart » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:55 am

Jeff wrote:Um, there are plenty of ways to discipline a child without hitting them.
And sometimes other methods of discipline don't work.
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Post by Passions55 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:23 am

Neon Heart wrote:
It doesn't matter to me how old the child is. If the child doesn't like being spanked, maybe they'll realize to keep out of trouble or not to be such a brat.
now this I vehemently disagree with. I think there should be an age limit on when to stop spanking as as form of discipline or punishment. I think by the first or second grade spankings should be become less and less frequent. Personally I don't think parents should be using spanking at all by the time they are in the fifth grade or in Junior high. By that time the a kid should have gained some more maturity and should be treated with a bit more dignity. By that age I think kids respond more to having their privileges and freedoms taken away and a swat on the ass would just make them feel humiliated even is in private.

By this point kids have more of a sense of awareness of themselves and their social standing and have developed the ability to feel embarrassed by out side influences. By this age I think a kid needs to be able to feel that they have control over their personal surroundings and not feel threatened that they are going to suffer an indignity. If you are still using spanking as a method to discipline/punish your 10--14 year old, than that is very sad. I never under stood the whole the "if you act like a child then you'll be treated like one" . You want them to stop acting like children...so you do this by treating them like children :? I don't see the logic in that. I know others will read what I've said and roll their eyes and be like "that's a load of bull shit" but just think back to when you where in that age group would you have appreciated getting spanked? I think spanking should be a method of discipline for only the younger kids that are not even in school yet so they learn early on right from wrong.
Are they really spanking to "teach a lesson" or because they are emotionally exasperated?
good question. Some times its hard to tell what motivates a parent to spank if they are mearly frightened that their child placed them self in danger when they disobeyed them? Are they just trying to assert their dominance over the kid "I'm the parent your the child " or are they merely angry and in order to gain control of the situation they resort to spanking for quick results? What emotional level should the parent be in when they spank? If you are angry do think you'll go over board?
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Post by Jeff » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:16 pm

Neon Heart wrote:
Jeff wrote:Um, there are plenty of ways to discipline a child without hitting them.
And sometimes other methods of discipline don't work.
I know this is a controversial topic so I'll just say ahead of time that nobody should take anything I say in this thread as an attack on their beliefs or parenting skills.

But, I think that might be a great excuse for parents who are being lazy. It's a lot easier, and emotionally satisfying, to hit your child than to take something away from them, use verbal discipline, etcetera.

TV's Nanny 911 and The Supernanny both show lots of effective forms of discipline that don't involve violence.

It always seemed to me that the most well-behaved children weren't hit, but were held to strict standards, and the kids who were really out of control were hit but in general there was little responsibility given to them.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:49 pm

Sigh this is a very controversial topic, I will confess that when all else fails I will swat my sons bottom. But some people fail to realize especially if they are not parents themselves or do not have 24 hour care of a child that there is no one right way to rear a child. Some people can use non hitting approaches with kids, I know that sometimes all it takes is a look to get my son in line. But then there are times, especially now that he is a toddler that it takes more then a "Time out" or taking away his favorite toy. some kids do have temper issues, my son is 3 foot 1 and almost 50 lbs so hes a big boy sometimes you can take something from him and he tries and gets it back. Is that an excuse to spank his behind to some no. But I feel that as long as discipline does not become abuse then a parent should feel free to reign their children in as they see fit.

Now ive seen people who had blantantly abused their rights as parents, and as a child who was yelled at cussed at and beat I try to use spanking as a last resort. When I was younger I would say "Id never hit my kid" it was a great ideal but unrealistic as a parent now. There is no such thing as perfection especially in parenting. Your not going to always have "Mommy or Daddies little angel" and sometimes its tough I think I cry everytime Ive had to spank my son and I can still count that many times on one hand but I know its neccessary. I do not ask for anyone to condone what I do but I just wanted to put here that some parents dont just use it as an only means of discipline and that sometimes it truly is neccessary to have to use a spank when words and taking things cannot help.
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Post by the*blue*girl » Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:04 pm

I'm a bit torn on this subject. On one hand, I think spanking is ineffective and emotionally damaging.

My dad spanked me from a very young age, and as a result, I started rebelling against my parents when I was around 5 or 6. When he came at me with a shoe to hit me, I'd scream bloody murder loud enough for neighboors to hear, kick him in the balls, throw things, barricade myself in the nearest room, hide under furniture for hours, ect, anything to not get hit. I sound like a total brat, but really I was scared. Children don't like feeling powerless or cornered, just like adults. To a 4 year old girl, a big man who hits hard and screams and chases her around to try and hit her, even if it's just on the butt, is absolutly terrifying. I can't really describe the kinds of feelings I remember when I crawled under a couch because I was terrifyed of being spanked. This is going to sound ridiculous, but just remembering it now is still really upseting, so it's not something I usually talk about. And it wasn't like he abused me or beat me. He would just scream and spank and scream some more. To an adult, it may not seem like much, but to a small child, it can be emotionally damaging.

That's part of the reason why my relationship with my dad is bad now, to put it simply. It's been bad ever since I started defending myself against him when I was little. And when I got a little older, around 8ish, I started purposly disobeying him to make him lose his temper and try to spank me, just so I could fight back and show him that he couldn't control me. He stopped spanking me when I was about 10. So not only was spanking me emotionally damaging, but it was also ineffective.

I'd like to say that I will never spank my children, but being raised with spanking as a punishment has made me hot tempered, and when I lose my temper I strike out. I've hit my little sister, hit my friends, hurt myself, said things to people that hurt them, ect. I'm not going to blame it all on spanking, but what I'm saying is being exposed to violence at a young age has made me more prone to violence now.

Now, I'm aware that plenty of kids wouldn't react to spanking the way I did. My nature has always been both rebellious and sensitive, but I know the there are kids who will just take a smack and behave next time. That's why I'm not completly against spanking. If your kid does something bratty, I can see why swatting them across the butt might change their minds about doing it again. But I think telling them what they did wrong might be more effective. Like, when I was really little, some times I dserved it, like mouthing off to my mom. But when I was really little, I didn't know I deserved it. I just knew that I'd get spanked when my dad got mad. He never told me WHY he was mad. It wasn't until I was a little older that I figured out for myself what I was doing wrong. In other cases, I can totally see why spanking might be useful. Like if it's an older kid, and they KNOW they're misbehaving, and they're acting all bratty or throwing a tantrum. But parents also need to consider, how do I put this, how they're spanking their kids. Like, screaming and chasing them and cornering them will scare them.
Are they really spanking to "teach a lesson" or because they are emotionally exasperated?
That's kinda what I'm saying. Spanking your kid just because you're upset about what they did, as oposed to spanking them because they need to be disciplened. It just hurts the child, and teaches them that when they are angry they can hit too.

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Post by Queen Of Hearts » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:09 pm

I'm for moderate spankings. Because even as a child, it got to the point where it left brusies and it hurts alot. And now by baby siblings, who are both 5 and 6 (and have autisim) now see that Mommy and Daddy spank them, so now they hit eachother.

Also I belive Spankings are somthing to be done in private. Not infront of strangers, or even family members. This one time my parents found out I got a F in one class, by Dad marched down to the school and spanked me infront of everyone. I was in the 5th grade.

I agree with the*blue*girl, it can be absolutely terrifying somtimes. And also, many people don't know how to control their anger, and may end up hurting their child in serious ways. Whenever my parents threatened to spank me, I got on my hands and kneeds and cried for them not too.

I also belive it should be used only as a last resort and NOT for every little thing. I think you should start a child off with a warning or 2, then punishment then spankings. If you jump right into it, the child might not even know what he is doing wrong, or may not fear them at all after a certain point.
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Post by Jeff » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:08 pm

the*blue*girl wrote: I'd like to say that I will never spank my children, but being raised with spanking as a punishment has made me hot tempered, and when I lose my temper I strike out. I've hit my little sister, hit my friends, hurt myself, said things to people that hurt them, ect. I'm not going to blame it all on spanking, but what I'm saying is being exposed to violence at a young age has made me more prone to violence now.
I agree that growing up with parents who are violent can make a child prone to the same behavior. After all, we model our parents. And of course it doesn't affect everyone in the same way, but I now have a brother who really can't handle any problem without violence, even if it's not directed towards a person (punching holes in walls and doors). This a directly learned behavior.

And I see the same things in my parents. When they get angry, things are broken, objects are thrown at other people. They just have no idea how to deal with their anger constructively.

I kind of realize, though, that maybe I am biased because of my background. My parents have apologized to my brother and I for all the hitting they did and said it was just how they were raised. So I haven't ever really seen the controlled kind of spanking discussed in this thread, although I'm not sure it actually exists.

Another thing is, I can't even imagine hitting a child to cause them pain. It seems so contrary to the parental role. How hard are you supposed to hit? What's the standard?

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:03 pm

Well for my case specially since my son is still so young I dont think anything more then two quick swats on the behind is needed. In the times Ive had to use spanking thats all it took. Trust me I know how awful it is to get a beating, I dont even like the looks of big leather belts because of it. And I do not condone smaking children in the face or any other hard hitting of kids. I personally think a spank on the bottom is enough. But its as I said earlier everyones situation is different and spanking is a learned mentality some people dont even realize as they spank their kids that they are doing the same harm that came to them as kids. It can be really hard to break that kinda cycle for some. Its why I try my hardest to use it only when absolutely neccessary.
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Post by NameGoesHere » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:06 pm

I'm personally against spanking. The best argument I've heard for it is that sometimes other discipline doesn't work. But what if a few swats don't work, either? Do you spank them more? Do you spank them harder? If things continue to not work, how far do you go?

Nine times out of ten, the parents I see spanking their children look very frustrated. That is not the kind of mindset to be in before exerting force on a child. I have seen "controlled spanking" on a few occasions, but it's usually the "I'm getting sick of this, so shut up already" kind of spanking.

I could be totally wrong on this — I'm not a mother, and I probably wouldn't make a good one — but I think that there's always some sort of creative alternative to spanking.
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Post by Tiff » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:12 pm

I have two things to say on this topic:

1) The use of fists and objects is NOT SPANKING. That is BEATING. We need to clarify that here and now. Spanking should be no more than a swat or two to the bottom with the palm of your hand, and it shouldn't be used past a certain age (I'd say around 9 or 10, when puberty begins).

2) As a teacher, I can clearly say that sometimes, certain forms of discipline DO NOT WORK. Trust me, we have to try every kind with the many different kids we teach. Parents have it the same way. When spanking in school swas legal two years ago (it just became illegal in Texas recently), there were times when I could do nothing else with a child, and all it took was a swat to the bottom from the principal, and he/she was fine. They weren't traumatized, and by the end of the day, they were smiling and hugging me, the same old child.

The discipline methods we see on Nanny 911 and Supernanny ARE great...but again, not always effective.

Joe and I both plan to spank when necessary, but only when necessary. You have to pick you battles. You can't spank a child for every little thing...it not only becomes ineffective, but it becomes more a form of random violence than a form of discipline. You don't spank a toddler for spilling his juice on yoru white rug, for example. When the toddler is hitting you, spitting on you, etc, then it is perfectly acceptable IF the other methods you've tried don't work.

I was only really spanked once as a child, and boy did I deserve it. It worked, and I never did what I did again. I wasn't traumatized, or afraid of my Dad afterwards. I cried a bit, took a nap, and I was fine.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:23 pm

Thank you Tiff exactly that is how I feel about the situation, you shouldnt spank a kid for stuff out of their control Ie spills and accidents. But when your precious toddler decides during a meltdown to do something horrible, like lash out at other kids, hit grandma, harm something like a pet. Time out just wont work, and no my kid isnt that terrible but ive seen some really horrible kids out there that I think in the back of my mind I hope their parents take them somewhere private and give their behinds a swat.

To me there is still a line between discipline and abuse, and the main difference is those who are just trying to discipline their children get no joy or glee from it. They try to use it only when neccessary and it still kills them. Anyone who "Beats" as Tiff puts it correctly their kids to me are out to do damage to their kids. And there is a huge difference between beating and spanking at least in my thoughts. One is violent and used to break ones will, the other is a form of trying to teach your kids right from wrong unfortunately in the wrong hands discipline at times becomes abuse and its sad.
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Post by NameGoesHere » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:17 pm

You see, I wouldn't have a problem with spanking if everybody did it like that, Tiff. Problem is, I see most parents doing it wrong. It may just be the area where I live, but just about every time I see a parent "spank" a child in public, it looks like they're trying harder to leave bruises than they are trying to teach a valuable lesson.
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Post by Gamer8585 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:14 pm

Interesting topic. Personally I'm of the opinion that spanking should only be used as a last resort and only for the most heinous of crimes a child would normally commit (harming animals or elderly people, starting fires, bullying other kids, etc.)

It should be done clothed, in private, with an open hand, and the parent should have the same attitude as if he/she were smacking a friend upside the head for doing something stupid. Also its very important that the child be fully aware of why he/she is getting spanked so the lesson sticks and there is a sense of fairness behind it.

In the interest of full discloser my parents never spanked me. I was taught right from wrong at a young age and respect for my parents. Plus I was never very social so I was somewhat isolated from the peer groups which normally cause children to rebel.

In the end I guess it comes down to the fact that all children are different. They are shaped by genetics, neurology, and circumstance. Some kids seem to need to be beaten within an inch of their life to stay on the straight and narrow, but with others even an angry look from a parent will make the kid need years of therapy when they grow up.

Most problems with children probably start at a very young age. If the parents are around their children allot from birth then the child will feel that their parents care for and love them. However if the parents aren't around (because they have to work, or irresponsibly go out and party) the child may feel the need to get his/her parents attention, and the only way to do that is act out since most parents feel a huge responsibility to discipline their child. The child gets the attention, but doesn't care whether its good or bad, however since the "attention" stops the child is left wanting more. This leads to escalation, and eventually self destructive behavior, from the child as he/she continues to search for that sense of love that had been missing from their heart. Because all the child knows is that mommy/daddy only gives them attention (a feeling the child equated with love at a very young age) when they act out, and because the child knows that everything he/she has done so far has been hollow (the sense of love disappears), the child will continue taking acting out to the extremes, until he/she is prevented by an outside force or death.

Other times the problem lies not with the child, but with the parents. Some people don't know how to properly discipline their child, especially when they get a little older and start to get rambunctious. So they resort to spanking and in too many cases it leads to acts of physical abuse.

So, to reiterate, keep spanking reserved for only really serious things. If/when it becomes necessary, do it in private with the child's clothes on, and only a few open-handed swats to the bottom with the child knowing full well what line had been crossed. Remember the idea is to give the child a sense of boundries and appropriate consequences for crossing certain lines. It is not for keeping a child in a constant state of fear so that they will obey without question.

Sorry for the length of this rant.
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