Todays social standards

[Senshi_of_Vision]

I wanted to start this thread last night after the whole topic of Maturity came up in the Bratz thread. But I decided to take some time think about what I wanted this topic to focus on and give people time who were involved in the posts to cool down as well. I hope the Moderators do not mind this topic, thought Dan did put in a post that if we wanted to have such a discussion in another thread to make one. Note I am not making this thread to start a war on younger forum members or even to rate ones maturity. This is more of what I feel is going wrong with society and its standards and why I was a bit upset with reading comments from another forum memember in the Bratz section.


To me it just seems to make no sense that now adays kids are being exposed to more and more mature things at earlier ages. Or that because of this they feel pressured to behave and act in certain ways. To me its psychologically damaging to expose kids to mature topics in movies and tv especially before pre adolensence simply because they are still children until they are 18. It gives them mixed signals in my opinion as well, you cannot allow a kid to watch mature content, dress certain ways, and wear makeup before 16 and not expect them to want to be treated like they are older.


I guess its because I am nearly 3 decades old now that I just see society in a whole drastically changed. Im not saying the decade I was born in was a time of innocence, believe me the 70s were one of the most decandent, their were drugs and sex and violence, but for the most part it was kept away from alot of kids. Many kids my age were sheltered from stuff like that even growing up in Ny. And while I did get exposed to some things at an early age that other kids may not have, it was not even a drop in the bucket to what is mainstream now adays. Even in cartoons aimed at kids under 10 you can have adult references, Ive seen some myself and while I get a laugh from it, I do not think its proper for a 6 or 7 year old to hear at times. Ths also goes for a lot of mainstream movies as well, I know they do this so that parents are not bored watching it as well but it shouldnt be that way. I dont see whats wrong with letting kids be kids, and making a movie for kids that still kiddie. When I was younger their were movies that were just G like rainbow brite and the care bears, shows where mature topics did not come up because they were not needed. And while some movies like this are still around to a certain extent I see more and more movies that are aimed at little kids but have darker and more adolensent and adult appeal to them.


People wonder why the talk shows are full of 10-17 year olds who mouth off to their parents, run around talking about wanting to be pregnant and blantantly disrespecting their elders, well when you got constant adult things shoved in your face what do they expect? Some say well if they have decent parents this wont happen, but even a really strict parent cannot shelter their kids forever, things are out there, in schools heck its even affecting places like Amish settlements. It just truly seems that we are rapidly becoming a culture that wants people to age before their time.


I said it before and I stick by my comment when you are allowed to enjoy a childhood it makes you appreciate being an adult more. I did not have an easy child hood and I dont want to get too personal but I had to grow up way before I needed to because of my family situation. I guess because of that I still cherish my life before I turned 13 because after that I took on the role of being a semi parent to my siblings while my mom worked and made ends meet. So it truly bothers me when teen girls who should not have a care in the world are striving to be older run around with men, drink have kids (which no matter what age you are is never going to be easy) and just behave older then they are. Im sure other of you will have strong opinions on this and I hope this thread can be handled without petty insult thrown. I just wanted to get out what I felt was a growing problem in society and standards in society now adays. And Im glad this forums has a section where a topic like this can be placed.


And I really want to stress this, though this topic was fueled by comments in another thread this is not a personal attack on anyone it is just my opinion.

[Rin]

I really hate the fact that children are being exposed to more adult things now a days.

A few years ago a few of my second cousing who were about in the fourth and fifth grades were excited about going to a Britney Spears concert! When I was in the fifth grade I had to desire to even go to a concert and didn't really until I was about seventeen. And Britney Spears of all people...

I don't understand why kids just can't be kids. They have their whole lives to be adults and childhood is probably the best part of your life. Why waste it trying to be an adult?

What I really can't stand is when children and young teenagers think they are mature when it suits them. They are mature enough to go see a rated R movie, drink at a party, have sex, get their driver's liceness, but when something serious comes up, illness in the family, pregnancy, paying bills, committment, someone needing help, suddenly they're "too young". If you wanted to be treated like an adult, take the whole package. Yeah and anyone who thinks they are mature probably isn't. XD

[denizenofevil]

I agree with you guys. When i was 12, which was about 4 years ago, I still played with stuffed animals (I didn't play with barbies) and now, i see all these new preteens saying that they're too cool for that kind of stuff. That's probably why i don't get along with preteens-they think they're my age. It's ridiculous! Kids don't realize that you only have 12 years to be a kid, 5 years to be a teenager, and then about 50 years to be an adult. What's the rush?

[Queen Of Hearts]

._. Oi....I have a odd feeling people are going to disagree with me and gang up on me and such but *shrug* Whatever..

I find it ironic that people say this, especially those of the older genration ( I'm alking 40's and 50's). My parents talk about how much responisbility they had, and howI should be acitng more "adult" and how back in they day "when they where 12 they had a job" and such and such.
And then, they turn around and say "Too young for this" or "not old enough yet!". My brain works in odd ways and I honestly belive that I'm the only one who sees the hypococy in that but...moving on.

Honestly when I was first going into Middle shchool (Arought 11 ish) I sold all my toys and gave some to my baby sister. I dind;t play with them anymore. And when you think about it this way, isn;t it alittle odd of a 12 to be playing with toys targeted with little girls aged 6-8 or even younger..? There are plently of toys targeted to older kids but toys like barbies just...get old after while. When I was around 5... I had over 160 barbies. Then I wanted Bratz and then Plly Pockets. After that, nothing intereted me, I'd already played with toys enough.I instead went on the computer and played computer games. That is what kids of the "Me" generation does now. I don;t mean to sound rude or anything, but alot has changed in the past 10 years...I didn't save my butt there either...

few years ago a few of my second cousing who were about in the fourth and fifth grades were excited about going to a Britney Spears concert! When I was in the fifth grade I had to desire to even go to a concert and didn't really until I was about seventeen. And Britney Spears of all people...

The fact that it was a briney concert ugs me, I however went to my first concert when I was in the 3rd grade. It was a Cher concet and my Mom took me cause I liked Cher and still do. I honestly don't see why some concerts can't be for kids (Well the upper ages like 5-8th grade). Some aren't that bad at all (I'm not talking about hard rock and mosh pit concerts >.> I'm tlaking abot nice joyfull ones ^.^)

Oi...my absoutly craptacuaalr .02

[Senshi_of_Vision]

Its the mentallity of so many this day and age, and believe me I jokingly say this to family and friends but seriously after I hit 16 it seemed to be a blur and bam now im only a few weeks away from being 30. And it just amazes me what passes for the norm for kids today that would never have flied for kids when I was growing up. What ever happened to adult situations being for adults? And shows marketed to pre teens specially the dramas to me are close to soft core adult movies lately. I

just dont get it and its like Rin said its funny how alot of teens will throw up that they can be adults for the wrong situations, when being an adult isnt about fun or being able to wear what you want or do everything you want. I sure as heck wish it was like that cause paying bills, that would cease. Worrying about world issues, protecting my family..who needs all that when I can be a teens version of an adult who gets to smoke, and drink and not have a true care in the world. then if people get mad I can fall back and say hey im still too young to deal with tough stuff.

I know my comment will seem once again to target all younger folks but its not, I know plenty of young men and women who are responsible, have to deal with tough situations but still understand they are kids. My annoyance is with the ones who want to be grown up so quickly and tend to think its being able to watch adult movies, drink or have sex early or worst having babies. None of those things make a person mature if they are doing it to prove so. I'll never understand how getting drunk or risking an std or saddling yourself down with a kid while your still one yourself = mature to anyone. But its a growing trend nowadays and its sad to me.


And the thing that really bothers me is many refuse to understand that you only get one true chance at childhood, then before you know it its over and unless you have someone willing to take care and put up with you the rest of your life, your going to have to buckle down really grow up and take on alot of responsibilities. So many are afraid to be called immature or not be "In" that they forgo a important portion of their lives to behave older.

If I knew what I know now back when I was younger I definately would have held on to my childhood abit longer. though I will admit right now I enjoy alot of kiddie type things cause im basically trying to guide my kid threw life. And I only hope I can teach him to appreciate all he can while hes young and doesnt have worries and responsibilities to think about. And im going to do my best to make sure he understands what being an adult really is about.

[the*blue*girl]

What I really can't stand is when children and young teenagers think they are mature when it suits them. They are mature enough to go see a rated R movie, drink at a party, have sex, get their driver's liceness, but when something serious comes up, illness in the family, pregnancy, paying bills, committment, someone needing help, suddenly they're "too young". If you wanted to be treated like an adult, take the whole package. Yeah and anyone who thinks they are mature probably isn't. XD

While you make an excellent point there, I have to point out that there is a bit of a double standard. Like Queen Of Hearts said, parents will tell you to be mature, but at the same time tell you not to grow up too fast. For instance, I'm considered mature enough to go find a job, help my mom with running the house, watch my little sister and her friends, ect, but I'm not trusted to go to a simple movie on Friday nights with my friends. So am I a responsible young adult, or a stupid teen who can't be trusted? Sometimes it seems like parents can't decide whether to treat us like kids or adults, so how can we know which to act like?

[Senshi_of_Vision]

While you make an excellent point there, I have to point out that there is a bit of a double standard. Like Queen Of Hearts said, parents will tell you to be mature, but at the same time tell you not to grow up too fast. For instance, I'm considered mature enough to go find a job, help my mom with running the house, watch my little sister and her friends, ect, but I'm not trusted to go to a simple movie on Friday nights with my friends. So am I a responsible young adult, or a stupid teen who can't be trusted? Sometimes it seems like parents can't decide whether to treat us like kids or adults, so how can we know which to act like?

That is a valid point it can be hard to be a teen who shows responsibilty yet has to deal with the fact that your not considered mature. But in the cases you point out I think its more of your parents trying to teach responsibility. when I was 14 I had to go and get my working papers and get a job that summer so that I learned how to earn a living and pay bills. I still wasnt considered an adult but I learned things that help me now as an adult. I learned the value of a dollar from it as well.

Im not saying its rough being a teen can really suck when you feel like you should be treated with more respect from others and dont get it no matter how hard you work. I just think my problem is with the teens who dont try being responsible who arent out there working and taking care of siblings. who think its mature to dress like tramps, or use and beat up women, sell or do drugs or drink.

Ive said it before many teens are put into situations where they have to behave older then they are which sucks but alot of them understand that they are still young the responsibilities they take on shape them into productive adults IMO.

[Jeff]

Queen of Hearts and The Blue Girl - since you are mature, you should be able understand the idea that teenagers - particularly younger teenagers such as yourselves - are ready for some responsibilities, but not the whole package. The fact is that you need guidance. Maturity isn't something you attain by being intelligent or telling others you have it; it's demonstrated by fulfilling your obligations as set out by your family.

I am not a whole lot older than either of you, so maybe you will believe me when I say I know what it's like. I was absolutely convinced that I had it all figured out, and I saw the hypocrisies of the adult world and I thought I was "mature." But I was actually just a whiny teenager. There could be a million good reasons why your mother might not let you go to a theatre alone on a Friday night, but whether you think her reasons are good or not is irrelevant - she's your mother, and you're 15.

Believe me, you are lucky you have a parent who actually cares about what you're doing on the weekends.

[Cardcaptor Takato]

In some ways I agree with the opening post but in other ways I disagree. I do agree that kids should be kids and shouldn't be concerned with things like fashion or appearances or making sure they have the hottest boyfriend at school and I think Bratz and Britney Spears are appalling. However, at the same time just because kids should be kids I don't think that's an excuse to turn television into a babysitter. There are some issues I agree that children should never be exposed to. Things like graphic violence and sex I don't think kids should ever have to face. But then I also think there are some issues that you just have to talk to kids about, that you just can't dance around because you want somebody else to do the job for you. Things like when a family member dies, I don't think people should try to pretend to the kid that nothing has happened and everything is the same as before just because they want them to stay a kid. That's just going to make the kid more confused. Instead I think you should try to help the child understand what happened to the deceased family member at a level they can understand. Like how when my grandfather died, one of my little cousins asked at the funeral where my grandfather was and they explained to him that he went to be with the Lord. I thought that was a reasonable explanation to tell my cousin what happened to him at a level he could understand but still stay a kid without trying to hide the fact that my grandfather is no longer here with us.

On the flip side, my parents are very homophobic people. They like to criticize homosexuals just because of their religious beliefs. My mother refuses to watch any TV show or movie that has any homosexuality in it and she even once commented that she would run all the gays out of town if she could. My parents tried to hide homosexuality from me during my childhood. Not once did they ever talk about that issue with me and the closest they ever came to giving me the "talk" was asking me if I knew about the birds and the bees. I said "uh, yes?" and then they just moved on and changed the subject. Our school didn't teach us sex ed. until I was in eight grade and even then all they taught us was "abstinence, abstinence, abstinence!" The majority of what I learned about sex I had to learn on my own through the Internet and other sources. I'm 22 now and everything my parents did to hide the real world from me was a wasted effort because I ended up liking other guys anyway. I'm not saying my parents were bad for trying to raise me the best way they knew how or that I somehow think I'm more mature than them. And I still agree that there are some things children shouldn't be exposed to at a certain age. But I think you can't hide everything from children, either. I think that if kids don't somehow learn about certain issues, they're not going to know how to react to these issues when they go out in the real world because they were totally sheltered from it. Or maybe I'm just still pissed at DiC for screwing up Sailor Moon for us because they thought American kids were too stupid to handle it. And darker themes in children's stories isn't anything new. They've been around for ages. Just look at most of the fairytales you probably grew up with. Those can be some of the most gruesome stories out there even though they were written for children. I have to admit I was shocked with how violent The Wizard Of Oz novel was when I first read it even though it was written for children in 1900. And at the end of the original fairytale of The Little Mermaid, the mermaid dies to sacrifice her life to save the prince instead of killing him to save her own.

[Senshi_of_Vision]

its one thing to overprotect kids from things and I agree and ive noticed that kids who are over sheltered fair just as bad as kids are over exposed cause ignorance runs both ways in that situation. But its a hard issue, alot of people from my generation and back were taught really conservative views about talking about sex and the like. In fact I can sum up the sex talk I got from my mother "Do it and I'll kill you" its not easy to try to teach your kids about things that society makes taboo even if your an adult. Many parents think they are protecting kids by keeping stuff from them and thats not the case either. I dont defend those who blantantly keep their kids in the dark on things I just know I can understand some reasoning behind it specially now adays, there is just so much more out there to want to shield a kid from.

Though I do agree with you CardCaptor a child should be talked to on serious topics like death. I still cannot handle the subject well even at my age because the way my family would cover up things. I seen death face on when I was a child and because of my age my family played the "oh you didnt really see that" instead of letting me talk about it, repression of it led to problems for me later on in life. I wish there was an easy way to raise a kid but there isnt and until a medium comes where they can be raised to understand and handle adult things better parents are going to seem hypocritical in their choices.

[peachvampiress]

Now to give you a Canadian perspective about kids/young teens seeing inappropiate stuff. When it comes to T.V. and movies, Canada has the most lax and ridiculous rating systems. We still have G and PG, but instead of PG-13 we have 14+, R is 18+, and NC-17 is R. Do you know how many movies I've personally seen at the theatre have either 18+ or R? Sin City. That's it. 300 may have had an 18+, but I don't remember. Nine times out of ten, if it got an R rating in America, it's 14+(PG-13) here. Wedding Crashers, Hostel, Disturbia, The Omen, every horror movie from the last few years all got 14+. And it's funny watching people bring this up on imdb, because there's always a bunch of 12 year olds bitch that "so what, kids see worse at school and on the playground"......what playgrounds are people talking about when they bring this up? And even ignoring the whole "what's appropraite for kids" debate, I have a problem with kids seeing an adult movie that got a lenient rating because when I go to see an adult movie, I don't want to have to put up with stupid kids who could get in without parents talking, yelling and text messaging through the entire thing.

Our DVD ratings are a joke as well. I kid you not, my uncut Sopranos DVDs are rated 14+. Same with South Park (both the seasons and the movie).

TV ratings are bit more practical, although I'll admit I think there's something wrong when you're airing uncut swearing and violence at 10am, one channel away from the preschool network. The Food Network's fun though because a bunch of the shows are 18+ thanks to them airing uncut episodes of Hell's Kitchen and Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmare's three times a day.

[Senshi_of_Vision]

Our DVD ratings are a joke as well. I kid you not, my uncut Sopranos DVDs are rated 14+. Same with South Park (both the seasons and the movie).

Wow call me oldfashion but I cannot imagine letting a 14 year old watch the sopranos uncut or otherwise. I know that their are cartoons out there that are as violent but the subjects that show deals with...ugh man thats just messed up. And as far as the playground comment if it was adults talking about it thats one thing but the thought of young kids talking on such material or even being witness to it is disturbing.

[Jeff]

I kid you not, my uncut Sopranos DVDs are rated 14+. Same with South Park (both the seasons and the movie).

LMFAO, the Sailor Moon ADV boxsets are rated 14+.

[peachvampiress]

Jeff

LMFAO, the Sailor Moon ADV boxsets are rated 14+.

......thinking about Sailor Moon and Tony Soprano at the same time just broke my brain $20 bucks says there's an insane fanfic writer who has done a crossover fic of the two.

This was most likely a computer error, but one time I bought a Sailor Moon DVD from Wal-Mart that they had on sale for $6. When the cashier rang it through, this alarm went off and she asked me if I was over 18. Apparently no one under 18 could buy it. Ironically it was this one which IMO has the most kiddiest, girliest cover out of them all. We were both like "0____o? WTF?"

[Sailormars Obsessed fan]

Jeff

LMFAO, the Sailor Moon ADV boxsets are rated 14+.

......thinking about Sailor Moon and Tony Soprano at the same time just broke my brain $20 bucks says there's an insane fanfic writer who has done a crossover fic of the two.

This was most likely a computer error, but one time I bought a Sailor Moon DVD from Wal-Mart that they had on sale for $6. When the cashier rang it through, this alarm went off and she asked me if I was over 18. Apparently no one under 18 could buy it. Ironically it was this one which IMO has the most kiddiest, girliest cover out of them all. We were both like "0____o? WTF?"

lol 18 to buy sailormoon? Thats a laugh but then this is the same country that will show brutal murders on tv and not react but all rush to cover peoples eyes when we see a topless woman.

[peachvampiress]

Sailormars Obsessed fan

lol 18 to buy sailormoon? Thats a laugh but then this is the same country that will show brutal murders on tv and not react but all rush to cover peoples eyes when we see a topless woman.

A.) I live in Canada where people don't seem to have a problem showing brutal murders and nudity at all hours of the day *coughShowCasecough*

B.) I said it was most likely a computer error.

[Queen Of Hearts]

Queen of Hearts and The Blue Girl - since you are mature, you should be able understand the idea that teenagers - particularly younger teenagers such as yourselves - are ready for some responsibilities, but not the whole package. The fact is that you need guidance. Maturity isn't something you attain by being intelligent or telling others you have it; it's demonstrated by fulfilling your obligations as set out by your family.

That I have to disagre with- Using the*blue*girl's example, she stares that she is concidered Maure enough to get a jon, whoch on its own is a sign of making it on your own, and babysitting, which basicly makes you the temporary parent in that situation. But, she also states she coun't be trusted to go to the movies alone on a friday, which I don't see how this could be heald as a bigger respnsibilty over the others.

(Anthough that wouldn't happen here...if your under 17 you con't come to the movies alone without your parent on friday, saturday or sunday and that isn turne dto full time on summber vacation >.>)

[SeiUsa]

Those who parade around saying, "I'm mature!" are doing just the opposite. If you do that you're basically saying, "I'm immature and I think I know everything!" I think those who can at least admit that they aren't mature enough to do something (like sex) are taken one step closer to maturity.

And twelve-year-olds too old for dolls? Pfft. It's just ridiculous. Looky what I had for my twelfth birthday. ^^

[Queen Of Hearts]

Those who parade around saying, "I'm mature!" are doing just the opposite. If you do that you're basically saying, "I'm immature and I think I know everything!" I think those who can at least admit that they aren't mature enough to do something (like sex) are taken one step closer to maturity.

And twelve-year-olds too old for dolls? Pfft. It's just ridiculous. Looky what I had for my twelfth birthday. ^^

I meant like barbies n'stuff like that....Hell I got a doll for my 12th brithday too (Or was it 13...I cant remeber...) And I shall call her Mini-me

[Jeff]

Using the*blue*girl's example, she stares that she is concidered Maure enough to get a jon, whoch on its own is a sign of making it on your own, and babysitting, which basicly makes you the temporary parent in that situation. But, she also states she coun't be trusted to go to the movies alone on a friday, which I don't see how this could be heald as a bigger respnsibilty over the others.

No... no, it's not. It's babysitting, and adolescent girls have been doing it for ages. It doesn't mean they can "make it on their own" or "be a parent."