Massacre on Virginia Tech Campus

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Post by Kohdok » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:55 pm

Tiff wrote:or the person who "wore black and listened to marilyn manson all the time."
Eh? Am I at risk?! I must admit I have been sent to a shrink, a couple of times, and after hours of paper scantron tests asking about "Voices in my head", I was told I was not the kind of person to go on a killing spree. Well, seeing as I answered "No" to the statement: "I have voices in my head named 'Al' and 'Ebert'", I'm pretty sure that was true. I was sent because someone accused me of saying "I'm gonna kill you" in casual conversation at school. I knew who it was, too, despite the school keeping it anonymous. By the way, probably one of the only questions I answered "Yes" to was "I don't have voices in my head."

That's another problem I find is that a lot of shrinks are hacks. It's just as easy to fool a paper test as it is to administer one, and a lot of the people who have something wrong with them tend to not be put into that mindset by a paper test.

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Post by Tiff » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:45 am

Gamer8585 wrote:
Unfortunatly, in this case the guy was in college, so there is little the school can force him to do until he commits a crime. Also, they can't talk to the parents due to privacy issues. I heard that one of his English teachers reported his writings to the administration, but their hands were pretty much tied.

Its really a catch 22. If they were to enact measures that would force people to go to counseling for what they write or their lifestyle, people would stop coming to the university, but if they don't then tragedies like this will keep happening.

Hell, its hard enough to do that in public school. If kids start getting sent to the school shrink for being different, they may be ostracized and alienated by their peers, it may even lead to lawsuits by parents.
that's exactly my point. It's a "damned if you do, damned ifyou don't" sort of situation, and until the day comes that we have the ability to crawl inside an individual's head and PREDICT when someone's going to snap, it's basically unavoidable in the long run.

And you're 100% right. Even public school teachers can't start blabbing things about their students without making sur ethey're within legal boundaries and aren't going to offend some high strung parent.
Eh? Am I at risk?! I must admit I have been sent to a shrink, a couple of times, and after hours of paper scantron tests asking about "Voices in my head", I was told I was not the kind of person to go on a killing spree. Well, seeing as I answered "No" to the statement: "I have voices in my head named 'Al' and 'Ebert'", I'm pretty sure that was true. I was sent because someone accused me of saying "I'm gonna kill you" in casual conversation at school. I knew who it was, too, despite the school keeping it anonymous. By the way, probably one of the only questions I answered "Yes" to was "I don't have voices in my head."
Again, my point. There is NO mold for these people. They're ALL different, they ALL exhibited different characteristics, and the parents of these kids will tearfully tell you that "he was quiet" and it could be anybody's child. They're absolutely right. People need to stop creating this mold of a school shooter/killer, and just realize that sometimes..people just snap. Whether it's becuase they're ex-girlfriend pissed them off, or because they had a bad childhood, or because they were lonely and bullied, or because they just plain woke up one morning and decided to do it (that's instability at work), we will never know because only that person knows...and even then, sometimes they even don't.

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Post by Gamer8585 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:48 pm

Psycho Update: In 2005 a Judge declared Cho Seung-Hui: mentally ill, and a danger to himself and the community.
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Post by Neon Heart » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:06 pm

Gamer8585 wrote:Psycho Update: In 2005 a Judge declared Cho Seung-Hui: mentally ill, and a danger to himself and the community.
Really shows how much society cares for the mentally ill, right?
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Post by the*blue*girl » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:31 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_ ... h_shooting

so... they DID do something... but like you said Tiff, there really isn't much else you CAN do in a situation like that.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:21 pm

DuoTheShinigami02 wrote:
What's more creepy (to me) when I looked at the picture of him, he nearly resembles me, down to the glasses, though mine are a bit larger, and I'm Filipino.

My dad even joked on this, but I told him, "That's not even funny".
I wouldnt laugh at that either and I hope that you dad is the only one who made that kind of comment. Thats another thing that scares me about this senseless act to. How many idiots are going to use this to lash out against asians who look like the killer? They did a story on the news were some idiots were trying to spout racist and xenophobic messages on forums but alot of people asked them to stop and pleaded for peace.

Living in Ny I grew up around many different cultures, my next door neighboors and the ones across the way were from korea and they were the nicest people you could meet and myself and their kids grew up together. And I have Filapino relatives that live out west so it bothers me that idiots will start lumping them into this mess because of one individual. I just hope that the ignorant do not get out of hand with this but I fear they will and use this to spread biggotry.


and the dealing with mentally ill is slowly getting better from what I get out of my own experiance. But its not just up to even the government. First the person involved has to be made to realize there is an issue there then they need support. I was suprized how many people that I considered close to me amongst finding out I have an illness slowly began distancing themselves because they did not understand the illness. Or how many people still assume things about my illness. Luckily I have family and a few close friends who have stuck by me threw this and with the help of them and counceling take ever good day to heart.

With any kind sickness, without support and the person admitting to themselves there is an issue nothing can be done for it. It took me 3 good years and a few visits to a mental hospital before I stopped denying my problems, and once again that was due to support from people who cared about me and didnt want to see me hurt.
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Post by Tiff » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:47 pm

the*blue*girl wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_ ... h_shooting

so... they DID do something... but like you said Tiff, there really isn't much else you CAN do in a situation like that.
...so he fancied himself a martyr?

-_-; yes. definitely unstable.

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Post by Gamer8585 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:54 pm

This whole incident has got me thinking. What really could have motivated his killings? I thinks its overly simplistic to just blame his mental illness since there are plenty of people with it, and they don't go on a rampage (in fact he himself had it for years without acting out).

Some people have taken to blame the media and its glorification of violence, however humans of all cultures have been glorifying violence for thousands of years (ex. The Iliad, Joshua's slaughter of the Canaanites, the countless amounts of war propaganda, etc). Plus people like hero's, and heroes fight evil (usually with weapons). And so many people are exposed to violent media that, statistically speaking, there should be more incidence of this kind of violence if it was a significant factor.

Some people blame access to guns, but some of the most violent regions in the world are ones where guns are band, because only the criminals have guns (thanks to the black market).

So what happened? I think that his illness was a contributing factor (a significant but not sufficient condition). However I also think, from what he said, that he probably had poor social skills and was repeatedly ostracized (possibly even battered) by his peers. This was Harris' and Klebold's justification, and it sounds like this was a Columbine copycat attack. Also it sounds like his parents were really busy and didn't have time to attend to him, and he didn't get lucky enough to find any close "positive" friends.

Believe me, I know how it feels to be an outsider. I know what it feels like to want to just kill some of my classmates, but I also know what its like to have friends and family to fall back on. To have support from people that understand me, and to a degree, appreciate my quirkiness.

I also just realized how much I make this kid sound like Gaara. I swear it's not intentional.
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Post by Tiff » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:50 pm

Gamer8585 wrote: Some people blame access to guns, but some of the most violent regions in the world are ones where guns are band, because only the criminals have guns (thanks to the black market).
People will ALWAYS find a way to gain control of a weapon, whether it's guns or something else.

I get defensive when people blame guns (i'm not saying YOU are, i'm saying society/media in general), because I myself am a gun owner, and a proud one.

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Post by Gamer8585 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:54 pm

Tiff wrote:
Gamer8585 wrote: Some people blame access to guns, but some of the most violent regions in the world are ones where guns are band, because only the criminals have guns (thanks to the black market).
People will ALWAYS find a way to gain control of a weapon, whether it's guns or something else.
Very true, a weapon is not what something is, it's how something is used.
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OF COURSE I"M MAD! YOU SHOT ME IN THE ASS! ---???

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:55 pm

As the old saying goes "Guns dont kill people. People kill people" sure there are alot of immature idiots who manage to get access to guns and other weapons. But if they couldnt get guns and were determined enough they would find other ways to cause harm and mayhem. People who are determined to take lives have bomb making, arson and other nefarious acts and I to get offended when people say its a gun issue. When I worked in florida my job required the use of a firearm. I had and carried one for my job for years then once I had my first breakdown I was smart enough to rid my home of weapons just to be safe.

I think there are plenty of intelligent people who know when to have arms and when not to and that this guy was just a combined factor of all. He was too clean cut to deny sale of a weapon to but even if he couldnt get one he seemed smart enough to where he could have used other methods.
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Post by yoshmaster5 » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:08 pm

if they do a gun-control resolution...

My thought: You don't need AK-47's or M-16's. or sniper rifles... basically, just don't allow current military weapons for sale. Anything else, go for it.

What strikes me most is how they're going on about the fact the shooter was Korean. What, are people going to think all Korean people are evil people? They shouldn't. There are some asian kids at my school... and they're soem of the most popular ones. So why judge ALL people? If it had been a White person who did this... do you think that this exact same reaction would occur? no. Instead they'd go even more into the reasoning... not the 'Reactions of the Korean community' all the time. They shoudl focus on the reasoning, and what can be done to prevent something like this from re-occuring.
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Post by Gamer8585 » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:08 pm

yoshmaster5 wrote:if they do a gun-control resolution...

My thought: You don't need AK-47's or M-16's. or sniper rifles... basically, just don't allow current military weapons for sale. Anything else, go for it.
In many ways this already happens. Usually military surplus has to be striped down before being resold to the public. I'm not sure of all the guidelines, but I've been told that if you buy a legal assault rifle its far inferior to what the military has. That's why certain weapons are contraband. Don't forget this kid used two, perfectly legal, civilian grade, hand guns.
What strikes me most is how they're going on about the fact the shooter was Korean. What, are people going to think all Korean people are evil people? They shouldn't. There are some asian kids at my school... and they're soem of the most popular ones. So why judge ALL people? If it had been a White person who did this... do you think that this exact same reaction would occur? no. Instead they'd go even more into the reasoning... not the 'Reactions of the Korean community' all the time. They shoudl focus on the reasoning, and what can be done to prevent something like this from re-occurring.
Luckily, we are such a multi-cultural society that there hasn't been a backlash against the Korean community. In more traditional homogeneous societies, you would have seen some far-right xenophobic protests.
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Post by Kameko » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:12 pm

Tiff wrote:
Gamer8585 wrote: Some people blame access to guns, but some of the most violent regions in the world are ones where guns are band, because only the criminals have guns (thanks to the black market).
People will ALWAYS find a way to gain control of a weapon, whether it's guns or something else.

I get defensive when people blame guns (i'm not saying YOU are, i'm saying society/media in general), because I myself am a gun owner, and a proud one.
I can't help but roll my eyes when I hear about gun control. Do you really think someone who plans to commit mass-murder is going to care about whether or not he legally obtains a gun to do so? If Cho could not gain a gun legally, he would have found a way to illegally obtain it.
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Post by Tiff » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:28 pm

Kameko wrote: I can't help but roll my eyes when I hear about gun control. Do you really think someone who plans to commit mass-murder is going to care about whether or not he legally obtains a gun to do so? If Cho could not gain a gun legally, he would have found a way to illegally obtain it.
Exactly. and when there are Chos lurking in the world, I have every right to defend my home and those I love, damn it.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:18 pm

And its begun

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a ... 0000000001

So now anyone who has an opinion other then this was wrong and happens to be weird to others will now have to watch their mouths or be arrested. While I personally wouldnt find myself playing devils advocate for Mr. Cho I dont think people should be thrown in jail for making comments that show sympathy towards him either. I dunno I have a bad feeling that the backlash from all of this is still yet to come.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by Gamer8585 » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:30 pm

Senshi_of_Vision wrote:And its begun

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a ... 0000000001

So now anyone who has an opinion other then this was wrong and happens to be weird to others will now have to watch their mouths or be arrested. While I personally wouldnt find myself playing devils advocate for Mr. Cho I dont think people should be thrown in jail for making comments that show sympathy towards him either. I dunno I have a bad feeling that the backlash from all of this is still yet to come.
....oh, dear Jesus. :roll:

This is not right, it dosen't even sound like the kid had any intention of shooting up his class...and they haul his ass away???

What about the other kid that got arrested for wearing a belt of spent ammunition. It was probably something he wore for months or years and now they just take it away from him.

Just because they don't know what to do dosen't mean they have to trample on the 1st amendment.

This is just like after 9/11 when Muslims and Hindus were attacked. People don't know how to cope with a situation and they start to demonize others based on stereotypes just to make themselves feel better.

Hell, I could understand why someone wants to shoot up their school. It doesn't mean I want to do it or condone it being done by others.
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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:36 pm

I agree Gamer but thats what fear and paranoia is doing and its going to get worst. Now I put that Id like to see schools screen students more who may show emotional issues but if stuff like this is going to go on then forget it. Cause this isnt going to help do anything but ostracize and push people over the edge more.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by Tiff » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:56 pm

I can ALMOST understand the second one, to a very far extent. I'm knowledgeable in the fact that spent ammunition belts ARE sold as fashion accesories, but others aren't, and may have jumped the gun a bit to prevent a disaster.

But the FIRST one is...dear GOD. Are you KIDDING me?

Gotta love paranoia.

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Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
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Post by Gamer8585 » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:07 pm

Tiff wrote:I can ALMOST understand the second one, to a very far extent. I'm knowledgeable in the fact that spent ammunition belts ARE sold as fashion accesories, but others aren't, and may have jumped the gun a bit to prevent a disaster.

But the FIRST one is...dear GOD. Are you KIDDING me?

Gotta love paranoia.
I understand why they detained the second kid (he did look dangerous), but why did they have to take his (spent)ammo-belt after they determined it wasn't a threat? I'm no expert, but I don't think you can get refills for those things.

It was a benign fashion accessory, and like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if he wore it everyday for months without incident.
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OF COURSE I"M MAD! YOU SHOT ME IN THE ASS! ---???

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