School Uniforms

Post by **Tiff** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:48 am

#1SailorMoonFan wrote:THANK YOU TIFF! I have an idea, since this thread seems to be drifting from school uniforms, maybe we could change the thread title to "School Uniforms and Kids Dressing Skanky". It's all up to the admins and mods, though.

ADMIN MODE:

....

Okay, #1SailorMoonFan, when I'm doing my job, I really don't need this. There's no need to thank me-this is my job. Also, we don't need to change the name of the thread. Part of discussing school uniforms is, in turn, discussing why they're in place; therefore, discussing how skanky kids dressed is within topic and it's common sense.

Please do not respond like this again if I'm fixing a problem. Thank you.

#1SailorMoonFan · Post by **#1SailorMoonFan** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:59 am

OK, Tiff. I completely understand. I'll make sure it won't happen again.

Post by **Tiff** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:03 am

#1SailorMoonFan wrote:OK, Tiff. I completely understand. I'll make sure it won't happen again.

^_^ thanks, sweetie.

Jumbled Thoughts · Post by **MarioKnight** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:09 am

Starscream wrote:The point of going to school is to get an education, NOT to express yourself or "kill your childhood freedom". As it is, kids get 3 months off in the summer, 3-4 weeks off during the course of the year, endless national and (in some cases) religious holidays, and the weekends. There's a time for play and a time for relaxation, and the school day is NOT that day. Don't want to "force" your kids to go to school? Then don't enroll them, that's your perogative. But if you are putting your kids into an educational system, their responsibility, first and foremost, is to learning, from K all the way to college. Part of that package includes attending to your studies and respecting your elders (something that should be applied to all of society, not just school, but that's another topic entirely). Act "sexual" and "rebellious" all you want when you're out of the classroom, but schools have rules and regulations that you and your children agree to when you sign up, so if you are going to violate them wantonly, might as well just take your kid out of the classroom and educate them yourselves.

I definetly agree with Dave here. Where I am, a school year is considered a full school year with 180 days, though some extra are set in case of closings due to weather. School days take up only about 7 hours in a day from start to finish if you don't count any after school activity, and I won't right now since the topic right now is focused on how much one is forced to be in school and I highly doubt anyone who feels that way will participate in such activities. So right now by my math, school takes up about half of a calendar year, and all those days that one goes to school, it only takes up about half of their day. There is so much free time availble for the childhood freedom mentioned, that there is no reason that there should be problems on constrictions any school sets while you are attending it. The primary function of school is to learn. While socializing and such also occur in the school, the reason schools exist and people go to them is to learn. And everything we've mentioned in this thread can really hinder the learning process. Hence why I'm for school uniforms and dress codes and such in the classroom. There is so much time to be free otherwise. Not to mention this prepares one for real life as well. Can't stand having to abide by dress code standards for half the days in a year for half the day? Then there are going to be some serious issues when it's time to go outside of school and get jobs and such. Longer days and not nearly as many days off as school. I think dress codes are important not only to the learning process in schools, but prepares one for life as well since no one can avoid it when it's time to work for a living.

Post by **Tiff** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:13 am

*nods* I'm in complete agreement with Starscream and Marioknight. Thanks for the excellent points.

Sailorasteroid · Post by **Sailorasteroid** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Except that A) kids' free time rarely encompasses time when they are in a situation with hundreds of other kids with the only supervision being that of underpaid incividuals hampered by law from enforcing moral standards and B) the education provides no visible benefits to the children.

My complaint is that in all that time we give children, we never give them a sanction for what they want to do with that time. If we did, we might get them to respect their education. Say to them, all right, do well in school, learn to be self-supporting, and in exchange, you can do all the things which we normally forbid you--dressing sexually, drinking, general rebellion, talking back to your parents--you can be independent as much as you earn it. My views on children, as has been mentioned before, is that I think they should become adults as soon as possible. These forbidden fruits would be less tempting if we understood them as acceptable vices.

Post by **AnimeGuru0** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:52 pm

No visible benefits?

Like reading? Writing? Language skills? Problem solving? Comprehensive thinking? Understanding of how the world works? o_O Yes these are all.............not benefits.......*confused*

The problem with your argument is that you believe that children are completely capable of all things an adult is capable of. That's one of the biggest fallacies I've ever heard. They're not. Kids are not able to do things adults can, that's why they're called "Dependent". And by the time they are able to potentially be adults, they have the choice to drop out of school if they really want.

Heck, if I had been given my "choice" when I was a young to do whatever the hell I wanted, I would have just sat at home and played nintendo all day. It'd be an endless summer vacation. And then I would have emerged as a total loser who wouldn't be able to hold a job for more than a week.

No, I hated school at the time, but in retrospect I can see that it has prepared me for the "real world". That's what school is for, to prepare you to become an adult.

but yeah, that's all extremely off topic. I personally don't like uniforms (i had to wear one for like 5 years), but I'm not 100% against them. I don't think having a uniform gives any great benefits or disadvantages, rather than a slight annoyance to some. but for others it can be a good thing because they wont have to worry about what to wear that day, and it can prepare them for when they have a job and have to follow a strict dresscode.

Post by **Tiff** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:54 pm

Thank you, Animeguru. I honestly couldn't properly respond to Sailor Asteroid's post, becuase I was too angry. You said it perfectly.

Sailor Asteroid, how do you think that makes me, as a teacher, feel? Do you think I babysit all day? Do you think I give my kids NOTHING that will carry on with them throughout life? I teach my kids to read, to write, social skills and life skills.

I felt incredibly insulted by your statements, and as a result, couldn't even respond.

#1SailorMoonFan · Post by **#1SailorMoonFan** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:55 pm

My complaint is that in all that time we give children, we never give them a sanction for what they want to do with that time.

Um, there is plenty of stuff kids fit into their time. And it is their responsibility to fit it in. And no one can do everything they want! I would like to learn every language in the world but there is not enough time in my life to do that.

If we did, we might get them to respect their education.

There are TONS of kids who respect education and love school. I am one of them. School is something I find enjoyable. Teahers work their butts off!!!! They and my parents have thought me so much!! And I am still in school learning and preparing for life. Teachers deserve WAY more respect and money. And what do they get back? Boy, if it wasn't for education, NONE of us would be at this website right now.

Say to them, all right, do well in school, learn to be self-supporting, and in exchange, you can do all the things which we normally forbid you--dressing sexually, drinking, general rebellion, talking back to your parents--you can be independent as much as you earn it.

No, kids need boundaries. EVERYONE needs boundaries.

My views on children, as has been mentioned before, is that I think they should become adults as soon as possible. These forbidden fruits would be less tempting if we understood them as acceptable vices.

Make them adults as soon as possible???? I disagree 100%. Kids need to experience everything with their friends, family, and themselves to EVOLVE into an adult. An adult is something you mature into. And kids and teens just need to be kids and teens. Kids don't need to learn about life's burdens until they are ready for it. But kids DO need to learn responsibility.

Edit: Darn, Tiffu and Guru beat me to it. Oh well. And Tiffu, you weren't the only one who was angry.
Edit AGAIN:

This has made me so mad I can't even properly write a post!

(I've edited this post for the 6th time now!)

Sailorasteroid · Post by **Sailorasteroid** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:30 pm

OK, the emphasis should have been on the word visible. I'm a teenager. Language, cognitive thinking, math skills, what do they do for me, now, when all I want is to have fun? You and I know the skills are valuable because we have them, we've done our work. How can a kid, who knows nothing of the skills and their benefits, nothing of work or life management, be made to understand that? In one of two ways: punishment for failing, or reward for succeeding. Carrots or sticks. I say, let's give them some of what they want; maybe they'll be happier and more likely to like learning.

I'm trying to get to my larger point, but I've started and erased it several times. So let me try to put this in first principles. We have a teenager. He/she needs things: food, shelter, clothes. He/she also wants things like cheap sex, drugs, and a rebellious look (not all people want these, but some do). Eventually, all these things will have to be paid for by the teen in question. Therefore, he/she will have to learn skills and go to work. Part of the skills needed include patience, forbearance, and occasional conformity. However, in learning these skills, part of the teenager, the part who wanted sex and rebellion, is lost. No one weeps for this part, since it contributed nothing. But I care about this part, because I believe that all human desires, no matter how depraved, have value in and of themselves. I think it would be good to say, "OK, you have worked enough, produced enough to support yourself. You may now throw off patience, forbearance, and conformity, and be guided only by your desires. The support for these shall come from the work you have done." To give the teenager some light at the end of the tunnel, that if he/she will but supress his/her desires, they can eventually be attained. There are some desires that can be earned in a day, some in a month, some in a year, some only after a lifetime, but they are all available.

To sum up, I believe the opposite of what #1SailorMoonFan said: what everyone needs is *escape* from boundaries.

Post by **Tiff** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:50 pm

ADMIN MODE:

We need to get back on the topic of school uniforms, and school uniforms only. People are getting angry (myself included), and it's deviating from school uniforms to education in general to teenage/childhood rebellion.

Let's cut the discussion of what children need in their education/lives, and get back to school uniforms.

Panda · Post by **Panda** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:56 pm

Hmmm... okay then.

It looks like we have a teen group and an adult group in this thread and since I'm just a little to young...

I've noticed alot of you are saying that what you do at home and what you do at school is entirely different but I don't think it really is. Some kids are either over-pressured at home or have nothing at home to base their lives off of (I'm speaking more for teenagers than children but they do fit in the circle most of the time. Some of us have jobs, not just jobs to pay for our iPods but REAL, bill-paying jobs.

Some of our parents beat the crap out of us for the simple shit. Bad grades, dressing skanky, lying, breaking curfew. Typical things, while not good things, can be handled and very exagerated ways. This appears to a be a community that hasn't grown up with these type of problems (Not all of you, please don't make me out to be saying that). The way someone acts at school only reflects a tiny tiny percent of how they are at home.

That being said, I believe that the reason so many kids will act out at schools (dress-codes and such) is because they know they know that they can either not get in near as much trouble as they would at home or because they feel they can overpower someone whereas they are usually in the opposite position.

Take my opinion as you want to but nobody acts the same at home as they do at school.

Neon Heart · Post by **Neon Heart** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:59 pm

I for one am for school uniforms. The uniforms might look the same, but that doesn't mean someone has to blend in with everyone. It's the kind of shoes, the extra accessories, and the way a kid wears make-up, jewelry, or how they put their hair up that makes them different.

I say I'm for school uniforms because:

1.) It makes choosing what to wear to school everyday VERY easy,
2.) A kid won't be picked on for what they DO wear to school (and if they still are, then the other kid has some serious issues).

And like I said above, the students might wear the same thing, but it's how they choose to wear a certain thing that makes them different.

I'm also kind of tired of hearing kids say "It isn't fair that the teacher doesn't wear a uniform too", because for one thing, the teacher is the adult, they work at the school, and their there to teach. There not there to blend in with the students, mind you, and since their the adults actually doing their job at the school, I'm probably more than safe to assume they can wear whatever they please.

Panda · Post by **Panda** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:13 pm

Teachers wearing uniforms... lord.

Anyway, I go to a school that requires a uniform and I must say that you can get made fun of depending on how you dress. One very common insult is high-waters (where your pants rise above your ankle... or higher

)

I got ridiculed so much for my clothes the last 3 years (I'm a tall girl for my age so finding clothes that comply with the uniform AND fit me nicely is an extermely hard task.) for my clothes that it was completely unnessacary. Not to mention alot of the people making fun of me were out of the dress code themselves (It isn't hard to unbutton a shirt...).

The way you wear it may make you individual but doesn't that kind of contradict the whole point of school uniforms? Me thinks so.

Post by **Tiff** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:54 pm

What's wrong with teachers wearing uniforms? I had to from August to March.

We had to wear any combination of navy blue and white, and there was a dress code with it...just like the kids. It made things easy for me, and it cut down on the ridiculous fashion policing that goes on even with adults. It isn't just kids that can be cruel or skanky with clothe..adults can, too.

Panda · Post by **Panda** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:19 pm

Yah, but for adults to be forced to wear uniforms. By that point don't you think most of you would have grown up enough to where you shouldn't need that? I mean, equality is great and all but teacher having to wear uniforms sounds very contradicting.

Post by **Tiff** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:51 pm

Panda wrote:Yah, but for adults to be forced to wear uniforms. By that point don't you think most of you would have grown up enough to where you shouldn't need that? I mean, equality is great and all but teacher having to wear uniforms sounds very contradicting.

You would THINK most adults are "grown up" enough to handle not wearing uniforms. But sadly, part of the reason our school had to institute uniforms for the teachers is becuase too many of them were dressing inappropriately. One person can ruin it for everyone.

Actually, it makes things fair. I can see why it would upset older children and why they might say, "why do I have to wear this, but the teachers can wear what they want?" You're showing an example by dressing appropriately, and the teacher can say, "We all have to be fair and follow the rules. See, even adults have rules." *shrugs* Adults wear uniforms in fast food jobs, retail jobs, and factory jobs. Why should the classroom be any different?

Panda · Post by **Panda** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:13 am

That makes a bit more sense. I go to school wear the teachers are required to dress "professionaly" so I guess the idea just never crossed my mind that some people wouldn't take their job seriously in that area.

Do you guys have similar unifroms as the students? (Do you're students have unifroms, I forget if you'd mentioned that or not...). And if not, which do you think is more limited? The students or the teachers dress code.

Post by **Tiff** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:55 am

Panda wrote: Do you guys have similar unifroms as the students? (Do you're students have unifroms, I forget if you'd mentioned that or not...). And if not, which do you think is more limited? The students or the teachers dress code.

Similar, yes. The kids are a little more limited. They have to wear white button-downs or polo shirts, and navy blue slacks, shorts, or skirts (or the girls can wear like a jumper-type dress). The teachers could wear any combination of navy blue and white, regardless of whether it's shirt or pants, and we were more free with our shirt styles.

Yayamaya · Post by **Yayamaya** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:33 pm

Well,when I had a uniform I was horroble grade wise but that was because of a bad school,and I might have to get uniforms again next year.I my self like uniforms because I am lazy and don't like picking out cloths....although the uniforms would be skirts.......I've decided to wear the boys uniform if I can get away with it(I despise skirts) I also get poked mocked and made fun of for my cloths and it has got me suspened once *caugh*