Poor Baby shot

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:30 pm

A few days ago, there was a shootout in LA and a 19 month old baby was shot and killed.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15901942-2,00.html

That is some real fucked up shit. Poor baby...

I can't even imagine what her mother must be going through.

Post by **Tiff** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:56 pm

Oh, my God..that poor child and mother.

*Shakes head*

yoshmaster5 · Post by **yoshmaster5** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:22 am

jesus...

the things people will do...

*shakes head*

Jusenkyo no Pikachu · Post by **Jusenkyo no Pikachu** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:00 am

No wonder I'm glad we have tighter gun laws. That is REALLY fucked up.

Usagi04 · Post by **Usagi04** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:19 pm

That is sad that a father would use his child to protect himself. I feel bad for the mother.

Chibisteven · Post by **Chibisteven** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:40 pm

Hope the sick fucks that shot that poor child go to prision for the rest of their pathetic lives. That is really sad. I can't even begin to imagine what the mother must be going through.

Post by **Tiff** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:58 pm

While I do feel for the baby and the mother...I'm not gonna sit here and call the police "sick fucks" and acting as though they're monsters. The man came out shooting at civilians and the police, while using his own daughter as a shield. Were the police supposed to let him kill civilians? What if they hadn't shot back in self-defense, and the father had accidentally shot a four year old girl in her yard? Or through a house window? Then people would be wondering "where the fuck were the cops?! Sick bastards didn't protect that little girl!"

We don't know the situation, and oftentimes, the media paints this black and white picture that makes it look so easy to figure out. "oooh, bad cops shot at poor depressed man holding his baby daughter, even though his mother begged them NOT to."

It's not like the cops went "HEY! A BABY! LET'S SHOOT IT!!" They were doing what they are trained to do...opening fire on someone that first opened fire on them AND on civilians. It's an ethical choice taht yes, can lead to tragedy, but really...isn't the real "sick fuck" here the father who used his own infant daughter as a shield?

Chibisteven · Post by **Chibisteven** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:06 pm

I agree that the sick fuck is the father.

Post by **Tiff** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:47 pm

Chibisteven wrote:I agree that the sick fuck is the father.

*Nods* that's what's so sad...how someone can use their baby as a shield like that, expose them to open gunfire without a care in the world.

Post by **AnimeGuru0** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:08 am

I echo tiff's sentiments.

This reminds me of the whole "9/11" controversy. I remember reading about a professor pre-9/11 that asked his students "If a plane was hijacked and was used as a weapon or missle type object, would it be ok to shoot the plane down, at the expense of the passengers, even if we weren't sure that the plane would be used in that way?"

The answers were increadibly mixed. This is to be expected, we had never experienced something like that before 9/11. This same professor took the opportunity after 9/11 and asked a different class the same question, the response was almost unanimous to shoot the plane down. While tragic as it is that the passengers would have to die, to save the lives of others, it would be worth it.

I think this is the same. Yes, it's tragic that this poor child died, but it was the FATHER, not the police that put this child in danger. What if he had gone on a shooting rampage and killed 10.....15 people? Are the police just supposed to sit there and go "Oh well, let's wait for him to put the kid down," at the expense of all those other lives? It's just not worth it. While ideally, it would have been preferred that the child had survived, life isn't that simple. Life is tragic, and this is just another tragedy.

In my eyes, the father killed the child, not the police.

jupiter23 · Post by **jupiter23** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:11 pm

I'm with Bob-san on that. The father put his kid in that situation, and the police were doing their jobs. Even they can't really predict what their bullets are going to hit, just for argument's sake. The father is the one who should be held responsible for his child's death, not the police.

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:09 pm

It's true. The dad was a bastard for using his daughter as a shield. He went nuts. Asshole.

But still, couldn't the police just snipe him out? Or have a negotiator distract him while some officers quietly snuck in there and stop him?

I think they could've tried to do it differently. But I don't blame them for killing the girl. They had to do what they had to do.

God bless that baby girl and especially her mom.

peachvampiress · Post by **peachvampiress** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:32 pm

Jonathan

But still, couldn't the police just snipe him out? Or have a negotiator distract him while some officers quietly snuck in there and stop him?

It's possible that they were in an area where a sniper wouldn't have been able to get a clean shot without being seen by the gunman. And if the man was so mentally unstable that he was shooting at police and random people while using his daughter as a shield, I doubt he'd even bother with a negotiator.

Ayane · Post by **Ayane** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:22 pm

peachvampiress wrote:Jonathan
But still, couldn't the police just snipe him out? Or have a negotiator distract him while some officers quietly snuck in there and stop him?
It's possible that they were in an area where a sniper wouldn't have been able to get a clean shot without being seen by the gunman. And if the man was so mentally unstable that he was shooting at police and random people while using his daughter as a shield, I doubt he'd even bother with a negotiator.

It also seems as if time was probably a HUGE factor in this instance. The minutes that it could have taken to even try for something like that after they had assessed the situation could have cost SEVERAL more lives than wound up being lost.

So sad that some people can't even value the lives of their own children.

peachvampiress · Post by **peachvampiress** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:03 pm

Don't know what station it was, but they were talking about this incident today. They mentioned that apparently the guy was high on cocaine during the shoot off. They also mentioned that there are suspicions that he molested the 19 month old before the shoot out, and as for the mother, she's sueing the police force for money because they shot her daughter.

Oh, and the police officers are being accused of being racists since the gunman was a minority.

-_- I hate people.

Post by **AnimeGuru0** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:24 pm

Unfortunately, as innocent as the police officers may be, this is the LAPD, which is notorious for being super corrupt. =\ It's really a shame. Truly is a shame.

Starchild · Post by **Starchild** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:40 pm

My god... that is horrible. Even if they are cops, the baby should not of had to die!

Post by **Tiff** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:28 pm

*Shrugs* this is another one of those ethical incidences, that could have had a million results. We can sit here and say, "this should have happened", or "this shouldn't have happened" or "I would have done this". But none of us were there. None of us know how unstable the man was, how much in danger others were, etc.

Cops are trained to do certain things. I'm not going to consider them horrible human beings becuase they did their job.

peachvampiress · Post by **peachvampiress** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:22 am

The cop that accidentally shot the baby is probably suffering enough as it is with guilt and I'm sure all the people who are berating him for it aren't making the situation any better.

Post by **Tiff** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:29 am

peachvampiress wrote:The cop that accidentally shot the baby is probably suffering enough as it is with guilt and I'm sure all the people who are berating him for it aren't making the situation any better.

Exactly. Nobody seems to have stopped and thought about how bad that guy must be feeling. He had to make an extremely difficult choice, and no matter what decision he made, the outcome probably would have haunted him.