Benedict the Nazi

[Jed-kun]

I found out today durring my Art Appreciation class that the new pope is/was a Nazi. He was in the "Hitler's Youth" AND was in the Nazi army. Yes, I know that these things were required at the time, that doesn't change the fact that I think it's wrong.

Anyway, I was just wondering what everybody's thoughts were on this. Do you think he's changed/was never REALLY a true Nazi or do you think that he still harbors Nazi feelings/is pure evil? Will he make a good pope or not?

My views- they are strong and some may find them offensive so I have put them in spoiler tags.

[spoiler]I think that it is shamefull for the Catholic Church to promote this man to any position of power (please ignore all spelling mistakes). We just got off a pretty good pope as far as popes go who appologized for the churches actions, or lack there of, durring the war and now they nominate an ex-Nazi. This incident/decision has only furthered my deep seeded hatred of the Catholic Church. There were surely better candidates. I am disgusted.[/spoiler]

The gist, I hate him.

[jupiter23]

I found out today durring my Art Appreciation class that the new pope is/was a Nazi. He was in the "Hitler's Youth" AND was in the Nazi army. Yes, I know that these things were required at the time, that doesn't change the fact that I think it's wrong.

Now, while I don't forgive anything Hitler did as dictator, For arguments' sake I will say that young people are easily swayed by anything. The fact that the new pope used to be or still is a Nazi is subject to argument to me, but he was in Hitler's Youth. That means that he was young when Hitler was in power. He may have thought Hitler had the right idea at the time, but like many Germans then, he probably also became disenchanted with Hitler after a while. He probably was also pushed into joining by his parents. I won't pretend to know anything about this guy's life, because I don't. So I guess what I am saying is that if the Catholic Church finds it to be a big deal, then they will remove him from his seat.

[yoshmaster5]

I utterly hate the Nazis, and what Hitler did. And I belive that Neo-Nazis are messed up...

What people have been doing... Heck one kid at my school who I SWEAR is a Neo-nazi, was going around saying the pope is a nazi. My thoughts: I've watched enough stuff on the History Channel to know that if you weren't a Nazi, you were put in a concentration camp. Hitler was able to win people over in his speeches, and took advantage of the people's hatred of the current government. He won people over very quickly. You didn't really have a CHOICE. and the Caatholic Church couldn't even do anything during the war, since Italy was Hitler's ally.

You can't judge Germans that lived in that time simply as Nazis, they probably changed. and that ends my rant.

[Cardcaptor Takato]

I don't know anything about the pope or if any of this is true, but I will say this. Before Paul became a minister, he killed many Christians for their beliefs or at least helped in the killings of those Christians, yet the Lord forgave him for it, and after wards, he became a great asset in the beginnings of the early church. I don't know what requirements one has to have to become the pope, or if anything about this guy being a Nazi is true, but if the Lord can forgive Paul for his helping other Christians being killed, then surely Catholics can forgive this guy for the mistakes he may have made in the past. Maybe the Catholic church even had this in mind when they chose him to be the pope.....

[Ayane]

Why do you think it's wrong that he's Pope after being FORCED into the Hitler Youth and the German Nazi army? You make it sound as if he was brainwashed during this time and made to believe in everything they said. He grew up in a very ANTI-Nazi family, so much so that they were forced to move at least once after altercations with supporters of the Nazi party. He was actually a deserter of the army and lived until the end of the war in fear of the SS. I don't think he should be looked down upon because of being forced to be in the army at the cost of his life.

[Jed-kun]

Why do I think it's wrong...

1. The Pope is a largely political figure today. After a Pope who appologized for the Church, retroactively, appointing a Pope who WAS a Nazi (it's sited in numerous articles) is very poor politics. I equate it to appointing a "reformed" Pamela Anderson to head of a Commity for Conservative Family Values (I have no idea if this is a real organization or not, but you get the idea).

2. I have seen no evidence to say that he was "forced" other than word-of-mouth. Meaning that I have no faith in this. Example of BIG SPIN on a bad event. Bush (yes, the political angle again) recieved a ticket/was arrested for driving drunk (this is not meant to start a Bush debate, it's just the first example that sprang to mind). When questioned on this one of his people said that it was because he was "driving too slow." Why was this said? Because it's a spin that makes the truth sound not so bad. In actuality he was speeding and crashed into a bush... irony? (This isn't BS, it's actually sited in documentation that I just don't want to have to hunt down again).

3. If you are one of the few who still believe the Pope a devine messanger of God (I really respect those who have that kind of faith, and that's not sarcasm it's sincerity) then I object to his appointment as Pope because he didn't stand up for what he blieved in. When more than 6 million people are killed and you stand back and do little to nothing other than say "it's wrong" that's fine, unless of course you think that you have the moral fiber to become a Pope. The Pope should be willing to stand up for what he believes in. He must do this not just for himself, but for all his people. I don't feel that this Pope has that kind of personality. Jaun-Paul II helped sneak people out of Poland durring WWII (if I'm wrong sorry, but I think that's right).
As to Benedict leaving the service and living in fear of the SS for the rest of the war, I am not impresed. He left (from what I understand) only a few weeks before the end of the war. To me this say's "Oh, @#$%, we're loosing... I'm getting out of here before the @#$% hits the fan." Of course I don't know what made him leave for a fact, but it's my feeling and that's what oppinions are largely based on after all. Feeling + Facts (unfortunatly the "facts" portion seems often to be Optional) = Oppinion.

[RoastedTwinkies]

Like the others mentioned, I don't believe the Pope was a Nazi because he was forced to join Hitler Youth. I hate Hitler and the Nazi's for what they did. They were so extreme with their political agenda that they sent anyone who disagreed with them to the death camps. So basically, you have two choices. Even though you disagree with them, go along with them and keep your mouth shut, or you can voice an opposition and get murdered. Which would you choose? I would go with the first option.

[jupiter23]

Why do you think it's wrong that he's Pope after being FORCED into the Hitler Youth and the German Nazi army? You make it sound as if he was brainwashed during this time and made to believe in everything they said. He grew up in a very ANTI-Nazi family, so much so that they were forced to move at least once after altercations with supporters of the Nazi party. He was actually a deserter of the army and lived until the end of the war in fear of the SS. I don't think he should be looked down upon because of being forced to be in the army at the cost of his life.

I agree with this, and what Roasted-san said. It's human nature to want to survive, and most would do anything to acheive that. If you disagreed with the Nazis, you died. Benedict probably thought that it would have been better to shut up and follow the crowd than to be sent to a concentration camp, if he had that mentality or even knew of the concentration camps. Keep in mind that many of the general population of Germany or its occupied countries at the time knew little to nothing of the death camps, until they were discovered by the invading American forces. (That too is up for debate, though I remember hearing something to that effect in History class a few semesters back.)

[Akarui Kibuno]

Bah, there are other reasons not to like this Pope anyway. This Nazi thing just isn't important compared to other stuff.

I'll research my facts before posting though.

I'll quote what I found and then comment.


http://www.cnn.com/

It seems that he is too conservative. Hopefully the Holy Spirit can help him change," Jurandir Arauj of the National Conference of Bishops Afro-Brazilian Section told Reuters.

In the Vatican, he has been the driving force behind crackdowns on liberation theology, religious pluralism, challenges to traditional moral teachings on issues such as homosexuality, and dissent on such issues as women's ordination.

Hans Kung, a Catholic theologian, author and professor at Germany's University of Tubingen, said: "The election of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger as pope is an enormous disappointment for all those who hoped for a reformist and pastoral pope. ... But we must wait and see, for experience shows that the papacy in the Catholic Church today is such a challenge that it can change anyone: Someone who went into the conclave a progressive cardinal can emerge as a conservative pope. ... Someone who went into the conclave a conservative cardinal can emerge as a progressive pope."

www.yahoo.com

With unusual speed and little surprise, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany became Pope Benedict XVI on Tuesday, a 78-year-old transitional leader who promises to enforce strictly conservative policies for the world's Roman Catholics.

Not everyone was happy, however. Jose Silvano, a 40-year-old travel agent from Brazil, called Ratzinger "the right pope for the cardinals, but not for the people. We were hoping for a South American, a Brazilian, a pope who would work for the neediest and the rights of women and children."

Niels Hendrich, 40, of Hamburg, Germany, jumped up and down at the prospect of a new pope — but then gave only three halfhearted claps when he learned who it was.

"I am not happy about this at all," he said. "Ratzinger will put the brakes on all the progressive movements in the church that I support."

As dean of the College of Cardinals, Ratzinger had delivered a particularly sensitive homily at John Paul's funeral. He followed it up with a fiery speech to the cardinals before they entered their conclave Monday, warning about tendencies that he considered dangers to the faith: sects, ideologies like Marxism, liberalism, atheism, agnosticism and relativism — the ideology that there are no absolute truths.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/ ... 9261.shtml

There you go. The conservative part scares me the most...

[Umino]

You can't judge Germans that lived in that time simply as Nazis, they probably changed. and that ends my rant.

It didn't seem like it when I went over there. I know this is gonna sound racist, but most Germens still act like they rule the damn world. Shoot, every American over there seems to agree with that too.

Back on topic, I heard about this in art class. My teacher said "back then, everyone thought Hitler was right, he was problemly forced, etc." It's a bit upsetting an ex-Nazi is now the Pope, and it'll must likely cause an uproar. However, in the Catholic religion will believe in: "God forgives, ask God for forgiveness". It could be he really does feel guilty for the past, and asked for God's forgiveness.

[AnimeGuru0]

Wow. I am absolutely appalled by this topic.

This forum IS NOT for flaming popes, catholics, germans, Nazis, or ANYBODY.

JED-KUN - I don't see how you can judge this pope when you have barely done any research about him. You are being increadibly judgemental.

UMINO - Your comments about Germans was increadibly out of line.

Also, Hitler was NOT evil. The Nazis were NOT evil. They did some horrible horrible things, yes. Hitler did horrible things. But just because Joseph Ratzinger lived in Germany and was under the control of Nazi Germany does not say ANYTHING about his character. Living in Germany during the Nazi regime gives NO ONE a right to condemn someone.

This thread is becoming far too judgemental and hateful. Thus it is being locked. If you would like to restart this topic with more of a CIVIL TONE, feel free. I would also suggest to all members to do a bit of RESEARCH before you talk about something that is so sensitive to so many people.