Farenheit 9/11: Your thoughts

DuoTheShinigami02 · Post by **DuoTheShinigami02** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:10 pm

Have you seen this movie?

Before watching it, I'll admit that I was having some doubts about President Bush, having read Al Franken's "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them". That, and I'm considering being an "anybody but Bush" type of person.

After viewing it, I was surprised about how he may have a dark side as well.

jupiter23 · Post by **jupiter23** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:23 pm

Do you mean Bush or Michael Moore? Because neither one of them is perfect.

I haven't seen this one, but I have seen Bowling For Columbine, Moore's other documentary film. I thought it had some good points in it, but otherwise it was full of crap and many of his arguements were not very well-founded. This is one of the reasons I don't intend to see Farenheit 9/11 unless I have to.

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:30 pm

Don't get me started on Michael Moore. He's enough to make me go homicidal. (By the way, I'm sick of hearing about that fat, lying bastich to the point where I may go postal.) Wait'll Charlie Daniels hears about this movie.

jupiter23 · Post by **jupiter23** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:50 pm

I'm betting anything that he already knows, as everyone in the country has to have heard about Moore and his movies by now.

Sailorasteroid · Post by **Sailorasteroid** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:00 pm

OK, let me see if I can do this without being too mean or sarcastic. ^_^

Michael Moore knows how to make movies. Canadian Bacon was a well-mad, well-written, funny movie. That completely bombed. So he reinvented himself as a far-left filmmaker who passes his movies off as some kind of holy crusade. This works to sell movie tickets. The rank-and-file in the political debates generally see politics not as a debate between reasonable people, but as a battle of good and evil, with their side being the good. Too many leftists think the right is a conspiracy to aid the rich white men at the expense of everyone else. Too many rightists see the left as a bunch of silly kids who haven't grown up yet. Rush Limbaugh and his ilk tell to the latter group what it wants to hear . Michael Moore tells to the former what it wants to hear.

So I think the movie is preaching to the choir, and that's not what we need in politics. What responsible people need to be doing is presenting the facts and the logic behind both sides of the debate so people can make informed decisions. Reality check: neither the defeat nor the re-election of the president in November is going to usher in a new Golden Age, nor is the side that lost going to say, "Well, I guess we're wrong. You guys take over." But that's what this sort of propaganda pretends is true.

So here's what people should do. Think and come up with what sides of an issue you support on your own. Figure out what you think is good and what isn't. Then match political figures and parties accordingly. Then when you're set, you can start following the boosters and the pundits secure in the knowledge that you're not being brainwashed. Farenheit 9/11 shouldn't be the start of anyone's political views. For those people who make it so, they're going to find themselves in a mess when they try to argue and find that the other side isn't a corrupt mafia ready to kill and steal at any time.

Death_2004 · Post by **Death_2004** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:06 pm

I liked the movie... even though there are some scenes that disgusted me the overal facts that this film makes is really interesting to see. I recommend everyone here to watch the film.
On the terms if it is ture or not i can not say anything but the facts presented are amazing if not true.

Post by **AnimeGuru0** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:10 pm

DuoTheShinigami02 wrote:Have you seen this movie?

Before watching it, I'll admit that I was having some doubts about President Bush, having read Al Franken's "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them". That, and I'm considering being an "anybody but Bush" type of person.

After viewing it, I was surprised about how he may have a dark side as well.

You do realize that that book and this movie are not FAIR portrayals of the facts right? They skew and twist facts aroud to paint a picture that doesn't exist. Don't take these........peices of garbage as fact. Being mormon, I know all about the art of fact skewing and twisting (as it is always used against us). You should go out and find the true unbiased facts on these issues before you make a decision, and that goes for whichever party you want to affiliate with or with any situation in general.

ParaKiss_Groupie · Post by **ParaKiss_Groupie** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:13 pm

To be honest, I do want to see this movie. But I'm not going to see it in theaters. If I pay $20 to see a movie, I want entertainment, and not a lecture. Besides, as Sailor Asteroid said, he's preaching to the choir. Everybody knows Micheal Moore's viewpoints, so what's the point? The people who go see the movie agree with him. The ones who disagree aren't going to see the movie. So I might rent this later, but quite frankly, I've got better things to spend my real movie money. Like Home at the End of the World.

shansen · Post by **shansen** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:12 am

I thought it was a very good movie. Granted, I'm not big on politics (Canadian, American or otherwise), and I do also realize how everything was portraying Bush in the worst possible light. Even so, the evidence shown really makes you think. And that's the whole point - to make people think about what's going on.

Sailor Wind · Post by **Sailor Wind** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:45 am

I'm not sure if i will see this movie since i'm more of an action film sort of person ^^. I probably wouldn't pay to watch a type of film which i don't like watching since I love movies the complete opposite of lecture.

Chibi Son Gokou · Post by **Chibi Son Gokou** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:54 pm

Seeing this movie made me hate Bush a lot more than I already did, but you can't take this entire movie seriously. Not everything on there is true. In fact, some of the things are pure bullshit, like the part about escorting the Bin Laden family back to Saudi Arabia after 9/11 and letting them go free.

Post by **AnimeGuru0** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:36 pm

Personally, I think this movie is total bullshit, and sorry if this sounds rude and offensive, but anyone who buys into it needs to have some serious IQ re-evaluations.

And I don't say that exclusively about "Left-wing" movies, any movie that's as remarkably deceptive as this one, whether it be left-wing, right-wing, pro-catholic, pro-protestant, WHATEVER. It's just sickening. It truly makes me sick to see this kind of crap, and it makes me sick to see so many people buying into it, not having any mind for themselves.

Sailor Wind · Post by **Sailor Wind** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:08 am

I hate movies which involve changing the ways of how we think about other people and by the sounds of it this movie is one of them! I haven't seen the movie but from the feed back everyone's given I dealt i will waste my money on a movie like this.

Death_2004 · Post by **Death_2004** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:33 pm

Well even though i am Canadian and don't actually live in america my self. Which makes my opinion a little not valid but you have to agree. Even though you think it is a peice of " Shit" if the things in the movie are true then there is a huge political agenda the Bush has.

Like one peice of information where:

[spoiler] Due to pay cuts there in only one police officer in an one whole department and at one time in that very state there were only 8 officers on duty at the time!!! [/spoiler]

Now i am not one to start pointing but if thats true then i feel sorry for those americans in that state.

ParaKiss_Groupie · Post by **ParaKiss_Groupie** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:49 pm

Death_2004 wrote:Well even though i am Canadian and don't actually live in america my self. Which makes my opinion a little not valid but you have to agree. Even though you think it is a peice of " Shit" if the things in the movie are true then there is a huge political agenda the Bush has.

Like one peice of information where:

[spoiler] Due to pay cuts there in only one police officer in an one whole department and at one time in that very state there were only 8 officers on duty at the time!!! [/spoiler]

Now i am not one to start pointing but if thats true then i feel sorry for those americans in that state.

And Dubya has nothing to do with police officers at all. That is handled by states, and furthermore, counties. That information is completely irrelevant when it comes to Dubya.

Death_2004 · Post by **Death_2004** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:14 pm

THough you are right about police work is handled by the states i only used it as an example of if the things that are said are true then i feel sorry thats all. In the movie it only state that the police force in that state is a result of the cuts made by bush to tell you the truth i do find that one arguement a bit off for it is somebody else in that government that figures out how much goes to each state for policing

Post by **AnimeGuru0** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:33 pm

Death - That point is pretty ridiculous (the point made by Moore, not you) if it is in the movie (I haven't seen it) since considering how COMPLEX government is and considering state sovereignty and limited federal power over state funds (if there's any power at all), this is a null point by Moore.

A budget cut made by bush could NOT affect a state so as to limit police officers. This is just impossible. If for some reason a federal budget cut limited a state's resources, it is up to the state to reallocate funds effectively. If police enforcement funds are low in the state (thus adversely affecting the force), it is the state's DUTY to allocate funds there to adequately protect its citizens. If federal funding is not adequate, measures the state could use would include raising (or instating) taxes within the state to help the deficiency or allocating funds from other programs (transportation, education, federal construction, etc or a combination of all) to help the deficiency.

The point I'm making is, it's the STATE'S responsiblity to make sure their police force is adequately funded, not the federal government. In fact, the only form of security Bush would have power over to directly affect would be the Army, Navy, Marines etc. Federal defense forces. And last time I checked, those were the most powerful in the world.

I love it when I make Moore sound like an idiot.

Btw - Did he actually make this point in the movie (me having not seen it), cause if he did, it totally destroys any type of respect i ever had for him. If i'm taking this the wrong way, please tell me =P

Death_2004 · Post by **Death_2004** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:03 am

AnimeGuru0 wrote:Death - That point is pretty ridiculous (the point made by Moore, not you) if it is in the movie (I haven't seen it) since considering how COMPLEX government is and considering state sovereignty and limited federal power over state funds (if there's any power at all), this is a null point by Moore.

A budget cut made by bush could NOT affect a state so as to limit police officers. This is just impossible. If for some reason a federal budget cut limited a state's resources, it is up to the state to reallocate funds effectively. If police enforcement funds are low in the state (thus adversely affecting the force), it is the state's DUTY to allocate funds there to adequately protect its citizens. If federal funding is not adequate, measures the state could use would include raising (or instating) taxes within the state to help the deficiency or allocating funds from other programs (transportation, education, federal construction, etc or a combination of all) to help the deficiency.

The point I'm making is, it's the STATE'S responsiblity to make sure their police force is adequately funded, not the federal government. In fact, the only form of security Bush would have power over to directly affect would be the Army, Navy, Marines etc. Federal defense forces. And last time I checked, those were the most powerful in the world.

:D I love it when I make Moore sound like an idiot.

Btw - Did he actually make this point in the movie (me having not seen it), cause if he did, it totally destroys any type of respect i ever had for him. If i'm taking this the wrong way, please tell me =P

yes he did make this point in the movie stating that it was an effect of some kind of buget decrease. And i do see your point. Please take in mind that i live in Canada and don't know these things of how the american government works.

Ni-ban Neko · Post by **Ni-ban Neko** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:31 am

AnimeGuru0 wrote: A budget cut made by bush could NOT affect a state so as to limit police officers. This is just impossible.

The New York Times and the states of Ohio, California, and Washington would beg to differ; look at this story from yesterday's Times.

Death_2004 · Post by **Death_2004** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:37 pm

That was a vey intresting news article. Thanx for sharing it.

Sailor Moon Uncensored

Farenheit 9/11: Your thoughts

Fahrenheit 9/11: your thoughts

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11: your thoughts