Japanese in Fanfiction/Usage by Fans

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:01 pm

I'm starting this topic mostly in response to an essay/rant I read once (I'm not sure where it was, though). Here are the two things I have a slight rebuttal to:
1) He/she said that fanfics should be English only.
Response: As a fanfic writer myself, all I'll say is that I have my own personal rules for using foreign languages in the stories, and they are:
a. Make sure the foreign words are defined, either during the story itself by one of the characters, or are in a dictionary supplement to the story.
b. Unless it's intentional, use the foreign words correctly if they're spoken by someone who naturally speaks that language. This means no Pepe-Le-Pew French (in the Pepe-Le-Pew cartoons, the French characters don't even speak their own languages properly)

2) He/she said that he/she was sickened by hearing an American girl talk Japanese when referring to one of her favorite anime characters and probably means that he/she thinks that anime fans should stick to their own language.
Rebuttal: Now that I think is positively xenophobic. English (and Japanese, too) has foreign loanwords that are used in everyday life, and I bet the person who said that uses them his/herself already. Again, the only thing I would say is that if your use of a foreign language isn't understood, you should explain what it means, but otherwise I see no problem. Of course, I may be biased since I like new languages.

ParaKiss_Groupie · Post by **ParaKiss_Groupie** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:34 pm

The only thing that slightly get on my nerves in fanfics is when a character who was Japanese (i.e. Usagi) speaks English in the fanfic (like in most), but every now and then says something in Japanese (i.e. arigato gozaimasu, gomen nasai). I don't mind -chan, -san, -sama, etc. But hearing the other stuff gets on my nerves, but only slightly. It's more of an annoyance, really. I mean, the characters speak Japanese. In the fanfic, they're going to speak English. But throwing in random Japanese makes it seem like the characters originally speak English. So that's why it annoys me. It's just a slight bother, though. It's not a major problem that would affect my opinion of a fic.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:40 pm

ParaKiss_Groupie wrote:The only thing that slightly get on my nerves in fanfics is when a character who was Japanese (i.e. Usagi) speaks English in the fanfic (like in most), but every now and then says something in Japanese (i.e. arigato gozaimasu, gomen nasai). I don't mind -chan, -san, -sama, etc. But hearing the other stuff gets on my nerves, but only slightly. It's more of an annoyance, really. I mean, the characters speak Japanese. In the fanfic, they're going to speak English. But throwing in random Japanese makes it seem like the characters originally speak English. So that's why it annoys me. It's just a slight bother, though. It's not a major problem that would affect my opinion of a fic.

I agree; that's somewhat of what I was saying. It would be like doing Hamlet with a Danish accent...there's no accent if they're already "speaking" Danish. Accents only occur when someone speaks ANOTHER language.

J Anderson · Post by **J Anderson** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 4:31 pm

I've run into 3 language usage situations-

1) characters speak english. Foreign sentence swill be printed in their language.

2) some characters speak english, others another language(typically a SM/US series crossover). I replace " with * for all non-english sentences, as the dialogue must be translated for the reader but the characters still may not understand the other.

3) characters speak Japanese. Just translate to english. Aside from name suffixes or proper names, no Japanese.

marspeach · Post by **marspeach** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:08 pm

It slightly annoys me when the whole fanfic is written in English and there are a few Japanese words inserted every now and then. It's just pointless I guess. It doesn't drive me crazy or anything, but I don't like it.

Tempest · Post by **Tempest** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:00 am

1) Even though I preach, "Freedom of Expression" in all honesty I think it's irritating to read japanese words mixed in with an "all english" FanFiction, excluding honorifics of course. I think it's mildly humorus if people are writing a comedy/tounge and cheek fiction, but It doesn't really mix well for a dramatic romance and such.

2) I think it's slightly prejeduce to say, "Americans should only write in the English language". This is where I put down the "Freedom of Expression" card. I beleive greatly in freedom of speech and the right to voice your opinion, but their is no need to degrade or be rude when you express it. Saying that people should stick to their language is both ignorant and childish. People are entitled to write anything that their creativity and heart tells them to, not to please total strangers.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 5:28 am

That's exactly what I was saying, Tempest! Except it wasn't just writing, they said people should only SPEAK in their language, which isn't just xenophobic, but ignorant of the many foreign loanwords we use in daily life. I wonder if he or she thinks that people who say "Sayonara" for goodbye are stupid anime fans thinking they know Japanese, when they might not have ever WATCHED any anime?

Cardcaptor Takato · Post by **Cardcaptor Takato** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:15 am

I dunno, it kind of gets on my nerves when people speak the Japanese language, even though they don't really know all of the language (same goes for other foreign languages). It just seems kind of pointless to me to speak a few measely words from another language, if you're not going to learn the whole language. Of course, I'm guilty of this myself, as I used to speak random Japanese phrases myself in the past over the Internet. Now, the only thing I use over the Internet are honorifics when I'm talking to someone in chat or in Instant Messengers, but I never use any of the random Japanese phrases and honorifics I've learned in real life.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:23 am

So, Cardcaptor Takato, does it bother you when people use foreign words in general? Does it bother you when Japanese people use English because they think it sounds neat, just like some anime fans use Japanese?

Starscream · Post by **Starscream** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:11 am

It does to me, Rainbow. I do it, and I get annoyed by it.

It's one thing to use words that have no transliteration into English - for example, salsa, sushi, or cul de sac - because you have no other choice in what words you can use. However, I hate hate HATE when comics or cartoons create foreign characters that speak English but throw in their own language for good effect.

Example: A Mexican saying, "Oh, this is MUY CALIENTE!" Mucha Lucha is notorious for this; we know you're Mexican by the forced accents you have.

The same in reverse is also true for me; just because you know some Japanese doesn't make you an expert on it. Say "goodbye", not "ja ne!", unless we've been talking in Japanese the whole time.

Example 2: Will Smith's "Miami" song...just no. I hated Smith for two weeks after it came out.

It really gets on my nerves when people try to impress others with another language by throwing out words they've just learned in class/on TV. In fanficts, I can deal with "chan" or "sama", since they don't have direct translations (I would use nicknames or other superlatives, personally), but when you're reading an English fic, and the word "Arigatoo!" comes out, I twitch, and a little vein pops in my head.

Sorry about my 2 cents, and if it offended anyone. I don't hate the people, just the speech.

Akarui Kibuno · Post by **Akarui Kibuno** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:22 am

My two cents as well:

I agree with the "popping Japanese words" as a pet peeve in fanfiction.

I mean, it's allright to use (I think) a "Arigato" sometimes. Sometimes, that is. Not as really replacing "thanks". It's when the author seems to have forgotten that he/she has another word in his/her language to use.

It's like we'd be saying "Arigato" instead of "thanks" in real life, all the time, just because anime characters use it.

As someone said, also, it annoys me to a great extent when someone uses words randomly without knowing the language. Like I'm using English cause I know the language, though it's not my native language at all. So I can use it in a fic even if the base is in French. And I can use French in a fic in English if I want, too.

But I don't know a word of Japanese, so I just stick to "Usako" (I mostly write BSSM fanfics) or words with -chan. Mostly. So I won't use a language I don't know :p

^_^

ParaKiss_Groupie · Post by **ParaKiss_Groupie** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:53 am

I don't mind hearing people throw in foreign languages when they speak. Me and my friends do it all the time. We use some Japanese as just little "slang" words. How different cliques have different phrases, we use Japanese every now and then. Plus, we're trying to learn the language. So it helps to try to speak it. Here's an example of the clique thing (it is very stereotypical, but its all I could think of)

Preppy clique: Phat, Sweet, Tight, etc.
Skater clique: (pronounced Sheh, no idea how to spell it)
Gangsta clique: various words with -izzle on them.
Me and my friends: Sugoi

It just kinda sets us apart from other people. However, I would never talk to someone I don't know using those words. For instance, I might say "baka" on a message board, but never something that is a me-and-my-friends thing.

marspeach · Post by **marspeach** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:50 pm

I don't mind using a few foreign words in speech, but I do in fanfiction. Why? I don't know. I'm currently trying to learn Japanese again (I took a class a few months ago but it got too expensive, so I didn't sign up for the next class) and sometimes I say "ja ne" or something like that. I don't care if other people say stuff, but in fanfiction, I don't like it. It just looks weird.

DistantMemory · Post by **DistantMemory** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:20 pm

I don't mind using a few foreign words in speech, but I do in fanfiction.

I agree with you on that one. Whenever I'm with my friends, we insert Japanese words just for the fun of it; we don't try to make ourselves sound like experts. But for whatever reason, I get a little annoyed when I see them in fanfics, especially when they things like "Usagi/Serena and Mamoru/Darien did whatever and met so-and-so and blah blah blah"...

Yeah... I guess in my case, it's instinct.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:52 pm

Starscream wrote: Example: A Mexican saying, "Oh, this is MUY CALIENTE!" Mucha Lucha is notorious for this; we know you're Mexican by the forced accents you have.

But don't sometimes foreign people accidentally revert to their old language, especially when they get emotional? I'm not sure if this is a good example or not, but on the original Ranma 1/2, Shampoo reverts to Chinese a lot.

ParaKiss_Groupie · Post by **ParaKiss_Groupie** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:56 pm

Rainbow wrote:
Starscream wrote: Example: A Mexican saying, "Oh, this is MUY CALIENTE!" Mucha Lucha is notorious for this; we know you're Mexican by the forced accents you have.
But don't sometimes foreign people accidentally revert to their old language, especially when they get emotional? I'm not sure if this is a good example or not, but on the original Ranma 1/2, Shampoo reverts to Chinese a lot.

Shampoo also doesn't speak Japanese very well. She reverts to Chinese when she doesn't know how to say it in Japanese, or when she's not thinking enough to use Japanese. Whereas the Hispanic characters have perfect English, they just have fake, forced accents. Also, just because something is hot doesn't mean they're going to say its "Muy caliente." If they do, they're probably going to say it ALL in Spanish, not just two words.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 3:06 pm

I'm sorry, I probably shouldn't say that unless I've seen the show. I've never seen Mucha Lucha, so yeah, I guess it's like Hamlet with a Danish accent. I thought you were saying that it's bad to portray immigrant characters blurting out words in their native language.

Starscream · Post by **Starscream** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:39 pm

Nonono...it's allright for imaginary (and real life) characters to spit out words in their native language...heck, Spanish could be considered a "second" for me, but I was raised with it, and I occassionally find the need to swear in Spanish because it fits the mood better :P

What I can't stand is the stereotyped foreigner that are ALWAYS using foreign phrases to sound "cool" to the viewers. I realize some recent immigrants would have a hard time with English, but I have yet to here any of them suddenly burst out with their native language in regular speech ^^;

Post by **Tiff** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:45 pm

ParaKiss_Groupie wrote:I don't mind hearing people throw in foreign languages when they speak. Me and my friends do it all the time. We use some Japanese as just little "slang" words. How different cliques have different phrases, we use Japanese every now and then. Plus, we're trying to learn the language. So it helps to try to speak it. Here's an example of the clique thing (it is very stereotypical, but its all I could think of)
*EDITED FOR SPACE*

I feel the same way. Hell, Derek and I are always running around going "WAI!". You should see me when I find something Hello Kitty. My voice goes up about two octaves and I go "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIII."

^^;

I'm trying to learn the language, and using it in speech has helped me with pronunciation. A LOT. So I see nothing wrong with it so long as you are at least using it correctly (or trying very, very hard), accept that you're wrong when you're wrong, and are using around people who understand you. I wouldn't burst ou with "Ogenki desu?" in my classes, becuase i'm the only one who gets it.

crazydiamond · Post by **crazydiamond** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:50 pm

a. Make sure the foreign words are defined, either during the story itself by one of the characters, or are in a dictionary supplement to the story.

It really really bothers me when a ficwriter, or ANY writer for that matter, uses a foreign word or phrase and doesn't translate it SOMEWHERE. It's frustrating, because whether you realize it or not, you're trying to figure out what that word/phrase means the rest of the time you're reading the fic. Even if that phrase is "popular," it should be defined SOMEWHERE. An example of this was a Saturn fic I read and the VERY FIRST WORDS were "<goodnight> Hime-chan" (note: I translated "goodnight" because I can't remember what the Japanese phrase was. It had 'nasai' in it, which really threw me off) It took me three days to figure out what that meant. This is why, when any of my characters speak a foreign language (I don't write fics, but I write), I either have someone around them repeat what they are saying in English, or have the person themselves translate, but I ALWAYS include a dictionary at the end or beginning.