Strange List: Anti-Anime or Not?

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:24 pm

http://web.archive.org/web/200103311016 ... ts/95.html

This is a list of someone's rules I found on a different forum (it was being discussed there). Some of the rules I agree with, especially about not hating dubs/dub lovers and the thing about not thinking that Sailor Moon's name HAS to be written as "Sailormoon." Personally, that last thing makes no sense, especially when those same people who say that and then write the attacks (especially Mars's Aku Ryo Tai San) with spaces in them as if the names have to follow the Japanese rules and the attacks/transformation phrases/whatever don't. Even when the Japanese is romanized in most Japanese language textbooks it's not all run together.

But there are some things I disagree with and make me wonder if this person is either someone who's watched too many bad anime he/she didn't like or met some annoying anime fans and then judged from there (most of these are paraphrased quotes, probably):
1) "If you say 'I'm glad I got my fansubs,' get over it." Okay, but what about anime that's not even dubbed? How else are you going to get to see it? This person REALLY hates fansubbing and seems to be against most fanworks, especially the things he/she says about webpages--he/she says that making even a happy shrine to a beloved character is a waste time. Now I've heard that said about anti-sites, but?!

2) He/she says there's something wrong with wanting to see Pokemon in its original language. Huh? Even I'm not a "purist" or "elitist" and I'd still like to see it in Japanese, even out of curosity.

3) And some of the things about cosplaying were kind of odd too, what was that about not just wearing the same costume every year?! This is contradicting itself; buying/making a new anime character costume every year is, once again, buying more luxury items.

The main thing that got me mad was the contradicting stuff. I do understand that the anger at fansubs has to do with them being technically illegal, but telling people they shouldn't be glad to have them?! Why not?

Edit: I just looked at another part of their site and now it seems like they might actually BE an anime fan. Some of this just confuses me now, especially that I just saw that. Maybe they're just someone who just wants anime that's on the commercial market or something.

LadyFlameSniper · Post by **LadyFlameSniper** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:09 pm

Some of the rules I agree with, especially about not hating dubs/dub lovers and the thing about not thinking that Sailor Moon's name HAS to be written as "Sailormoon." Personally, that last thing makes no sense, especially when those same people who say that and then write the attacks (especially Mars's Aku Ryo Tai San) with spaces in them as if the names have to follow the Japanese rules and the attacks/transformation phrases/whatever don't. Even when the Japanese is romanized in most Japanese language textbooks it's not all run together.

Well usually when a katakana phrase is romanized the words don't have any spaces. Unless it's a first name and last name written in katakana. Dots are placed to show where the first word ends. But when putting the word into actual English (ie: Sailor Mars over Seeraamaazu) spaces are added most of the time.

The whole thing sounds really nitpicky, although I have gotten into this habit of typing the name of the series as Sailormoon and the character as Sailor Moon. Can't rememeber how or why I did either

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Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:34 pm

The thing that weirds me out, though, is when people demand that "Seeramuun" is the name of the character because that's the literal romanization. The problem is, the attacks and the Senshi names are in English already; it's just pronounced with a Japanese accent. New York City isn't written as "New Yawk" on maps just because some people from there pronounce it that way. Same thing with the romanization of words that were already in English--if you don't realize that the word isn't originally Japanese, you're going to end up playing "telephone" with the words.

peachvampiress · Post by **peachvampiress** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:53 pm

This list reminds me of something Maddox would write 0__o; (if you don't know who that is, you probably don't want to know).

Some things I agree with, like don't take stuff to seriously. But the comments like "get a life" "play a sport" are just borderline prickish. Maybe it's a joke, but if you're writing a 95 point list on anime related stuff that nitpicks everything and potentially offends people, you really don't have any place telling people to get a life.

Sailorasteroid · Post by **Sailorasteroid** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:43 pm

OK, I could do a point-by point response to all those points, but I doubt anyone wants to see that, so let's say this:
24-94 I generally agree with, and for a few I don't, it's not offensive. now, that's almost 75%, and that's pretty darn good, but the rest I'm pretty riled at. Let me address two specificities, and the the general point.

Sailormoon is a perfectly viable option for the name of both the show and the character. Compound words exist all over the language, and if we want to make one out of the names, it's up to the fandom. And for the record, fan names like mine are whatever the person wants it to be. I'm Sailorasteroid, not Sailor Asteroid. I won't bug anyone for saying it the other way, and since you guys are all my friends you can call me whatever you want ^_^, but I like the smooshed-together construct.

7. Children's anime aired on television in the west is neither the time nor the place for discussion of nonstandard (for the country in which the show is aired) religious or sexual views; don't bother complaining about what had to be left out because it simply wouldn't fly.

OK, but you don't get to determine what's children's anime. If the lesbianism is Sailormoon S is too much for American children, then don't make it a kids show, and cater to the adult fans. Either that, or take a stand and show kids the concept. Pardon my vulgarity, but American anime producers, heck American culture in general, needs to grow a pair.

Here's the main thing though: what I think the list-writer is saying in the main is that caring more about anime than "real life" is wrong. No, it isn't. I've done a rant like this before (6 paragraphs down), but maybe what we need is a comparison. You know what, when I see someone who dedicates their time to finding a marital partner, getting a better job, playing a sport, or having a traditional hobby like woodwork, I want to say to them, "Get a life!" Get into a library, get to a movie theater, get in front of the TV and watch some anime. Because the other stuff is what I consider a waste of time. Think with your brain for once instead of your heart, your wallet, or your body. You're all pathetic.

No, I don't really think that way. I think that any human happiness is a good thing, and if that's what you truly want, go for it. I want the world of anime. I want to see the shows as they were meant to be, I want it to transcend "cartoons" and become something important and eternal. Why do people like the list-writer feel the need to turn me into them? Are they so insecure in their choice that anyone who disagrees with them is a threat to their happiness? Or are they just genuinely misguided and think that I'd be happier if I weren't entrenched in otakudom? Whatever the case, my message remains, "In the name of our fellow humanity, shut up."

Dinozore · Post by **Dinozore** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:28 pm

14. "Anime" in English has come to mean "animation produced in Japan." "Anime" in Japanese refers to any animated work; in Japan, Bugs Bunny is as much anime as Mazinger. Therefore, if a show on US TV has been modified for broadcast, it's still anime even if the plot is only vaguely related to the original (witness Speed Racer); furthermore, there is no need to have a stroke if someone refers to anime as "cartoons."

That's a real good point he's making here. It really bugs me how some people flip out when someone does that.

23. The purchase of a series for US distribution is a cause for joy, not for sorrow.

*points vehemently to the above quote* I'm sick of people saying "(blank) was licensed, oh no. The company will do something horrible to it!" Unless 4Kids got it (and maybe not even then, if they give all their series the subtitled releases Shaman King and Yu-gi-oh are getting), you shouldn't be complaining.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:36 pm

Dinozore wrote:
14. "Anime" in English has come to mean "animation produced in Japan." "Anime" in Japanese refers to any animated work; in Japan, Bugs Bunny is as much anime as Mazinger. Therefore, if a show on US TV has been modified for broadcast, it's still anime even if the plot is only vaguely related to the original (witness Speed Racer); furthermore, there is no need to have a stroke if someone refers to anime as "cartoons."
That's a real good point he's making here. It really bugs me when people flip out when someone does that.

Me too, I really agree with that one. Especially since I like animated stuff better than live-action anyway; for one thing I can handle watching more intense situations if they're animated. There's a lot of stuff I'd watch on anime that I wouldn't on "real movies."

LadyFlameSniper · Post by **LadyFlameSniper** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:45 pm

Yeah that is a good point. people need to stop flipping out when somebody calls anime a cartoon. And I also agree with

4. Anime is not punk rock; if it pains you that so many people are getting interested in it, find another scene to go save, like Bollywood cinema. If you're bent out of shape that so many "new" fans run around talking about how much they love the televised editions of Pokemon or Sailor Moon, remember that everyone had to start somewhere, even you.

some fans bitch and whine over the fact that anime is becoming more mainstream and I think it's ridiculous that they do.

The following was somewhat contracdtictory however, unless I'm intepreting it incorrectly.

83. Bubblegum Crisis, Sailor Moon, Tenchi, Dragon Ball, and Ranma are fine shows that introduced many people to anime, but they are not the be all end all of anime; please move on.
84. You are not smarter, prettier, or a better person because you like certain shows and consider other shows "beneath" you; neither are you smarter, prettier, or a better person for dismissing someone for liking what you do not. You are also not smarter, prettier, or a better person because you started watching anime before your buddies.

They're saying to move on from those series that they listed. But according to the first part of # 84, if you like one of those shows they mentioned best, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:16 pm

LadyFlameSniper wrote: some fans bitch and whine over the fact that anime is becoming more mainstream and I think it's ridiculous that they do.

Definitely. I mean, even though I say things like "I'm weird and proud of it," anime becoming mainstream means I can find it in stores better. Not to bash fansubs, but I've found that looking in stores for anime is more reliable than getting fansubs, especially if we're talking about the time it takes to send them in the mail.

Starscream · Post by **Starscream** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:05 pm

LOOOONG Post ahead, so if the admins don't like it, I'll edit it.

Yeah, I slogged through that long - and somewhat conceited - post, and I have issues with an number of points; I'll only mention the more standout points here:

WHAT I TAKE ISSUE WITH:

6. Pokemon, Card Captor Sakura, Sailor Moon, et al are toy ads in Japan and they're toy ads in the states. If you spend time arguing about how much better the Japanese edition of Pocket Monsters is than Pokemon, we encourage you to jump off a bridge. If you are buying Pokemon fansubs so that you can see the "pure" version, you deserve to get ripped off.

Sailormoon and Cardcaptor Sakura have actual stories that were relatively butchered in the States and other places. Nothing wrong with wanting to see the original...

8. In English, "Sailor Moon" is two words. None of this "Sailoryournamehere" nonsense.

According to whom? Plenty of Japanese merchandise says "Sailormoon", etc.

10. Honorific suffixes have little to no place in translated anime. (The only exception is that characters involved in the practice of kendo may call their teachers "sensei" and their classmates "senpai.")

"Senpai" = "Upper classman". Awkward? Maybe, but no more so than "Master Queen Metaria" = "Queen Metaria-sama". I've actually become rather fond of all honorifics or all translations; none of this half-and-half BS.

22. If you are downloading and viewing entire episodes of a show online, please take up a sport. If you are the one encoding, uploading, and storing the episodes (and you're not doing this under contract with the license holder), please take up a potentially deadly sport.

Get off your high horse. Plenty of anime fans D/L subs and have good social lives outside their hobby.

52. If you're considering doing a website on a very popular series, particularly one such as Sailor Moon that has ceased production, reconsider very carefully that you absolutely have something unique to contribute to the discussion of this work.

Essays, fanart, fanfics, etc, are always popping up; parody sites are always a riot if done well.

53. Web page review squads: Who asked you?

I don't see them prying your eyes open and forcing you to go to their site.

89. Final Fantasy 8 is not the Greatest Love Story of Our Time.

Opinion. Who are you to say what's romantic and what's not?

Now, a few nitpicks that I'd like to have fun with:

63. Nobody wants to hear your MST3K comments during public screenings.

Why not? If the screened anime is bad, I think fans have a right to publicly humiliate the animation, actors, subbing, cel painter, VCR, the dog, etc....

33. If there's a chick who's cosplaying in something tight or revealing, do not ogle her...Compliment the costume and move along.

Look...no matter how gentlemanly or self-restrained, a straight, non-celebate male can't HELP but look at a girl wearing nothing but a physics-defying getup. Legs, butt, chest...the minute our eyes see them, our upper brains turn off and our lower ones activate. All it takes is a nice jab in the ribs from a significant other to jostle us into coherence...in the mean time, though, little Starscream is in control...

*gets smacked in the back of the head with a cast-iron skillet by Ni-Ban Neko, dies* Damn...x_X

Dinozore · Post by **Dinozore** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:20 pm

"Master Queen Metaria" = "Queen Metaria-sama"

O.o Where did you get "Metaria" from? I've always seen it spelled "Metallia"...

peachvampiress · Post by **peachvampiress** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:22 pm

LadyFlameSniper

The following was somewhat contracdtictory however, unless I'm intepreting it.
83. Bubblegum Crisis, Sailor Moon, Tenchi, Dragon Ball, and Ranma are fine shows that introduced many people to anime, but they are not the be all end all of anime; please move on.
84. You are not smarter, prettier, or a better person because you like certain shows and consider other shows "beneath" you; neither are you smarter, prettier, or a better person for dismissing someone for liking what you do not. You are also not smarter, prettier, or a better person because you started watching anime before your buddies.

I think what he meant is that people should try shows that don't have a huge fan base. I think he thinks that some fans won't try a show unless one million people like it as well.

Starscream

Look...no matter how gentlemanly or self-restrained, a straight, non-celebate male can't HELP but look at a girl wearing nothing but a physics-defying getup. Legs, butt, chest...the minute our eyes see them, our upper brains turn off and our lower ones activate. All it takes is a nice jab in the ribs from a significant other to jostle us into coherence...in the mean time, though, little Starscream is in control...

*gets smacked in the back of the head with a cast-iron skillet by Ni-Ban Neko, dies* Damn...x_X

XD I'm guessing there was an inncident at a con and now Ni-Ban will only let you go to cons if you're wearing a blindfold ~_^.

Post by **Tiff** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:25 pm

Dinozore wrote:
"Master Queen Metaria" = "Queen Metaria-sama"
O.o Where did you get "Metaria" from? I've always seen it spelled "Metallia"...

Well, since the Japanese really don't distinguish between "r" and "l", i think he's basing it on pronunciation. It's just "Sera Muun." I've seen THAT plenty of times, so "Metaria" can be just as correct, IMO.

peachvampiress · Post by **peachvampiress** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:28 pm

Also, in the new PGSM comics, Metaria is apparently spelled out in English that way.

LadyFlameSniper · Post by **LadyFlameSniper** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:35 pm

Peachvampiress: Ok thanks for sorting that out. I see what he meant now.

Starscream wrote: Get off your high horse. Plenty of anime fans D/L subs and have good social lives outside their hobby.

Yeah I totally fail to see how downloading fansubs automatically means you have no social life. o_O You don't have to sit in front of your computer 24/7 to download them, for one thing.

ParaKiss_Groupie · Post by **ParaKiss_Groupie** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:53 pm

To quote Kestrel...

"Hi pot. This is kettle. He's black."

I agree with some of this guy's comments. When people are just completely obsessed with something, they irk me. However, I'm not gonna be mean about it. I'm happy they like it, I just don't quite share their degree of enthusiasm. However, for the most part, this guy needs to examine himself. For someone so into telling people to get a life, he must have a whole lot of time on his hands. Perhaps he should "try a sport." Perhaps a "potentially dangerous one."

Starscream · Post by **Starscream** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:19 pm

Dinozore wrote:Where did you get "Metaria" from?

peachvampiress wrote:Also, in the new PGSM comics, Metaria is apparently spelled out in English that way.

That, and in PGSM Live Action, the subbers have taken to using "Metaria" for the romanization, as well. I HAD been using Metallia up until then; however, with the new canonicity established in the reprinted comics, I've taken to this new spelling of its name.

peachvampiress wrote:
Starscream wrote:Look...no matter how gentlemanly or self-restrained, a straight, non-celebate male can't HELP but look at a girl wearing nothing but a physics-defying getupl...(snip snip)

*gets smacked in the back of the head with a cast-iron skillet by Ni-Ban Neko, dies* Damn...x_X
XD I'm guessing there was an inncident at a con and now Ni-Ban will only let you go to cons if you're wearing a blindfold ~_^.

Not yet, thank goodness, but I'd imagine a similar situation - replacing frypan with some other heavy, blunt object - would occur should such a situation present itself >_>

ParaKiss_Groupie wrote:However, for the most part, this guy needs to examine himself. For someone so into telling people to get a life, he must have a whole lot of time on his hands. Perhaps he should "try a sport." Perhaps a "potentially dangerous one."

Aye. It's one thing to hold a set of beliefs - fine. But again, one must wonder the kind of free time this person has if he could compile such a needlessly complicated and thorough "annoyances" list...