What did watching the dub make you believe?

[No-Brand Hero]

In the original version not only are the senshi other than Sailor Moon killed, but the battle with Beryl wasn't so direct. Usagi wished on the ginzuishou (silver crystal) that she could live a normal life, and since doing so would mean destroying the evil Beryl, it was done, and that's why they lost their memories. I also got the impression, and I may be wrong, that ifUsagi had actually released the ginzuishou's power toward the specific end of destroying Beryl, she would have had to sacrifice her own life to do so, as Queen Serenity did.

That's not quite correct.

Usagi's battle with Beryl was very direct. She used the ginzuishou to destroy her, and then died. It was her /dying/ wish, after Beryl was already destroyed, that everyone could have lived a normal life. The voiceover for this is done very regretfully, as it's something she believes none of them will ever have.

The Ginzuishou takes this literally and erases the events of the past year (but doesn't bother to resurrect the Dark Kingdom). Thus, none of them died, but none of them became Sailors either. That's the part that always makes me tear up, that they don't remember each other, since before they met Usagi, all the others were rather unhappy individuals.

But if you pay attention, the final scene of the series, with Naru and Usagi discussing Usagi's grades and Usagi hitting Mamoru in the head with her test..is a replaying of one of the first scenes in the series. The differences being that Naru's mother hasn't been replaced with a youma, so Naru hasn't been dragged aside and is thus with Usagi. And also that since Osa-P isn't where Jadeite's first plan is going down, Mamoru isn't looking at the building suspiciously, but is rather watching Usagi instead.

But my point is..it doesn't matter what the intent is. Using the ginzuishou for anything major = death. The SMR Movie shows us this Usagi usually gets around this by cheating (IE: taking energy from everyone around her, or, most amusingly, there being 2 ginzuishous and each user wishing the other user wouldn't die).

[Tiff]

No-Brand Hero: excellent analysis. I agree completely, and it makes perfect sense.

But if you pay attention, the final scene of the series, with Naru and Usagi discussing Usagi's grades and Usagi hitting Mamoru in the head with her test..is a replaying of one of the first scenes in the series. The differences being that Naru's mother hasn't been replaced with a youma, so Naru hasn't been dragged aside and is thus with Usagi. And also that since Osa-P isn't where Jadeite's first plan is going down, Mamoru isn't looking at the building suspiciously, but is rather watching Usagi instead.

I NEVER realized that, and now that you've pointed it out...it seems to make more sense, and fall into place.

[Sailorasteroid]

Usagi's battle with Beryl was very direct. She used the ginzuishou to destroy her, and then died. It was her /dying/ wish, after Beryl was already destroyed, that everyone could have lived a normal life. The voiceover for this is done very regretfully, as it's something she believes none of them will ever have.

Hmm. . .I'd never looked at it like that, but I think it might be seen either way. The voice-over comes after Beryl was consumed by the expanding light of the Ginzuishou, but also after Sailor Moon is hit by it. So it has to be some kind of flashback. You might see it as flashing back to right before her life left her, but I think it's flashing back to the moment she released the Ginzuishou's power, partially because I find it difficult to believe that she could tell the Ginzuishou to "change course" so to speak, but more so because of the content of the wish. You're right in saying it's in a regretful tone, but it's not dying Sailor Moon regrets--it's fighting in the first place. And that's a sentiment more likely to come in the middle of a battle, especially for Usagi.

Perhaps this is something the dub is *still* making me believe. In the dub, there is no wish; it makes it seem as if the energy release is what reversed time. So I may still be seeing it that way because of my first experience.

But having Sailor Moon not destroy Beryl (or seal her, as she mentions as her last words) directly also seems to fit in with one of the major themes of the show, presented more strongly in the battles with Neherenia and Galaxia, and also being explored in PGSM; that theme being that for the truly evil to be defeated, it's not enough to simply have power working against it, it has to be power working for a specific good end, in this case, Usagi's "normal life."

But my point is..it doesn't matter what the intent is. Using the ginzuishou for anything major = death. The SMR Movie shows us this Usagi usually gets around this by cheating (IE: taking energy from everyone around her, or, most amusingly, there being 2 ginzuishous and each user wishing the other user wouldn't die).

That is, I think, true. She would have died, as did Queen Serenity, if she hadn't made The Wish. What you call cheating I think the show is saying is Usagi's (and, where applicable, Chibiusa's)goodness, innocence, and occasional ingenuity/inspiration. Sailormoon is not a tragedy, and though death may be set up to make the end that much sweeter, it's never something that's permanent. (Please, PGSM, back me up on this! ^_^)

[No-Brand Hero]

So it has to be some kind of flashback. You might see it as flashing back to right before her life left her, but I think it's flashing back to the moment she released the Ginzuishou's power, partially because I find it difficult to believe that she could tell the Ginzuishou to "change course" so to speak, but more so because of the content of the wish. You're right in saying it's in a regretful tone, but it's not dying Sailor Moon regrets--it's fighting in the first place. And that's a sentiment more likely to come in the middle of a battle, especially for Usagi.

I don't think it's any sort of flashback at all. I think that's Usagi inside the big glow, slowly dying. The tone of voice is all wrong for coming in the middle of a battle, and the voiceover itself lasts half as long as the entire battle, a battle in which she was saying all kinds of things that weren't "I wish I wasn't here".

Also, Artemis comments that "Everyone" was transmigrated. Not "Usagi resurrected everyone". Basically, everything points to the fact that Usagi was dying and used the last little bit of power she had left to make one last wish.

In fact, she does the /EXACT/ same thing that Queen Serenity does. After she seals away the Dark Kingdom and is laying there dying, she raises the crystal again and transmigrates everyone into the distant future. Usagi just included herself on the 'to live again' list and went for "One year ago" rather than "Distant future".

But having Sailor Moon not destroy Beryl (or seal her, as she mentions as her last words) directly also seems to fit in with one of the major themes of the show, presented more strongly in the battles with Neherenia and Galaxia, and also being explored in PGSM; that theme being that for the truly evil to be defeated, it's not enough to simply have power working against it, it has to be power working for a specific good end, in this case, Usagi's "normal life."

That theme /only/ exists for Neherenia and Galaxia as far as the leaders of the Bad Guys of the Season is concerned. Usagi never once expresses any sort of desire to heal Beryl, obliterates Wiseman/Death Phantom without even an apology, and nobody ever even stops to think if maybe Master Pharaoh 90 is an OK guy underneath it all

The theme of the first three seasons, when it comes to the final battles, is redeeming the ones you love who have gone astray. All three seasons follow the same pattern.
1: Loved one kidnapped, turned evil. (Mamoru/Dark Kingdom Endymion, Chibi-Usa/Black Lady, Hotaru/Mistress 9).
2: Usagi redeems loved one.
3: Usagi and loved one team up to destroy the Big Bad. (Yes, even in the first season. It's Mamoru's rose that forces Beryl to seek Metallia's aid, after all).


But really, the biggest supporting factor to my argument is that..well..everyone in the series backs me up on it. Every time Usagi whips out the crystal, the entire cast says (Sometimes in unison) "Don't use the Silver Crysal, you'll die!".

The closest anyone comes to supporting your view of things is at the end of R when Neo Queen Serenity says that Usagi and Chibi-Usa's wish to protect each other saved their lives, but she also mentions that this is a miracle and only possible because there were two ginzuishous at the time. Thus implying that simply wishing to "Protect everyone" with just one ginzuishou would result in death.

[Sailorasteroid]

I don't think it's any sort of flashback at all. I think that's Usagi inside the big glow, slowly dying. The tone of voice is all wrong for coming in the middle of a battle, and the voiceover itself lasts half as long as the entire battle, a battle in which she was saying all kinds of things that weren't "I wish I wasn't here".

That's exactly what she's saying when she's arguing with Queen Beryl. Beryl says the world is corrupt and evil, and Sailor Moon says that she believes in it. Her mind was definitely on her home life during the battle. Also, she seems to fall unconscious before the light reaches her, and after it does, there's a shot of her spiraling down. To me, this says that she's not in a position to think or wish anything at that point, and that whatever will happen is already taking place, irrevocably. Furthermore, there's no visual to indicate anything magical happening after she finishes her wish, just a cut to the results.

Also, Artemis comments that "Everyone" was transmigrated. Not "Usagi resurrected everyone". Basically, everything points to the fact that Usagi was dying and used the last little bit of power she had left to make one last wish.

Just going by the subtitles, he says everyone "returns" without saying how. He also says that it's a "miracle," which ties in with he and Luna believing she had to die if she used the Ginzuishou.

In fact, she does the /EXACT/ same thing that Queen Serenity does. After she seals away the Dark Kingdom and is laying there dying, she raises the crystal again and transmigrates everyone into the distant future. Usagi just included herself on the 'to live again' list and went for "One year ago" rather than "Distant future".

Where and when does this occur?

But having Sailor Moon not destroy Beryl (or seal her, as she mentions as her last words) directly also seems to fit in with one of the major themes of the show, presented more strongly in the battles with Neherenia and Galaxia, and also being explored in PGSM; that theme being that for the truly evil to be defeated, it's not enough to simply have power working against it, it has to be power working for a specific good end, in this case, Usagi's "normal life."

That theme /only/ exists for Neherenia and Galaxia as far as the leaders of the Bad Guys of the Season is concerned. Usagi never once expresses any sort of desire to heal Beryl,

Before she releases the Ginzuishou's power, she tries the Moon Healing Escalation, which if successful wouldn't have necessitated her calling the other senshi and releasing the power. It's only because Beryl has Mettalia's dark energy within her that enables her to resist the healing.

obliterates Wiseman/Death Phantom without even an apology, and nobody ever even stops to think if maybe Master Pharaoh 90 is an OK guy underneath it all

She forces her heart out through her chest trying to get enough power to stop Pharaoh 90's destruction, because she doesn't want to see Sailor Saturn use her sacrificial power.

But really, the biggest supporting factor to my argument is that..well..everyone in the series backs me up on it. Every time Usagi whips out the crystal, the entire cast says (Sometimes in unison) "Don't use the Silver Crysal, you'll die!".

I quite agree that using it would have killed her, and that some sacrifice is needed to use the power. But there's a fairness to the ends of all the series which may be indicitive that the Ginzuishou is an item of justice as well as power. And while it may have been just for Queen Serenity to lay down her life for her people as a queen is supposed to, it was not just to ask 14-year-old Tsukino Usagi to do the same. So her sacrifice is her memories and fighting powers instead.

[Tiff]

In fact, she does the /EXACT/ same thing that Queen Serenity does. After she seals away the Dark Kingdom and is laying there dying, she raises the crystal again and transmigrates everyone into the distant future. Usagi just included herself on the 'to live again' list and went for "One year ago" rather than "Distant future".

Where and when does this occur?

He's talking about Queen Serenity doing that. It happens in the whole Silver Millenium flashback episode. She's laying on a pillar of the destroyed kingdom, and raises her wand to send everyone to the future.

[Setsana626]

Haruka and Michiru were cousins,not lesbians.


Rini was sailor moon's cousin.

[usachan]

I don't believe I ever posted here before. It only made me believe a couple of things.
The girls lived in Chinatown, explaining the kanji on some bulidings.
Zoicite was a girl.
Haruna was uptight, when she was just like her students in many ways in Japanese!
I believed the daifuku in episode 30 were funny looking cupcakes, because Luna said they were cupcakes.
That's all I can think of.

[Rivalee]

well, I know that it is the US-dub you´re talking about, but since I first watched the swedish dub, I´ll post my thought from that dub. It´s ok, right?

I thought that;
1. Zoisite was a woman (who hadn´t?)
2. Kunta was Kunzite´s real name
3. Usagi´s, Shingo´s, Queen Beryl´s and Naru´s names really was Annie, Shino, Queen Morga and Lima
4. The Dark Kingdom-battle lasted 88 episodes.
5. There was only 3 Sailor-heroines (until I saw the Sailor Barbie-dolls)
6. Then I thought that Venus was Jupiter and Jupiter was Venus
7. I thought that Luna was the princess
8. Mamoru really was a meanie
9. The voice in the computer was Sailor V´s (it was a female voice)
10. It was hamburger the boy was eating in ep.4

What I never realized was;
1. The show was placed in Tokyo, Japan (still, all the japanese letters and the song in episode 22 was untouched, except the title)
2. There were more than 1 season
3. When I heard that there was four more seasons, I thought that the other seasons replaced moon and the other girls with other soldiers (I had readed that Moon and co was killed in the first season, but not that they was revived right after)
4. There was a manga (when I hearded about that, I thought it was a comic a fan made)

well, that´s all...

[devilmaykickass]

The gender changes were about it.

Well that and the Spice Girls were endorsing the last few episodes of SuperS.

[SailorSpace]

I believed that there was really a civilization on the Moon, so I really wanted to go.

Whenever I wore my dresses, and put my hair up, I thought I was a Moon Princess.

[devilmaykickass]

I believed that there was really a civilization on the Moon, so I really wanted to go.

Whenever I wore my dresses, and put my hair up, I thought I was a Moon Princess.

Ha ha?

[SailorSpace]

Hey come on, I was six when I first saw this, dude.

[devilmaykickass]

Hey come on, I was six when I first saw this, dude.

Ok then all is forgiven.

The dub also made me believe that Ann and Ali(sp?) were former employees of Queen Beryl, and that the "scouts" were in High School during the Doom Tree Arc and on (because Ali said that Queen Beryl had told them about Earth and it's energy from humans, and he said to Ann that they were to enroll in the local High School, which was the school the scouts attended).

[SailorSpace]

The dub made me believe whenever I shouted "Moon Prism Power" or anyother transformation name, I could turn into a scout.

Sailor Pluto really controlled time (I'd always say "Pluto, please make time go forward so I can be older!")

[TheresaJ]

* That it would be wonderful to live on the moon XD
* That Rei hated Usagi ;x;
* That Mamoru was a mean, cold-hearted prick.
* That Luna actually sounded like a Nanny
* That Usagi had no strength to her.

[SailorSpace]

Well... With the way SM was butchered to death, I was made to believe that SM was a cartoon from America, and not from Japan.

[ilovethesailorsenshi]

i dunno what to think... except what the hfil was up with the cuts of people hitting stuff, it didn't make any sense at all how anyone got hurt.

[#1SailorMoonFan]

N/A

[sailorperkytoot123]

The dub made me believe whenever I shouted "Moon Prism Power" or anyother transformation name, I could turn into a scout.

Sailor Pluto really controlled time (I'd always say "Pluto, please make time go forward so I can be older!")

Wow, I was about 2 years younger than you when the dub came out and I didn't think that stuff...except that I'm a boy and I wouldn't wear a dress and put my hair up. Something that confused me was that Zoycite was a woman in the dub, but in the english manga, they had actually kept Zoycite a man. Also, I believed that Sailor Moon could switch between transformations whenever she wanted. I thought one day she may feel like saying Moon Prism Power, the next day she wants to say Moon Crystal Power.