Monarchy in Sailor Moon

[Extropy]

I only liked Sailor Moon somewhat, but the reason I did not like it any more is because of the presence of monarchy in Sailor Moon. People got rid of Louis XVI in the French Revolution for a reason.

Also, there is this idea that somehow Sailor Moon is "better" than everybody else or "above" the rest, which implies that they are inherently unequal. This is a very creepy idea, and an example is in the first season where they said that Usagi and Makoto were the ones who could skate best. I am reminded of some old uses of the idea "I am (or we are) superior than everyone else, and everyone else is inferior, and are to respect us." People should be judged by their merit, not by some natural "superiority." This is also against the idea of equal opportunity, because then one is doomed to be inferior; instead, people should be able to achieve if they try. Also, no other person has ever overruled Usagi in making decisions. This is very troubling on the idea that Usagi is infallible. There is nobody who is infallible, and refusal to admit that leads to results like George Bush.

[Tiff]

I only liked Sailor Moon somewhat, but the reason I did not like it any more is because of the presence of monarchy in Sailor Moon. People got rid of Louis XVI in the French Revolution for a reason.

...Becuase Louis XVI was perhaps a bad ruler? Queen and Neo Queen Serenity seem to be pretty generous, kind, and good people. They certainly aren't the type to chop off peoples' heads, or to turn the kingdom into some tyrannical place where there are class systems and the like. That's hardly a good comparison.

Also, there is this idea that somehow Sailor Moon is "better" than everybody else or "above" the rest, which implies that they are inherently unequal. This is a very creepy idea, and an example is in the first season where they said that Usagi and Makoto were the ones who could skate best.

...And yet sailor moon/usagi is SO often put down for how clumsy, "stupid", slow, and cowardly she is. How is that "better"?

o.O And how is saying someone can skate better than someone else somehow putting them in some holy superior light? Some people ARE better at certain skills/talents than others. Makoto is extremely athletic, so it would make sense that she can skate well. And Serenity probably had some sort of training that led her to become a good skater.

I am reminded of some old uses of the idea "I am (or we are) superior than everyone else, and everyone else is inferior, and are to respect us." People should be judged by their merit, not by some natural "superiority." This is also against the idea of equal opportunity, because then one is doomed to be inferior; instead, people should be able to achieve if they try. Also, no other person has ever overruled Usagi in making decisions. This is very troubling on the idea that Usagi is infallible. There is nobody who is infallible, and refusal to admit that leads to results like George Bush.

And i'm trying to figure out WHERE Usagi EVER displays herself as someone who is better or superior than anyone else. Usagi NEVER one-ups herself, or brags, or boasts, or even remotely puts any of her friends down.

Usagi doesn't hvae good merit? I could list quite a few good qualities and honorable things she's done.

Usagi doesn't MAKE many decisions, at all. If anything, they're made by Luna, or made as a whole by the group.

I gotta say, your whole argument seems to be completely unbackable by any facts from the show.

[peachvampiress]

Well, it is a show for little girls, and shows like that tend to have princesses, princes, and queens in them. When Naoko wrote about Crystal Tokyo, she probably chose a monarchy as the political system since kids that age probably wouldn't understand what "democracy" and "politcal parties" mean. The concept of "the country's ruled by a King and Queen, and will be given to their heir, the Prince of Princess" is more wide known and easier to understand at that age.

[Extropy]

I think that regardless of how "good" a leader may be, they should not rule a place for too long of a period. Yes, she is kind-hearted, but the fact is that this is still a monarchy.

Undoubtedly, Serenity may be kind-hearted. If so, then one might conclude that she will not be as avaricious to oppress against others, and may gain that open-mindedness and intelligence over time. It takes a great distinctiveness for a monarch to be justified, and this may be it: kind-heartedness. But this is to imply that there are not other similarly kind-hearted people out there, and that she is truly superior than anyone else in this respect. I do not believe this so. I believe that people have the potential to be good and kind-hearted, and why should she be proclaimed to be naturally more kind-hearted than anyone else?

You have noted that she is not much better than anyone else in everything. I will note that this part is something I did like. It shows that one does not have to be a super-intelligent talented person in order to do great things. This is a good aspect of the show. In retrospect, I suppose that that suspicion is unfounded.

This does not resolve the idea of monarchy. There are only two possibilities:
1. The monarch is somehow distinctive, and this is the reason why the monarchy is justified.
2. The monarch is not in any way distinctive, so there is no reason why this person rather than someone else should be privileged.
The difficulty in justifying monarchy is thus that it elevates someone over everyone else. Even if they rule well, it is this itself that is the problem. If, indeed, everyone is equal in the show, then everyone else should have a chance to be the Queen. Think about it: what if Nelson Mandela became King of South Africa instead of serving a few years as president?

There is also the issue of the possibility of diversity of opinion. There are two possibilities:
1. Everyone has the same opinions on everything. This is not naturally possible because it is in the nature of humans to differ. The only way to do so is to destroy freedom of speech and thought.
2. People can differ. This implies that people can disagree with the queen. There will thus be factions of people against the Queen, and they will be oppressed.

[Senshi_of_Vision]

Ya know not to come across as a smart ass, but Peach and Tiff pretty much summed up the whole argument. Sure Monarchy in this day and age is pretty much a joke, but in fantasy many people still use royalty. Their is a quality to having princesses, princes and kings and queens. Im sure many little girls I know I did dreamt of being princesses or queens of our castle and thats what Sailor Moon caters to. Even in the manga she and the fellow senshi have their own kingdoms and castles. Its just fantasy, nothing to get so serious about.

Monarchy real life: bad to some.

Monarchy fantasy: a fun way to escape and pretend.

And many writers utilize this format so im guessing you dont like alot of books and shows other then sailor moon by your argument. I just chalk it up to its a cartoon show dude no need to turn it all political.

[Jeff]

You know, the country in which Sailor Moon was written is a constitutional monarchy (as democratic as they are, countries like Japan and the UK are not properly understood to be "republics"). Canada has a monarchy, and it's hardly "tyrannical." I think your argument is flawed.

Also, I hardly see what George W. Bush has to do with anything. As bad of a president as many people (myself included) think he is, he is the result of a democratic system. He was elected.

[Gamer8585]

I agree that the idea of a monarch is somewhat archaic, and no person has an intrinsic superiority over the other. However in the Past and the Future there is no way to measure how much political authority the monarchs have.

While it is assumed that Queen Serenity is a ruler of her people, she may just have been some kind of High Priestess or, assuming she is a more traditional monarch, may have been balanced out by some type of legislature made up of the nobility (the families of the other senshi to be sure). Many European kings had to contest with the nobles to maintain their power.

As for Crystal Tokyo, Usagi may very well have just been a figurehead. For example the King of England or the Emperor of Japan in modern times. They embody the spirit of the state and national tradition, but have no political function out side of, ceremonially, asking the strongest party in the legislature to appoint the executive. In fact, in England at least, it is considered impolite for anyone of the royal house to comment on any political matters (since it can be very divisive).

Although Usagi dose have one advantage that traditional monarchs did not. A very real symbol of divine power and authority, despite that I still have a hard time imagining her as capable of being an absolute monarch in the vain of Louis XIV. Hell, she can't even write with Kanji for Godsake...what Japanese person would take her seriously???

[Tiff]

Ina greement with Peach, Jeff, and Senshi_of_Vision. The argument has been pointed out in several ways to be flawed...and again, it's a fantasy cartoon. I highly doubt had Naoko written it to be political and democratic, without a happy little princess and a magical queen, that it would have been nearly as popular with its age bracket.

And come on...in just about EVERY magical story with a magical/superhero gropu, there is always a leader of some sort.

[Cardcaptor Takato]

Sailor Moon is this little thing called fiction: as in it's not real, fake, a figment of someone's imagination. It's target audience is little girls who dream about being princesses and being saved by a handsome prince (or in Sailor Moon's case, doing the saving themselves). I think you're taking this all a little too seriously. And if BOTH Usagi and Makoto are claimed to be the best skaters, how is that making Usagi superior if they're BOTH good skaters? Your proof is contradicting your claims. And since when does nobody try to over-rule Usagi? Did you skip the entire S season or something? For the entirety of S the Outers disagree with Usagi's decisions and are always arguing with her about how they should handle the battle against the Death Busters. Almost the whole last episode of S involves the Outers fighting against Usagi to force her to denounce her position as Queen. How is that not trying to over-rule her? Even in the R season the Black Moon forces begin their invasion because they are rebelling against being cleansed by the Silver Crystal. And in episode 89, the Inners are debating about who should be the main character in S but eventually come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter who the main character is, that they are at their strongest when they work together as a team. Sailor Moon's message isn't about Usagi being surperior to everyone else. It's about friendship and working together as a team. Your argument is baseless and just doesn't make sense.

[Tiff]

Sailor Moon is this little thing called fiction: as in it's not real, fake, a figment of someone's imagination. It's target audience is little girls who dream about being princesses and being saved by a handsome prince (or in Sailor Moon's case, doing the saving themselves). I think you're taking this all a little too seriously. And if BOTH Usagi and Makoto are claimed to be the best skaters, how is that making Usagi superior if they're BOTH good skaters? Your proof is contradicting your claims. And since when does nobody try to over-rule Usagi? Did you skip the entire S season or something? For the entirety of S the Outers disagree with Usagi's decisions and are always arguing with her about how they should handle the battle against the Death Busters. Almost the whole last episode of S involves the Outers fighting against Usagi to force her to denounce her position as Queen. How is that not trying to over-rule her? Even in the R season the Black Moon forces begin their invasion because they are rebelling against being cleansed by the Silver Crystal. And in episode 89, the Inners are debating about who should be the main character in S but eventually come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter who the main character is, that they are at their strongest when they work together as a team. Sailor Moon's message isn't about Usagi being surperior to everyone else. It's about friendship and working together as a team. Your argument is baseless and just doesn't make sense.

*applaudes* awesome response.

[Extropy]

I am aware that this is a children's show, and that there is no disagreement on the fact that monarchy is bad. It's just that it disturbed me on how it assumed that everyone would be willing to submit to Serenity, and its portrayals of such monarchistic societies as utopias, which is surely off. It is a fantasy, yes, but any idea of people single-singlemindedly submitting to one person still disturbs me regardless. Or perhaps it is just me and my current sensitivity and paranoia to everything that reeks of Big Brother.

Yes, I agree with the fact that Serenity was never shown to actually rule anyone or actually hold authority over others (and the fact that others have the option of disobeying her) is a sufficient answer. I have never thought about it, actually.

[Senshi_of_Vision]

Well I hope you dont think I was knocking your feelings on the monarchy but I think your whole topic would have been better in the off topic section as a vent or discussion on monarchy. For you to put it in the sailor moon topic then basically compare the character to Traditional Monarchial figures set me off. I cant speak for the others but I know that I try not to mix my political feelings with that of the show cause its mostly light hearted. When I need to rant about social structure or lack of the forums provides that section as well.

[Cardcaptor Takato]

I am aware that this is a children's show, and that there is no disagreement on the fact that monarchy is bad. It's just that it disturbed me on how it assumed that everyone would be willing to submit to Serenity, and its portrayals of such monarchistic societies as utopias, which is surely off. It is a fantasy, yes, but any idea of people single-singlemindedly submitting to one person still disturbs me regardless. Or perhaps it is just me and my current sensitivity and paranoia to everything that reeks of Big Brother.

Yes, I agree with the fact that Serenity was never shown to actually rule anyone or actually hold authority over others (and the fact that others have the option of disobeying her) is a sufficient answer. I have never thought about it, actually.

If the plot of Sailor Moon really bothers you so much, I have one really good suggestion for you: don't watch it. I mean, seriously, if you don't like Sailor Moon, why are you posting in the Sailor Moon forum of a site made for Sailor Moon fans to preach at us about how disturbing you think a show that we like is? And how is Sailor Moon anything remotely like Big Brother? Have you ever even read 1984 or do you just automatically assume that OMG anything queen = communist? And you obviously never grew up reading fairytales, have you? I mean, you might as well start preaching about the evils of Disney films given that every other Disney movie out there has this exact same type of "monarchy" Sailor Moon does yet you don't see Disney brainwashing kids into being communists, do you? And I still don't see what the point of your rant is.

[Tiff]

Yes, I agree with the fact that Serenity was never shown to actually rule anyone or actually hold authority over others (and the fact that others have the option of disobeying her) is a sufficient answer. I have never thought about it, actually.

Then....why make an argument about it? It sounds to me like this whole thing is more of an expression of, as you yourself put it, "your fear of big brother" and such.

[NameGoesHere]

It's just that it disturbed me on how it assumed that everyone would be willing to submit to Serenity, and its portrayals of such monarchistic societies as utopias, which is surely off. It is a fantasy, yes, but any idea of people single-singlemindedly submitting to one person still disturbs me regardless. Or perhaps it is just me and my current sensitivity and paranoia to everything that reeks of Big Brother.

Hey, I'm as paranoid as the next my-ex-military-parent-knows-things conspiracy theorist, but you're a little too quick to hit the panic button.

I was under the impression that the senshi accepted Usagi as a leader because they cared for her, not because they were duty-bound to kneel before Zod her. The senshi are not like those knights in stories of old who loved their king because he was king. They love Usagi because she's their friend.

Besides, I know monarchies aren't the best political system around, but I think it may have ruined the fantasy atmosphere if they made Usagi run for democratic election.

Sailor Moon episode 42b: Ballot battle in the moonlight! A Dark Kingdom poll-tampering plot?!

[Gamer8585]

Sailor Moon episode 42b: Ballot battle in the moonlight! A Dark Kingdom poll-tampering plot?!

ROFLMFAO!

If I wasn't so lazy I'd write that fan-fic.

[Tiff]

Sailor Moon episode 42b: Ballot battle in the moonlight! A Dark Kingdom poll-tampering plot?!

*Cracks up*

[MarioKnight]

Canada has a monarchy, and it's hardly "tyrannical." I think your argument is flawed.

*snorts*

*imagines Canada trying to takeover anything*

*dies of laughter*

XDD

[Starscream]

Not to stir the pot or anything, but it's not that everyone WILLINGLY submitted themselves to Serenity; not only are we not privy to the thoughts of the common people during either the reigns of the Silver Millennium or Crystal Tokyo, but there ARE a few cases of uprising against the kingdoms:

Silver Millennium: Metaria plays upon the concerns of the people of earth who secretly feel they're being subjugated unfairly by the Silver Millennium. With the creature's power they rise up and cause the destruction of both the Earth Kingdom and the Silver Millennium.

Crystal Tokyo (manga, at least): Neo Queen Serenity basically says "be purified or GTFO". A creature called the Death F/Phantom stirs rebellion among the people who don't want to be purified, and so NQS banishes them all to Nemesis. Generations(?) later, their descendants come back and attack Crystal Tokyo, thus leading to the events of R.

[Neon Heart]

Canada has a monarchy, and it's hardly "tyrannical." I think your argument is flawed.

*snorts*

*imagines Canada trying to takeover anything*

*dies of laughter*

XDD

"We conquer this land in the name of Canadian bacon, eh?"

xD;; I'm sure everyone here from Canada has to be bummin', right now. ^^;