Characters Meaner in the Dub than in the Sub

The amazing anime that this site is dedicated to.

Moderators: SMU Staff, SMU Chibi-Mods

User avatar
Passions55
SMU Fan
SMU Fan
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:49 am
Location: USA

Characters Meaner in the Dub than in the Sub

Post by Passions55 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:25 am

I've recently been catching up on some Sailor Moon classic and Sailor Moon R on youtube.com in its original language. And I've noticed something about the characters. The characters Luna, Rei, Mamorou and others, are alot less rude than how they in the dub. :?

In the north American dub I've always hated Luna because I thought she was way to rude and harsh on Uasagi/Serena. And even though Sailor moon definitely needed some strict guidance I thought Luna was way to rough and sometimes insulting of Sailor Moon than I thought was necessary. I mean she is trying to motivate her but how the hell is Sailor Moon supposed to be motivated when her damn mentor acts like she doesn't have faith in her abilities and expects her to screw up. I mean I was like WTF while watching the dub when I was a kid. But in the sub even though Luna gets exasperated by Usagi's childishness and her lack of focus I Luna doesn't put her down or bash her nearly as much as Dub Luna does.

And Sailor Mars even though she is a bitch in both sub and dub I notice the dub exaggerates her insults so they come off as even more rude and obnoxious than how they where even in the sub. In the dub its almost like Sailor Mars and Luna are a tag team who gang up on Serena of every little thing, even Ami/Amy, Matoko/Lita do this in the dub when originally they didn't insult Serena/Usagi.
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience
_______________________

No one can ride your ass unless you bend over and Let them!

User avatar
Cardcaptor Takato
ZOMFG 1337
ZOMFG 1337
Posts: 1149
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:43 am
Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA.
Contact:

Post by Cardcaptor Takato » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:29 am

This is something that I've noticed happens with a lot of edited dubs, not just Sailor Moon. Like in the dub of CCS, everyone is made to be much more sarcastic and snobbier than the original. Even Rachel in the American remake of The Ring is a lot more bitchier than Reiko was. Does American media think people just prefer bitchy characters over nice ones or something? Do they think having a bitchy attitude makes you stronger or something? I think the Sailor Moon character who suffered the most from this was Ami. At least with Rei and Luna they still had their rude moments in the original, but Ami was never flat out rude to Usagi at all. But in the episode where they introduced Rei, the dub has Amy tell Serena that she looks a frog with its big mouth open just waiting for a bug to fly in when in the original she was just saying that unless you've been in love, you shouldn't use the word "love" so lightly. The dub makes Amy seem like a real hypocrite, especially since two episodes earlier she was angsting about how she didn't have any friends because everyone thought she was too stuck-up to go near her.
"If we can''t comprehend the plan at hand, how could a higher plan make any more sense? I'd say you can only be a martyr if you know what you are dying for, and choose it"-Elphaba

"Those who made mistakes blame themselves and close their hearts. It's impossible to fix a mistake. Man can't return to the past. That's why we drink. Drunks, lushes, sliding alcohol down their throats to dilute the memories that can't be denied.-Vash The Stampede"

User avatar
Senshi_of_Vision
SMU Divine Fan
SMU Divine Fan
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:53 pm

I never got that either, but I chalk it up to how they do with alot of shows in coversions. Its bad enough they completely erase most of the culture in the anime but then they trash the characters by changing their personalities. Even though I still love the anime even the dub at times it just bugs me that the scripts where changed so much. And CardCaptor that ami thing bugged me to no end to. Of all the Senshi she would be the least to be rude even if she was trying to make a point about something.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

User avatar
Tiff
SMU Staff
SMU Staff
Posts: 7604
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:24 pm
Location: TX
Contact:

Post by Tiff » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:57 pm

To me, Mamoru is just as jerky =P But then, I'm not a fan of him at all.

As for Luna and Rei, totally agree. Rei is SUCH a bitch in the dub, my god. I wanted to punch her. In the sub, she shows how much she cares about Usagi all the time.

As for Luna...Luna still chastises, but she does it in a much more lighthearted and gentler way most of the time. She also acts like a young girl, which is what she SHOULD act like, rather than some uptight old bitch.

Joey: The question is, Rachel, does he like you? ''Cuz if he doesn''t, then it''s all just a moo point.
Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
-Friends

"In learning you will teach and in teaching you will learn"
-Son of Man, Tarzan

"Why do we have to resort to nonviolence? Can’t we just kick their asses?"
-Leela, Futurama

~*Happily married to My Joe since 08/04/07*~

User avatar
sailorperkytoot123
SMU Fan
SMU Fan
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:29 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Post by sailorperkytoot123 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:44 pm

Well at least the dub managed to match voices with the right personality 9at least with Luna). I guess that is sort of a good thing. If Luna had the British nanny voice but acted like a little girl, that would be awkward. If she sounded like a little girl and acted like a British nanny I guess it would still be weird, but a little girl trying to seem mature isn't that weird (I'm not saying that's what Luna is doing though). But I guess she isn't exactly a little girl in the first place, but still quite young. Nonetheless, I agree that she was a total bitch in the dub. May a large animal feast upon her dub incarnation.

User avatar
peachvampiress
ZOMFG 1337
ZOMFG 1337
Posts: 2312
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: B.C. Canada
Contact:

Post by peachvampiress » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:25 pm

Tiff
As for Luna and Rei, totally agree. Rei is SUCH a bitch in the dub, my god. I wanted to punch her. In the sub, she shows how much she cares about Usagi all the time.
No kidding.

"Raye, what are you doing with Serena's Cresent Moon Wand?"

"She left it at my house so I kept it."

*SMACKSHEAD*
Peachvampiress has an account on DeviantArt. Insanity Within.
And a Myspace account for her clothing designs.

"A number of times, the only thing that kept me out of a satin box was that I could size up the other guy maybe half a second quicker than he could me."

"What the fuck are you talking about? You're taped to a chair."
~Suicide Kings

User avatar
Tiff
SMU Staff
SMU Staff
Posts: 7604
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:24 pm
Location: TX
Contact:

Post by Tiff » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:29 pm

peachvampiress wrote:
No kidding.

"Raye, what are you doing with Serena's Cresent Moon Wand?"

"She left it at my house so I kept it."

*SMACKSHEAD*
I SHOULD BE LEADER.

Joey: The question is, Rachel, does he like you? ''Cuz if he doesn''t, then it''s all just a moo point.
Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
-Friends

"In learning you will teach and in teaching you will learn"
-Son of Man, Tarzan

"Why do we have to resort to nonviolence? Can’t we just kick their asses?"
-Leela, Futurama

~*Happily married to My Joe since 08/04/07*~

User avatar
Passions55
SMU Fan
SMU Fan
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:49 am
Location: USA

Post by Passions55 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:43 am

Does American media think people just prefer bitchy characters over nice ones or something? Do they think having a bitchy attitude makes you stronger or something
you know...I don't that is actually the case. I don't think America media goes out of their way to make their characters more bitchy or asshole-ish. I think that maybe that there might be just a case of degrees of politeness between our two cultures. I think perhaps what comes off as rude and insulting in Japanese culture might not translate as very rude or obnoxious over here in the West. Maybe American translators feel the need to "kick up" the rudeness factor in conversations between two character just so American audiences can under stand that this particular character is being rude. Because honestly some times when I am watching anime subbed I will see two characters sharing some dialogue and one character will say some thing that I thought was really mild and the other character will get totally pissed off as if what the first character said was the most rude thing in the world. And I'm left baffled as to how any one can react so strongly to something so minor. So maybe dialog is changed around in anime so that it makes more sense to American viewers (even though it doesn't) although that doesn't excuse why they take a piece of dialog that originally had nothing offensive in it and change it around so that it does now. Like with your example with Ami.

Seriously how much bashing does poor Serena/Usagi have to put up with from every one. in the episode where Usagi and mamorou are asked to model for a painting and they have to sit next to each other there is a short scene where they are both checking each other out and in the Dub Darian acknowledges (to himself) that Serena is a "looker" but quickly spoils that that by adding "when she isn't falling on her face" :roll: WTF! In the sub Mamo-chan just acknowledges that she is pretty.

And later on in the same episode the scene where Luna give back the moon wand that usagi dropped (earlier in the episode) is really different in the sub than how its presented in the dub. In the Dub they make it seem like Luna berates Serena for being careless and even goes so far as to compare her unfavorably to the Sailor senshi, which gets Serena mad and she yell "why do you keep comparing me to them" and runs off, which leads to Luna making one of her all time bitchiest remarks ever: "Well...i thought for sure she was going to break down into tears. Perhaps she is finally acquiring a back bone." Seriously is it necessary to compare Serena all the time to other girls and make her feel like crap? Never have more than one kid Luna other wise you''ll be favoring one over the other and causing rivalries.

Which never happened in the sub. I don't remember exactly what happened in the original exchange but I don't think Luna even remarked on Usagi losing the wand and makes some casual comment that inadvertently sets Usagi off.
To me, Mamoru is just as jerky =P But then, I'm not a fan of him at all.
wow! i think you are the first person to say that you don't like Mamoru :shock: Do you mean in both?
Last edited by Passions55 on Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience
_______________________

No one can ride your ass unless you bend over and Let them!

User avatar
Jusenkyo no Pikachu
SMU Divine Fan
SMU Divine Fan
Posts: 950
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:31 am
Location: Australia

Post by Jusenkyo no Pikachu » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:49 am

...but when you're scared, you run back home, solving every problem with an ice cream cone. Who do you think you are?
"That new girl? She seems kinda weird to me. And what kind of name is Buffy anyway?"
"Hey, Aphrodisia!"
--unaired Buffy pilot

If you're reading this, then you've lost the game.

User avatar
Passions55
SMU Fan
SMU Fan
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:49 am
Location: USA

Post by Passions55 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:53 am

exactly what are you quoting in that post Jusenkyo no Pikachu? :?
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience
_______________________

No one can ride your ass unless you bend over and Let them!

User avatar
Jusenkyo no Pikachu
SMU Divine Fan
SMU Divine Fan
Posts: 950
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:31 am
Location: Australia

Post by Jusenkyo no Pikachu » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:47 am

Sorry...I was actually referring to Tiffu's post (and it's a quote from the song that appears in Dub Episode 82)
"That new girl? She seems kinda weird to me. And what kind of name is Buffy anyway?"
"Hey, Aphrodisia!"
--unaired Buffy pilot

If you're reading this, then you've lost the game.

User avatar
Tiff
SMU Staff
SMU Staff
Posts: 7604
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:24 pm
Location: TX
Contact:

Post by Tiff » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:42 am

Passions55 wrote:
wow! i think you are the first person to say that you don't like Mamoru :shock: Do you mean in both?
take a look at the "mamoru is a jerk" topic int he sailor moon section. XD

Joey: The question is, Rachel, does he like you? ''Cuz if he doesn''t, then it''s all just a moo point.
Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
-Friends

"In learning you will teach and in teaching you will learn"
-Son of Man, Tarzan

"Why do we have to resort to nonviolence? Can’t we just kick their asses?"
-Leela, Futurama

~*Happily married to My Joe since 08/04/07*~

User avatar
Neon Heart
ZOMFG 1337
ZOMFG 1337
Posts: 1775
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:08 pm
Location: KCMO
Contact:

Post by Neon Heart » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:48 pm

Rei was a total bitch in the dub. I used to always wonder if she was naturally mean, or just had a raging case of PMS.
The Single Funniest Thread Title Ever
Ian Ziering will not pose nude; world`s sigh of relief causes tornado


^ ^ ^ ROFL

User avatar
RainbowCrystal
SMU Newbie
SMU Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:30 pm
Location: England

Post by RainbowCrystal » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:19 pm

Yeah, i think that its an American thing that they chose Luna to be a old sounding woman when she really isnt and that Rei in the dub is more bitchy.

personally i think that the comments Rei makes on Usagi in the subbed version are offensive, and i would ceartainly get mad at the comments. But, i am overly sensetive and get angry easily anyway.

Anyway, i think that (like with many things) Americans just took it too far with the nasty comments thing. no offence to any americans, but George Bush isnt exactly the perfect role model...

ANYWAY: yeah, i hate the dub, and i wish that they could have made it more respectable.

Emma

User avatar
peachvampiress
ZOMFG 1337
ZOMFG 1337
Posts: 2312
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: B.C. Canada
Contact:

Post by peachvampiress » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:36 pm

Sailor Moon was dubbed in Canada, but does anyone know if the writers were also Canadian?
Peachvampiress has an account on DeviantArt. Insanity Within.
And a Myspace account for her clothing designs.

"A number of times, the only thing that kept me out of a satin box was that I could size up the other guy maybe half a second quicker than he could me."

"What the fuck are you talking about? You're taped to a chair."
~Suicide Kings

User avatar
RainbowCrystal
SMU Newbie
SMU Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:30 pm
Location: England

Post by RainbowCrystal » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:38 pm

peachvampiress wrote:Sailor Moon was dubbed in Canada, but does anyone know if the writers were also Canadian?
to be honest, i dont know, but i would guess so. Canadians dont like to be confused with Americans, so i would think so, yeah.

User avatar
Tiff
SMU Staff
SMU Staff
Posts: 7604
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:24 pm
Location: TX
Contact:

Post by Tiff » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:43 pm

ADMIN MODE:

Can we back off the American bashing? This isn't the issue at hand. Please get back on topic.

Joey: The question is, Rachel, does he like you? ''Cuz if he doesn''t, then it''s all just a moo point.
Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
-Friends

"In learning you will teach and in teaching you will learn"
-Son of Man, Tarzan

"Why do we have to resort to nonviolence? Can’t we just kick their asses?"
-Leela, Futurama

~*Happily married to My Joe since 08/04/07*~

User avatar
Passions55
SMU Fan
SMU Fan
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:49 am
Location: USA

Post by Passions55 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:08 am

RainbowCrystal wrote:Yeah, i think that its an American thing that they chose Luna to be a old sounding woman when she really isn't and that Rei in the dub is more bitchy.

personally i think that the comments Rei makes on Usagi in the subbed version are offensive, and i would certainly get mad at the comments. But, i am overly sensitive and get angry easily anyway.

ANYWAY: yeah, i hate the dub, and i wish that they could have made it more respectable.

Emma
Actually Rei in general really bothers me. Even though she is not as bitchy in the sub as she is in the dub she still is pretty antagonistic and insulting toward Usagi. Yeah you are right Rei is not out right childish with her insults to uasgi she usually makes veiled comments or remarks with double meanings that put Usagi down. And I don't know but some times that sort of antagonisms to be more malicious and annoying than out in the open aggression. I don't know why but the anime seems to set up this tension between Rie and Usagi of intense dislike for some reason. Most of the time things like this are interesting but all it does is put Rei in a unflattering and negative light, to have a cliche one girl going up against the main character dynamic. What with the whole Rie and Usagi both having a thing for mamoru. And in the Dub they seem to take it even further by making Rie/Ray actively challenge Sailor moons status as Leader and try to over throw her and even go on "strike" on in one episode. Refusing to come to Sailor Moons aid when there is a monster attacking her and an innocent jewel keeper (as was alleged by Sailor Jupiter in one episode) because she felt so strongly about Sailor Moon being Leader. I guess the dub wanted to put more tension and friction between Sailor Moon and Sailor Mars and their rivalry by adding this obstacle for Sailor Moon to over come. But all it did was make Sailor Mars look cold and heartless. I mean "going on strike" and refusing to help Sailor Moon because she doesn't like that shes leader at the expense of an innocent person's life is pretty cold. And I didn't like that they did this in the dub. It made Sailor Mars more bitchy and resentful toward Sailor Moon than how she is even portrayed even in the sub.

and While I am at it I thought the dub adding that Sailor Mercury was going along with Mars in this Strike against Serena was just disgusting. It makes Ami/Amy appear weak and spineless to not rally to Serena's side just because Ray has an issue with her. Not to mention ungrateful and back stabbing considering Serena was the only one to befriend Amy when every one else stuck up their nose at her. Plus Amy knew Serena before she knew Ray and was friends with her first. So she should have more loyalty toward Serena than that. How sad was it that Lita (the new comer) was the only one defending Serena and on her side?
Last edited by Passions55 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience
_______________________

No one can ride your ass unless you bend over and Let them!

User avatar
Cardcaptor Takato
ZOMFG 1337
ZOMFG 1337
Posts: 1149
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:43 am
Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA.
Contact:

Post by Cardcaptor Takato » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:30 am

Rei doesn't criticize Usagi in the Japanese version because she's trying to be antagonistic. They argue as much as they do because they're close friends. This is something that is stated frequently throughout the series. Makoto comments that arguing is a sign of close friendship in episode 25 and even Chibi-usa comments in the last S episode that Rei and Usagi are such close friends that they can say whatever is on their mind to each other and she wished she could have a friend like that. I think in the Japanese version at least the reason why Rei criticizes Usagi as much as she does is because she sees parts of herself in Usagi that she doesn't like and so it brings out the worst in her. This seems to be indicated by the fact that Rei is often guilty of doing the same things she accuses Usagi of.

But there are still many moments where Rei shows how much she cares for Usagi. It's Rei's slap in the face that snaps Usagi back to her senses after Mamoru is captured by the Dark Kingdom. Of all the Sailor Soldiers' deaths in episode 46, Rei's death is the one that shocks Usagi the most. But it's ultimately Rei's spirit that gives Usagi the strength to fight Beryl when she shouts at Usagi to "stand up!" and Usagi replies "okay!" and tries to hold back the tears. When Usagi finally breaks down in Sailor Stars because of Mamoru's absence, it's Rei that's there for her and comforts her. And again it's Rei's death in Sailor Stars that shocks Usagi the most but remembering her last words gives her the resolve to fight Galaxia.

I think two other characters that were made to be bitchier in the dub were Haruka and Michiru. They could be cold in the Japanese version too, but before they discovered each other's identities, Haruka and Michiru were at least always kind to the Inners. I think the worst case is probably in episode 93. In the original Michiru was very encouraging to Usagi but in the dub she flat-out insulted her and called her a "dweeb." Haruka was kind of cringing at Usagi's bad violin playing but she didn't resort to childish name calling either like Amara did when she called Serena "pathetic" or her friends a "peanut gallery." It seems like even one-shot characters were made to be snobbier in the dub. Like in episode 96 when Usagi was looking for Makoto at school, one of Makoto's classmates simply replied to her that Kino-san wasn't there. But in the dub they had Serena act all loud and noisy and the girl was rude and said "if you're babbling for Lita, she went home." Main characters is one thing, but do they even have to make total strangers complete bitches?
"If we can''t comprehend the plan at hand, how could a higher plan make any more sense? I'd say you can only be a martyr if you know what you are dying for, and choose it"-Elphaba

"Those who made mistakes blame themselves and close their hearts. It's impossible to fix a mistake. Man can't return to the past. That's why we drink. Drunks, lushes, sliding alcohol down their throats to dilute the memories that can't be denied.-Vash The Stampede"

User avatar
Passions55
SMU Fan
SMU Fan
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:49 am
Location: USA

Post by Passions55 » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:29 am

you make some good points regarding Rei and Usagi's relationship Cardcaptor Takato. They do act like more like sisters than anything much of the time. And I have noticed that when there is trouble in battle Sailor Mars is the one that generally runs in to protect Sailor Moon from harm. Like in the first movie when all the Sailor Senshi are about to be buried under a wave of monsters, Sailor Mars grabs Sailor Moons arm and flings her out of harms way. And heck even in the dub Rie can be sweet and supportive of Usagi, its just mixed in with alot of put downs :? .

But the thing about the dub is that Sailor mars (in the classic series) seems to display alot more resentment and desire to push Sailor Moon aside as leader was what i was trying to point out. The dub goes out of their way to put more hostility between Sailor mars and Sailor Moon than the original did. Its been a while since I've watched the classic series of Sailor Moon in Japanese, but I don't think Sailor mars ever wanted to oust Sailor Moon as Leader and take her place. I mean, I'm pretty sure she felt that Sailor Moon was a bit to immature to be Leader but I don't think she ever tried to deliberately make things hard on her and challenge her the way the dub portrayed Ray to do to Serena. In the Dub Sailor Mars was more adamant about Sailor Moons inadequacy for the role of Leader than she was in the original.
I think two other characters that were made to be bitchier in the dub were Haruka and Michiru. They could be cold in the Japanese version too, but before they discovered each others identities, Haruka and Michiru were at least always kind to the Inners. I think the worst case is probably in episode 93. In the original Michiru was very encouraging to Usagi but in the dub she flat-out insulted her and called her a "dweeb." Haruka was kind of cringing at Usagi's bad violin playing but she didn't resort to childish name calling either like Amara did when she called Serena "pathetic" or her friends a "peanut gallery."
Yeah, yet another example of how the dub made the characters more mean and insulting than in the original. Even when I first saw the dub of this episode you mentioned I thought it was a bit off for Michelle to be making snarky remarks like "meatball head alert" and "big Dweeb" when she was presented as being this sophisticated, socially graceful person, and should have been above making such childish insults. It seemed at odds with the elegant presentation the show was trying to present her character as. Michiru is supposed to be a perfect lady with polished manners, and having her seem scornful toward Usagi/Serena made her out to be a snob. Amara...yeah she was a bit more bitchy and disdainful toward Serena and company than Harauka was but not by very much. Since Haraku is still pretty rude and arrogant in both versions. So I didn't find her rude comments as jarring as Michelle's.
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience
_______________________

No one can ride your ass unless you bend over and Let them!

Locked