Why do people say that Mamoru is a jerk in the anime?

[Origiri]

^You may be right to some extent, but we all see what Usagi does..she just..goes nuts when Mamoru is the subject, her passion and love is so very obvious and cute. I do not suggest Mamoru hugging/kissing/teasing/or more nasty things Usagi all the time, just...I do not know, a simple look, a simple saying, a simple and innocent thing may show his love...but there is no such thing AFAIK. He even spent more time with Chibi-Usa when she was around, and Usagi was just there, 'with' them. (though it may be due to Chibi-Usa's behaviour )

I do not know, maybe I am the only person who got this impression, but personaly, if Usagi was so deeply in love with me.. ahem...I would behave much much differently.

[Rin]

We all know how Usagi is mad about Mamoru, to the point of doing funny things for him. (remember when Usagi became a ninja to spy on Mamoru, that was hillarious!) And what does Mamoru do? Besides helping them in combat, I mean, what does he do in their normal lives? Nothing at all, Usagi is always in second priority, his education, job, personal matters etc are all above her. Has he ever told 'Usagi, I love you!' No, I do not remember such an occasion. I remember though, Usagi asks him frequently that 'Do you love me?' and he replies 'Yes' that's all. What a total jerk indeed!

He acutally does tell Usagi that he loves her in the Stars episode where he leaves for America. He even uses Ai Shiteru which is not normally used by the Japanese, especially in public.

He does show some affection for her. What about the episode where he buys her an expensive outfit and he was just happy hearing that she liked it?

[Origiri]

OK, there may be some occasions on that, but they are rare. In general I fail to see the same emotional affection like the deep and pure passion Usagi has for her Mamo-chan.

[Tiff]

Again, I shall apply this to real life.

Derek has a lot of those "unlovable" qualities. Logic. Rare emotion. Some consider him sometimes to be "cold", and he's not nearly as affectionate as I am.

But you know what? I'll be damned if he doesn't tell me he loves me every day. Or if, when I hug him, he doesn't hug me back...NOT becuase HE'S affectionate, but becuase he knows I am, and therefore, knows how important it is to me.

And in a lot of ways? Derek is WAY more intelligent than I am. He knows far more about subjects that baffle me. Sometimes, I am completely ignorant about the simplest things, and he'll have to correct me.

But does he make me feel stupid while doing it? No.

The point here is that Mamoru, to me, has zero tact when talking to Usagi. He treats her like a fool, instead of taking into consideration that yes, she IS only 15, and has not gained as much knowledge in life yet as he, a college student, has.

When you're in a relationship, you take into account these things, and you do what you can to balance it. You don't talk down to the other person..that's just asshole-ish behavior.

[Starscream]

The point here is that Mamoru, to me, has zero tact when talking to Usagi. He treats her like a fool, instead of taking into consideration that yes, she IS only 15, and has not gained as much knowledge in life yet as he, a college student, has.

When you're in a relationship, you take into account these things, and you do what you can to balance it. You don't talk down to the other person..that's just asshole-ish behavior.

I agree, but I don't think he does it on purpose, which is what I think keeps him from being a "jerk" in my eyes. He just has really bad people skills with individuals that are "intellectually inferior" to him, and in his attempt to talk at their level, ends up being condescending toward them.

[Tiff]

I agree, but I don't think he does it on purpose, which is what I think keeps him from being a "jerk" in my eyes. He just has really bad people skills with individuals that are "intellectually inferior" to him, and in his attempt to talk at their level, ends up being condescending toward them.

True, but really...destiny and all that BS aside, why date someone who you know is below you intelligently if you don't know how to handle them? You'd have thought he'd at least make an effort to meet her halfway. Usagi goes out of her way to try and be at Mamoru's level in that one episode in S...learning about physics, cooking, the symphony, etc. Shouldn't there be some level of comprimise?

[Sailorasteroid]

Does Usagi never take advantage of Mamoru? Doesn't she ask him several times to empty his wallet on her behalf? Didn't she guilt-trip him into getting her a glass slipper for her birthday? Does she not cling to him for support when facing the terror of the dentist? And does he not answer each of these calls?

If the Usagi-Mamoru relationship played out into a marriage (again absent destiny and world tumult), I think it would be an old-school, pre-women's-liberation style of marriage. Mamoru would earn the money and Usagi would stay home and keep house and children. In such a marriage it is not required for the man to be very affectionate. I have an aunt and a grandmother who have/had this exact type of marriage, and their husbands are/were quite as cold as Mamoru. I stress that there is nothing wrong with this type of relationship, if the parties are willing.

Most modern relationships take a different tack. Each person contributes to both bread-winning and household duties. Each has similar station in life and even if it were not a loving relationship, they might be friends. In this sort of relationship it is necessary for both parties to have open communication and affection. Most of the married people I know at my job follow this style. There is also nothing wrong with this type of relationship.

However, what would be wrong is to create a hybrid of these types. Just as it's wrong to demand that two non-loving people share their assets and duties, so is it wrong to decry a man for not being loving when he brings everything else to the table. Chiba Mamoru would not be a good boyfriend or husband to many women, but as I see it he is a wonderful boyfriend and future husband for Tsukino Usagi.

[Tiff]

Does Usagi never take advantage of Mamoru? Doesn't she ask him several times to empty his wallet on her behalf? Didn't she guilt-trip him into getting her a glass slipper for her birthday? Does she not cling to him for support when facing the terror of the dentist? And does he not answer each of these calls?

Who ever said Usagi was flawless? If you want me to start on Usagi's flaws, by all means, start a new thread. I never stated she was the saint in the relationship, that she had no flaws. So your point there is moot.

If the Usagi-Mamoru relationship played out into a marriage (again absent destiny and world tumult), I think it would be an old-school, pre-women's-liberation style of marriage. Mamoru would earn the money and Usagi would stay home and keep house and children. In such a marriage it is not required for the man to be very affectionate. I have an aunt and a grandmother who have/had this exact type of marriage, and their husbands are/were quite as cold as Mamoru. I stress that there is nothing wrong with this type of relationship, if the parties are willing.

And since I am NOT okay with that type of relationship, and DO think, in my opinon, that it IS wrong, I have that right to say that any man who treats their wife in that manner is a jerk. That is my right, my opinion. There's nothing wrong with being a homemaker, having babies, and keeping house. But there IS something wrong, IMO, with your husband being a cold jerk all the time in return. Fuck that shit.

However, what would be wrong is to create a hybrid of these types. Just as it's wrong to demand that two non-loving people share their assets and duties, so is it wrong to decry a man for not being loving when he brings everything else to the table. Chiba Mamoru would not be a good boyfriend or husband to many women, but as I see it he is a wonderful boyfriend and future husband for Tsukino Usagi.

And in my opinion, a relationship is a lot more than making the money. I'll be damned if I"ll spend the rest of my life with someone who isn't affectionate at all, isn't understanding, treats me like shit, belittles me, and is cold simply becuase he "brings home the money".

If someone else wants to do it? Good for them. Have fun doing it. But don't expect all people to view it as normal or right, especially when they were raised to view things differently.

[Sailorasteroid]

Who ever said Usagi was flawless? If you want me to start on Usagi's flaws, by all means, start a new thread. I never stated she was the saint in the relationship, that she had no flaws. So your point there is moot.

But I don't. I'd rather talk about how great both of them are.

And since I am NOT okay with that type of relationship, and DO think, in my opinon, that it IS wrong, I have that right to say that any man who treats their wife in that manner is a jerk. That is my right, my opinion. There's nothing wrong with being a homemaker, having babies, and keeping house. But there IS something wrong, IMO, with your husband being a cold jerk all the time in return. Fuck that shit.

Certainly, and I did not and do not mean to imply that you do not have that right. Conversely, I have the right to say that a woman who accepts support and demands affection, while offering no support and unwanted affection is a shrew.

And in my opinion, a relationship is a lot more than making the money. I'll be damned if I'll spend the rest of my life with someone who isn't affectionate at all, isn't understanding, treats me like shit, belittles me, and is cold simply becuase he "brings home the money".

If someone else wants to do it? Good for them. Have fun doing it. But don't expect all people to view it as normal or right, especially when they were raised to view things differently.

Fair enough, and don't expect all people to view your take as normal or right either. One thing we discover as we become more of a global village is that there is true diversity of opinion, and for better or for worse we're going to have to deal with people who hold standards we consider abhorent. I would be damned to be in a relationship where I bring objective values without accepting them in return, and then being told that those don't matter and our affection must be in balance. Fuck THAT shit.

[Tiff]

But I don't. I'd rather talk about how great both of them are.

Good for you. I enjoy talking about how great Usagi is, too. But I do not think Mamoru is great; therefore, I will not discuss it.

Certainly, and I did not and do not mean to imply that you do not have that right. Conversely, I have the right to say that a woman who accepts support and demands affection, while offering no support and unwanted affection is a shrew.

Again...Good for you.

Fair enough, and don't expect all people to view your take as normal or right either. One thing we discover as we become more of a global village is that there is true diversity of opinion, and for better or for worse we're going to have to deal with people who hold standards we consider abhorent. I would be damned to be in a relationship where I bring objective values without accepting them in return, and then being told that those don't matter and our affection must be in balance. Fuck THAT shit.

I never said people had to accept my view as right. Dunno where the hell you got that.

Oooh, you so cleverly took my own words and used them yourself to sound just as witty. Come on, man. Be original.

Clearly, we're not going to agree on this. So let's agree to disagree, please. I have a big enough headache from my black eye as it is.

[StarFlame Soldier]

Is it wrong to tell everyone to calm down?
*cringing* Don't hate me.

I've still got most of the series to watch (I consider myself lucky), so I can't really judge Mamoru, but _personally_ I thought the way he protected Usagi in R was romantic, and I didn't really mind because it all turned out well in the end. As Tuxedo Mask he was always helpful (despite sometimes being a plot device), perhaps the wording of his speeches was what sounded wrong. Also, in the S movie, there is a scene where he is reading and Usagi is with him. When Usagi starts to mention that she feels like she is annoying him, he hurriedly tells her she's not (or something along those lines). I can completely understand this situation, because my boyfriend is very quiet. I'm not the most talkative person, but when I felt I was talking too much I would get worried he was annoyed. But he never gets annoyed at that, and I don't want him to change and be a talkative person if he doesn't want to. (Well I also suck at communication. Sorry if you don't get it).
What I'm trying to say is that just because two people aren't the same in communication, it doesn't mean they can't work out together, that although Mamoru is quiet and somewhat unaffectionate, he can still love Usagi.

Despite all this, I still think Mamoru was infinitely better in the Manga- he seems fascinated by Sailor Moon and respects he (example: he can't figure out what type of person she is- typical girly teenager or courageous and valiant hero.

[Tiff]

Is it wrong to tell everyone to calm down?
*cringing* Don't hate me.

XD No, and that's probably a good voice of reason.

I've still got most of the series to watch (I consider myself lucky), so I can't really judge Mamoru, but _personally_ I thought the way he protected Usagi in R was romantic, and I didn't really mind because it all turned out well in the end. As Tuxedo Mask he was always helpful (despite sometimes being a plot device), perhaps the wording of his speeches was what sounded wrong. Also, in the S movie, there is a scene where he is reading and Usagi is with him. When Usagi starts to mention that she feels like she is annoying him, he hurriedly tells her she's not (or something along those lines). I can completely understand this situation, because my boyfriend is very quiet. I'm not the most talkative person, but when I felt I was talking too much I would get worried he was annoyed. But he never gets annoyed at that, and I don't want him to change and be a talkative person if he doesn't want to. (Well I also suck at communication. Sorry if you don't get it).
What I'm trying to say is that just because two people aren't the same in communication, it doesn't mean they can't work out together, that although Mamoru is quiet and somewhat unaffectionate, he can still love Usagi.

Despite all this, I still think Mamoru was infinitely better in the Manga- he seems fascinated by Sailor Moon and respects he (example: he can't figure out what type of person she is- typical girly teenager or courageous and valiant hero.

Don't get me wrong. He does have his moments of romance and sweetness. But I personally think they are far outnumbered by his moments of jerkness. I'm not saying the guy is a heartless beast, not at all..but I am saying that, to me, he appears far more as a callous jerk than as a sweet guy.

[Dr. Casey]

Also, don't forget that of what we see of Mamoru, it's mostly in times of crisis, and the rest in times that lead to crisis. It's possible that in U&M's dates that we don't see on screen, he's a very different person, especially if they're dates in private.

Likely. Usagi and Mamoru made out in episode 60 and that was just their first date.

[the*blue*girl]

personally, i don't have much of an issue with him. is he sometimes a jerk? yeah. if he was my boyfriend, would i have dumped his sorry ass by now? most likely. but usagi didn't, and thats good enough for me. not that usagi always uses good judgement, but if she can see good in him, then there must be SOMETHING there. maybe off camera, like other people have suggested. see, i just think he lacks social skills and the capability to express himself properly. it would make ME dump him, sure, but just not usagi, and im okay with that.

[Fruityla]

It's mostly in the first season, where he seems to diss Usagi every chance he gets. He must've insulted her at least once every episode he appeared in. I'm not sure if it's as bad in the original as it is in the dub >_> but I figure it might be.

In later seasons he still did it, but not anywhere near as much and I don't think he was as harsh either.

Why? Toei probably did it for humor purposes. That's all I can figure.

[Origiri]

OK then guys, what can you say about the Mamoru in manga? Is he such an affactionate, loving and caring and perfect boy friend that, according to you, anime version is a pale subsitute which we can safely refer as a, 'complete jerk'?

I can not comment as I never laid my hands on the manga. (though the few screens I saw on the net were too cute:I loved the one when they were on bed, nude and lovely and VERY affectionate. )

[Tiff]

OK then guys, what can you say about the Mamoru in manga? Is he such an affactionate, loving and caring and perfect boy friend that, according to you, anime version is a pale subsitute which we can safely refer as a, 'complete jerk'?

I wouldn't say he's perfect, no, since nobody's perfect. But he seems a lot more considerate, and a lot more tolerant of Usagi in the manga. He's also WAY more mature, IMO, then he is in the early season of the anime.

[Origiri]

^I see you have high expectations and standarts when it comes to boy friends.

Anyway, like I said before, my mange knowledge about Mamo-chan there is next to zero. You say he is more mature, tolerant, and considerate to Usagi. Which is an improvement, really, I do not like the way he behaves Usagi most of the time, I know it is for comical scenes, but most of the time when Usagi emberasses him, or herself usually, and her Mamo-chan only stays there with funny expressions on his face.

[the*blue*girl]

the closest i've come to reading a sm manga was a japenese volume, so i didn't quite understand what was going on, but it looked like mamoru was nicer.

[jadoo]

Maybe it had something to do with when he started out in the manga. This is just a theory, but maybe he was more nicer in the manga because he was more delevoped then in the series.