The Problems with Sailor Stars

Crecent beam · Post by **Crecent beam** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:00 pm

"I was hoping that we would get an ending that would end the whole series or at least close to it."

Can you say something more about this ? What would your ideal ending have been ?

SailorMoonFan · Post by **SailorMoonFan** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:33 pm

Crecent beam wrote:"I was hoping that we would get an ending that would end the whole series or at least close to it."

Can you say something more about this ? What would your ideal ending have been ?

It would have been nice to have a look a wedding between Usagi & Mamoru and a peek into the future with Usagi as Neo-Queen Serenity. But I'm happy with the ending that we have. I just wish we could get another group of SM episodes with a look at the future with Usagi as Queen in Crystal Tokyo.

Crecent beam · Post by **Crecent beam** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:16 pm

Yeah, that'd be nice.

artemis_is_my_dawg · Post by **artemis_is_my_dawg** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:46 pm

Crecent beam wrote:"I was hoping that we would get an ending that would end the whole series or at least close to it."

Can you say something more about this ? What would your ideal ending have been ?

i would say, seeing usagi and mamoru get married, mina become a star, lita become a chef, rei getting some internship (her dream as a career woman), the ami going to that doctor school. not full scenes, but at least just pictures, ya know? maybe for the credits or something!

*Eternal Moon* · Post by ***Eternal Moon*** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:07 pm

artemis_is_my_dawg wrote: i would say, seeing usagi and mamoru get married, mina become a star, lita become a chef, rei getting some internship (her dream as a career woman), the ami going to that doctor school. not full scenes, but at least just pictures, ya know? maybe for the credits or something!

I would have loved to see an ending like that. That would have been perfect. I mean, I'm not saying I'm not satisfied with the ending Stars gave but in my opinion, it could have been better - but it also could've been worse. It would have been nice to see little scenes of what happened after Stars and a look into their future though.

Panda · Post by **Panda** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:35 pm

I don't know... I mean I think it was fine the way it ended. It would have felt out fo place to me to see that because if you look at Sailor Moon persectivly, it all took place in a little under 2 years. Something tells me that wouldn't have been the end so to bounch to far forward would mean (to me anyway) that they fought for 2 years, slacked off, created Crystal Tokyo, Chibi-Usa was born, they get their asses handed to them, send Chibi-Usa back in time, all starts over.

I really like the way it ended. It leaves ANYTHING open for possiblity.

Sailorasteroid · Post by **Sailorasteroid** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:23 pm

I can't talk about the Sailor Stars manga, but I will talk about the anime, since it is my favorite season.

I didn't like the SuperS ending. The climax was not Sailor Moon defeating a villain, but Moon and Chibimoon getting saved by Pegasus, a character I'm not all that fond of anyway. Plus Neherenia goes into space thinking she's won and that Sailor Moon is dead. She doesn't deserve that kind of fate. It's not fair to her or her loss.

On the other hand, the 6-episode Sailor Stars arc is one of the best in the whole series IMO, especially as it foreshadows the ending. Here's the key element of the arc: Sailor Moon was powerful enough to defeat the Beryl-Metallia combo. She was powerful enough to beat Wiseman. She was powerful enough to stop Pharoh 90 from making it to Earth. She was not powerful enough to beat Neherenia. There was no way to win. And in a great character scene, Sailor Moon realizes this and offers to sacrifice herself. When she tells Neherenia that all the others will be her friend even if she kills Sailor Moon, it's a touching moment and illustritive besides. And the series should always be about Sailor Moon more than a villain.

Chibiusa's departure had been done so many times before that one more would be repetitive. Furthermore, the post-Neherenia Sailor Stars had no use for Chibiusa. Far from being an important character, I consider her another "third party" senshi like the Outer Senshi and the Starlights. It's just that she lasted for 2 and a half seasons.

As to the animamates, the "lieutenant" villans have usually been comedy figures as opposed to badasses, since their job is basically to lose in all the filler episodes. From the bickering Akayashi sisters to Mimete to the Amazon septet, you have some of the funniest people on the show. And even ones like Kunzite, Kaorinite, and Zirconia could be the butt of jokes now and again. Between Lead Crow and Tin Nyanko, I think there was enough seriousness to make it work.

I like the Ranma-esque nature of the Starlights, but then again I'm ecchi.

The Three Lights, on the other hand, I will agree is less than exciting. Why did they have to be rock stars when they could just have been Mysterious Transfer Students (TM Suzumiya 2006

) If there was a reason for the Seiya-Usagi relationship, it was to throw Mamoru's absence into sharper relief.

I do agree that the Princess Kakyuu storyline was cut short, and I would have no complaints if Sailor Stars had gone 13 more episodes to flesh it out. And that leads into one of what I consider to be only two major flaws with the series.

The storyline of the legendary strongest senshi really got short shriff. That would have been a major fake-out: you set up this person, spend episode after episode trying to find her, say that she's the only one who can save the world. . . and then have Galaxia do the reveal, sending the good senshi (and hopefully the viewer) into dispair. But they didn't have time, and it's over and done in two episodes.

The other major flaw was with the star seeds themselves. When the villains were looking for the talismans, fine, they're where they were. With the golden mirror, same thing. Seeking True star seeds meant that none of the senshi; inner, outer, chibi, starlight; could be a victim of the day. Which means no glass slipper episodes, no shattered mirrors, no character episodes about how Makoto just wants some love.

But the ending, I'm sorry, I think it's one of the greatest in all of literature. The ultimate beatdown, the failure of every attack and ploy and ruse, the deaths, the fake "everything is OK" dream sequence, and then, just as evil has conquered every point in the galaxy, the net is cut and evil falls as low as it can. Usagi, left all alone, once again proves her mettle because she cares and feels so much, and because of it wins back all her friends. That's how everything good should end.

Don't forget, all the "happily ever after" was set up back in R. S, SuperS, and Sailor Stars are just challenges to that ending--time paradoxes prevented. It's an effective way of telling a story if you can pull it off, and for me, when Usagi and Mamoru stood together, it said everything it needed. And the final callback to the Opening Usagi Segments, showing that she finally has come to terms with growing up and being a senshi is the icing on the cake.

sailorperkytoot123 · Post by **sailorperkytoot123** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:23 pm

I'd like to add about the ending. It wasnt like all the Senshi just returned to life magically and without reason. It was because Galaxia was returned to normal and all her captured star seeds were released. Maybe I'm wrong but I think it differs from the classic season ending. Usagi wishes them to all have a normal life and her wish is just sorta granted. I know it was with the silver crystal's power, so I sorta can accept it but I thought it was close to being pure luck and a quick jump to a happy ending if you understand what I mean.

nap* · Post by nap* » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:04 pm

Sailor Stars confuses me...
If Galaxia wanted to collect star seeds,she couldn't of got Usagi's if she didn't become sailor Moon because the sliver crystal is her star seed but does this mean that she didn't have a star seed until series 2 when her brooch got upgraded

SeiUsa · Post by **SeiUsa** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:29 pm

Something I've always wondered...
Star Gentle Uterus?

Cardcaptor Takato · Post by **Cardcaptor Takato** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:54 pm

nap* wrote:Sailor Stars confuses me...
If Galaxia wanted to collect star seeds,she couldn't of got Usagi's if she didn't become sailor Moon because the sliver crystal is her star seed but does this mean that she didn't have a star seed until series 2 when her brooch got upgraded

I think Usagi has always had a star seed whether or not she always had the Silver Crystal. It's just her star seed wasn't fully awoken yet without it. Remember that Galaxia had to awaken Hotaru's powers because unless she was awakened as a Sailor Soldier, her star seed would still be prematured. I think the same thing applies to Usagi. She had a star seed even without the Silver Crystal; it was just prematured without it.

nap* · Post by nap* » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:04 pm

Another thing...

If Mamoru had his star seed taken then Chibi-Usa wouldn't exist
Therefore Hotaru couldn't of taken Chibi-Usa pure heart crystal because she couldn't of come to the past and she wouldn't of become Sailor Saturn, then Sailor Moon couldn't of become Eternal Sailor Moon...

In other words

Doom Phantom should be alive
Sailor Moon Should Still have Moon Cosmic Power
Nehelnia should still be alive and evil (well maybe)
Elios should still be captured or something (i haven't finsh watching SuperS)
Galaxia should take over the universe

I know i'm overthinking but this is logic

DragonMasterZero · Post by **DragonMasterZero** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:24 pm

Time Travel paradoxes give me a headache

One reason I think they made the Starlights as Male when not transformed is because of Seiya's relationship with Usagi, mainly because she's been in love with Mamoru, having her start to fall in love with a girl Seiya might've been a little too wierd

Cardcaptor Takato · Post by **Cardcaptor Takato** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:02 pm

nap* wrote:Another thing...

If Mamoru had his star seed taken then Chibi-Usa wouldn't exist
Therefore Hotaru couldn't of taken Chibi-Usa pure heart crystal because she couldn't of come to the past and she wouldn't of become Sailor Saturn, then Sailor Moon couldn't of become Eternal Sailor Moon...

Well, technically, Mamoru was still "alive" even if he had his star seed taken from him. If I remember correctly, wasn't the owner still "alive" as long as the star seeds still existed even if the star seed itself was taken from their body? I mean, if you automatically died if your star seed was taken, then Usagi would've been [spoiler]fighting Uranus' and Neptune's ghosts, which wouldn't make sense because they didn't die until after Galaxia took away their bracelets.[/spoiler] So, Mamoru wasn't "dead" in the sense that he can never come back to life, his body was just non-existant.

Rin · Post by **Rin** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:27 am

sailorperkytoot123 wrote:so I sorta can accept it but I thought it was close to being pure luck and a quick jump to a happy ending if you understand what I mean.

The end of the classic season was more bittersweet than happy. Yes all the senshi were brought back to life, but they had no memories of each other. And Rei, Ami, Minako, and Makoto were all lonely before they met Usagi.

But back to Stars. Usagi really annoyed me in the last two episodes. Maybe I'm just not a pacifist but I got really impatient with her "Can't we understand each other?" It would have been different if all her friends were still alive and she tried to do that. I really just wanted to see Usagi fight with a sword.

I also wish there was some sort of sacrifice. Sure all her friends were killed, but they all came back to life. Why couldn't Galaxia have died?

The ending of Stars was a lot like the end of S. Sailor Moon reached to Hotaru who over taken by Mistress 9. Hotaru manages to take her body back. Sailor Moon reaches out to Galaxia who was over taken by chaos. Galaxia manages to take her body back.

Heck the whole season was very similur to S.

Crecent beam · Post by **Crecent beam** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:40 am

I didn't like Mercury's last performance (ep. 191). Her glorious career ended up in a splash of water.

Besides, there's a thing I don't understand. Why did the Starlights participate in every fight of the day if they had just come to find the princess ?

nap* · Post by nap* » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:29 am

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
nap* wrote:Another thing...

If Mamoru had his star seed taken then Chibi-Usa wouldn't exist
Therefore Hotaru couldn't of taken Chibi-Usa pure heart crystal because she couldn't of come to the past and she wouldn't of become Sailor Saturn, then Sailor Moon couldn't of become Eternal Sailor Moon...

Well, technically, Mamoru was still "alive" even if he had his star seed taken from him. If I remember correctly, wasn't the owner still "alive" as long as the star seeds still existed even if the star seed itself was taken from their body? I mean, if you automatically died if your star seed was taken, then Usagi would've been [spoiler]fighting Uranus' and Neptune's ghosts, which wouldn't make sense because they didn't die until after Galaxia took away their bracelets.[/spoiler] So, Mamoru wasn't "dead" in the sense that he can never come back to life, his body was just non-existant.

If that's true why did Chibi-Usa disappear from their her family picture with Usagi and Mamoru

Sailormars Obsessed fan · Post by **Sailormars Obsessed fan** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:11 am

nap* wrote:
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
nap* wrote:Another thing...

If Mamoru had his star seed taken then Chibi-Usa wouldn't exist
Therefore Hotaru couldn't of taken Chibi-Usa pure heart crystal because she couldn't of come to the past and she wouldn't of become Sailor Saturn, then Sailor Moon couldn't of become Eternal Sailor Moon...

Well, technically, Mamoru was still "alive" even if he had his star seed taken from him. If I remember correctly, wasn't the owner still "alive" as long as the star seeds still existed even if the star seed itself was taken from their body? I mean, if you automatically died if your star seed was taken, then Usagi would've been [spoiler]fighting Uranus' and Neptune's ghosts, which wouldn't make sense because they didn't die until after Galaxia took away their bracelets.[/spoiler] So, Mamoru wasn't "dead" in the sense that he can never come back to life, his body was just non-existant.
If that's true why did Chibi-Usa disappear from their her family picture with Usagi and Mamoru

it wasnt a complete time paradox since the possibility of mamoru returning to existance was there. Therefore only minor evidence of the paradox's existance came into effect such as the picture. If galaxia had defeated sailormoon and thus caused mamoru's death to be permanent then the paradox would have taken hold and who knows what would have happened to the timeline. Time paradoxes are at best unpredictable.

SailorMoonFan · Post by **SailorMoonFan** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:38 pm

I also wish there was some sort of sacrifice. Sure all her friends were killed, but they all came back to life. Why couldn't Galaxia have died?

Sailor Moon might not have sacrificed herself or anyone else but if I got it right, Queen Galaxia sacrificed herself by placing Chaos into her body, thinking Chaos would remain dormant. She sacrificed herself so Chaos wouldn't destroy the world and she even sent out her Star Seed. I haven't watched the whole season of Sailor Stars so if I got anything wrong from what I just said, forgive me

#1SailorMoonFan · Post by **#1SailorMoonFan** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:41 pm

^Yes, I believe you got everything right. I think it would have been dramatic to kill Galaxia, but since she wasn't ever truly evil, there was no need to.