Fiore's Sexuality

Sailormars Obsessed fan · Post by **Sailormars Obsessed fan** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:24 am

Jeff wrote:Have you guys ever heard of Ockham's Razor?

Ockham's Razor is a philospohy term that basically means that often times the simplest explanation of something is what is the true explanation and you shouldnt think about it too much, but I dont think you can really use Ockham's Razor effectively in this argument. Actually I dont like the concept of Ockham's Razor at all but thats a different subject.

There's just too many factors at work in this story to use it effectively. Like you gotta take Fiore's mental state into account here. He has never known anyone except Mamoru and that flower. It's true that Mamoru is the same gender as Fiore, and on the surface it seems like Fiore has homosexual feelings toward him but Mamoru is also the only one he has ever really known and he is the only one that has ever shown him kindness. This is a large factor in Fiore's feelings. I mean do we really know if he would have acted any different if it had been Usagi who gave him that flower as a child? No we dont. He might very well have wanted Her all for himself instead of him. His feelings seemed to me to stem more from situations then from sexuality.

Another large factor is the flower. She is really screwing with his mind and amplifying his emotions and all that. his feelings for Mamoru are very much effected by the flower to insane levels. This makes studying his true feelings difficult at best.

I think its possible Fiore's is gay but there just isnt enough evidence in the story to completely prove he is. Wed have to delve further into his character then the movie allows.

Origiri · Post by **Origiri** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:29 am

^I agree. It is safer to assume that Fiore was bisexual, then? To him, gender is not important, he could still love madly anyone who showed that kindness to him.

Which reminds me.. I really should watch the movie some time. But how, this beats me!

Sailormars Obsessed fan · Post by **Sailormars Obsessed fan** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:35 am

Origiri wrote:^I agree. It is safer to assume that Fiore was bisexual, then? To him, gender is not important, he could still love madly anyone who showed that kindness to him.

Which reminds me.. I really should watch the movie some time. But how, this beats me!

no thats not what I was saying. I was saying we dont know what his sexuality is because all we have is situational evidence. He has been alone for a decade with nothing but his memories of a single act of kindness and an evil flower filling his head with lies and wierd energy. How would any of us feel in that situation?

Origiri · Post by **Origiri** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:46 am

So you say even the most dedicated heterosexual guy could still feel the same things for Mamoru in the given situation. Sorry for being such thick-headed but I just had an exam a few hours ago, my brain is buzzling...oh and I must sleep soon.

Sailormars Obsessed fan · Post by **Sailormars Obsessed fan** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:01 am

Origiri wrote:So you say even the most dedicated heterosexual guy could still feel the same things for Mamoru in the given situation. Sorry for being such thick-headed but I just had an exam a few hours ago, my brain is buzzling...oh and I must sleep soon.

your not being thick headed. Psychological arguments are often really confusing lol.

and to answer you its really hard to say what anyone else would feel in that situation. Fiore was terribly mentally abused. That level of abuse makes judging whether his actions come from homosexual feelings or not really impossible.

The movie simply doesnt give enough evidence to make an accurate judgment in this area.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:41 am

Sailormars Obsessed fan wrote:
Jeff wrote:Have you guys ever heard of Ockham's Razor?
Ockham's Razor is a philospohy term that basically means that often times the simplest explanation of something is what is the true explanation and you shouldnt think about it too much, but I dont think you can really use Ockham's Razor effectively in this argument. Actually I dont like the concept of Ockham's Razor at all but thats a different subject.

There's just too many factors at work in this story to use it effectively. Like you gotta take Fiore's mental state into account here. He has never known anyone except Mamoru and that flower. It's true that Mamoru is the same gender as Fiore, and on the surface it seems like Fiore has homosexual feelings toward him but Mamoru is also the only one he has ever really known and he is the only one that has ever shown him kindness. This is a large factor in Fiore's feelings. I mean do we really know if he would have acted any different if it had been Usagi who gave him that flower as a child? No we dont. He might very well have wanted Her all for himself instead of him. His feelings seemed to me to stem more from situations then from sexuality.

Another large factor is the flower. She is really screwing with his mind and amplifying his emotions and all that. his feelings for Mamoru are very much effected by the flower to insane levels. This makes studying his true feelings difficult at best.

I think its possible Fiore's is gay but there just isnt enough evidence in the story to completely prove he is. Wed have to delve further into his character then the movie allows.

See, isn't it a lot easier to just say that he loved Mamoru? Do we really have to rationalize it?

Fans can agree that Ali and En loved Usagi and Mamoru without following that statement with a lengthy disclaimer. Can't we just do the same for Fiore and Mamoru?

Mamoru kissed his flower!

Sailorasteroid · Post by **Sailorasteroid** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:52 pm

Origiri wrote:^No, actually...what is that? Kinky boy&boy stuff?

Lol, no. It's a principle that says that if you have a simple explanation and one that needs a lot of complex reasoning, then the simple one is more likely to be true.

Origiri · Post by **Origiri** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:48 am

^Well Sailorasteroid, I learned it very well from..uh, (checks the name) 'Sailor Mars obsessed fan' 's post, but thank you anyway for trying to right my wrong.

I had no idea. Really. Sorry if I offended any one!

Sailorasteroid · Post by **Sailorasteroid** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:04 am

Origiri wrote:^Well Sailorasteroid, I learned it very well from..uh, (checks the name) 'Sailor Mars obsessed fan' 's post, but thank you anyway for trying to right my wrong. I had no idea. Really. Sorry if I offended any one!

Oh, you know what happened, I was at the end of page 1 and thought it was the end of the thread, and answered the question. My bad.

Umino · Post by **Umino** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:45 am

Jeff wrote:Mamoru kissed his flower!

XD

Sig'd.

Origiri · Post by **Origiri** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:29 am

No problem there, Sailorasteroid!

Umm, can anyone tell me what happens to Fiore at the end of the movie? In the scene I saw pics of, SM'S ginzuishou destroys him completely?

He did not deserve to be disintegrated just he could have had gay feelings for her Mamo-chan!

Crecent beam · Post by **Crecent beam** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:36 am

No, he was not destroyed. He gave a flower of life to Mamoru so he could save usagi, then turned into ChibiFiore and flew away.

Origiri · Post by **Origiri** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:15 pm

I am glad he did not die miserably. Thanks! He was not that evil AFAIK. Poor little cute gay boy!

(ok I am just joking, he is not THAT gay, I agree)

Ravynsoul90 · Post by **Ravynsoul90** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:24 pm

Jeff wrote:To me, it seems obvious that he's gay. It's not in your face, and nobody comes out and says it, but that's the same treatment that Haruka and Michiru get. Everyone sort of dances around it and makes funny faces (like Usagi when Fiore holds Mamoru's hand at th botanical gardens). It seems like it would be more simple to just accept that he loves Mamoru rather than to create explanations about some obsessed form of friendship. That's my opinion, anyway.

I don't think the fact Mamoru and Fiore were only children when their friendship formed has any significance, really. I'm gay and when I was very young I had an intense friendship with another guy who, I found out years later, also turned out to be gay.

That said, I am a huge Mamoru x Fiore fan *points to R movie icon*. I wish there was more of a fan following for them out there. I know Ganymede, who runs the Tuxedo Kamen shrine Domino Effect, is a fan and he probably has some fanart or something.

I agree ::nod nod:: it does seem way too much to flirting was goin on. but i am also a Mamoru X Fiore Fan so that might be an influence <_< but it still, It didnt even seem like the senshi thought that it was "obsessive friendship", espcially from Ami's comment. >_>(which was hilarous in its own little way)

Cardcaptor Takato · Post by **Cardcaptor Takato** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:14 am

I was thinking more of this when I saw the thread updated, and I was thinking that if Fiore was only jealous of Usagi being friends with Mamoru and wasn't in love with him, why did Fiore specifically single out Usagi? Mamoru was also friends with the other Inners and they were all there when Fiore returned. If Fiore was only jealous of Mamoru having another friend, he could have easily singled out any of the other Inners that Mamoru was friends with, but he specifically chose to single out his girlfriend, Usagi.

Fiore might have sent his flower monster to attack all the Soldiers at the beginning of the movie, but when he was fighting against Mamoru, he specifically referenced Usagi's relationship with him and seemed to ignore the other girls during the heat of the battle, even though they were also friends with Mamoru. And if Fiore was only jealous of Mamoru being friends with someone, why did he bargin with Usagi to let her friends go if she surrrended when he captured them?

Since Mamoru was friends with the others too, it seems suspicious to me that Fiore wouldn't just finish them all off and then kill Usagi if he only cared about Mamoru being friends with somebody else, but instead focuses on specifically hurting Usagi the most. Even when Fiore sets the asteroid to burn everyone up in the atmosphere, the majority of the dialog in those scenes are between him and Usagi and he seems to treat the other girls as mere collateral damage. It just strikes me as supsicious if Fiore only saw Mamoru as a friend, why he specifically singled out Usagi and not any of Mamoru's other friends.

Iced_Cappucino · Post by **Iced_Cappucino** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:47 pm

Takato I must say that is a very good argument, It's gotten me thinking

Passions55 · Post by **Passions55** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:07 pm

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:I was thinking more of this when I saw the thread updated, and I was thinking that if Fiore was only jealous of Usagi being friends with Mamoru and wasn't in love with him, why did Fiore specifically single out Usagi? Mamoru was also friends with the other Inners and they were all there when Fiore returned. If Fiore was only jealous of Mamoru having another friend, he could have easily singled out any of the other Inners that Mamoru was friends with, but he specifically chose to single out his girlfriend, Usagi.

Fiore might have sent his flower monster to attack all the Soldiers at the beginning of the movie, but when he was fighting against Mamoru, he specifically referenced Usagi's relationship with him and seemed to ignore the other girls during the heat of the battle, even though they were also friends with Mamoru. And if Fiore was only jealous of Mamoru being friends with someone, why did he bargin with Usagi to let her friends go if she surrrended when he captured them?

Since Mamoru was friends with the others too, it seems suspicious to me that Fiore wouldn't just finish them all off and then kill Usagi if he only cared about Mamoru being friends with somebody else, but instead focuses on specifically hurting Usagi the most. Even when Fiore sets the asteroid to burn everyone up in the atmosphere, the majority of the dialog in those scenes are between him and Usagi and he seems to treat the other girls as mere collateral damage. It just strikes me as supsicious if Fiore only saw Mamoru as a friend, why he specifically singled out Usagi and not any of Mamoru's other friends.

I think Fiore singled Usagi out because she was obviously the one closest to Mamoru than the other girls.

Senshi_of_Vision · Post by **Senshi_of_Vision** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:20 pm

K Im going by what I remember of the movie I should just take it out and watch it. But I got the impression he was homosexual at first as well. Then again Im a grown person who has been in a sexual relationship so its a natural conclusion for me to assume that Fiore would be attracted to Mamoru on that level because its the first thing I would think of someone being that obssessed. That is until you realize obsession and wanting to hurt someone close to assume the target of said obsession so that you can be the favored one doesnt always have to have a sexual context.

To me Im leaning towards him not having a distinct sexual preferance just having an obsession with the only person to show him true affections and kindness. If there was a romantic notion there I think it would have been abit more then hand holding maybe he would have embraced or carressed Mamoru something more. Its kinda sterotypical to call a guy gay just because he is close to another guy friend and probably why so many straight men get all up in arms about having a friend they are close to (that whole dude affect where even leg touching is too much ugh). And if I remember my tape right Mamoru gave him the rose a young usagi gave to him which opened Fiore's eyes to his obsession. If he was so in love with Mamoru it wouldnt have mattered to him and he would have continued to hate Usagi not help. To me it was just his mentality to be protective of a person who cared for him and he seen Usagi not only as a threat to Mamoru's safety he may have also though that if he was close with her that their friendship would be second place or in jeopordy.

But I will agree that with all the side stories for Sailor Moon and all the non cannon couples theyve ran im sort of shocked that there hasnt been a big Mamoru/Fiore fancraze. I mean they are both good looking and would make perfect subjects for that kind of subject.