Sailor Moon a crazy story!?

djtaylor · Post by **djtaylor** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:37 am

think about this...

-Same Age?
Princess Serenity age 14? Prince Endemion age 19? sent to the future to be reborn (along with others). They are reborn and they meet, Usagi age 14? Mamoru age 19? (and the others are the same) ? how did that happen? how are they all be the same ages they once were?

-Cristal "Impress"?
The future according to the R season: Tokyo becomes crystallized (how?) and Usagi becomes the "Impress" of earth, or just Japan. how do you think the people of earth fill about that?

-Time Paradox? If R's future is not the future...
If the 5th season rewrites the future, then what about the events in the 2nd season? If the 2nd season's future did not happen then the 3rd 4rth and 5th seasons coud not have happened the way they did.

And how about moon people that fit in to japan?

Starscream · Post by **Starscream** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:15 am

djtaylor wrote:think about this...

-Same Age?
Princess Serenity age 14? Prince Endemion age 19? sent to the future to be reborn (along with others). They are reborn and they meet, Usagi age 14? Mamoru age 19? (and the others are the same) ? how did that happen? how are they all be the same ages they once were?

Is there any proof that Serenity and Endymion where those ages in the past, too? I don't recall those numbers ever coming up when talk about the Moon Kingdom was occuring.

As for the Inner Senshi...reincarnation works in mysterious ways. One of the central themes of this show is destiny, and whether it works for you or against you, there's no denying it's strong influence; it has a strong role in passive situations such as the reincarnation of the people from the old Moon Kingdom, and is fought against by various characters throughout the series run.

-Cristal "Impress"?
The future according to the R season: Tokyo becomes crystallized (how?) and Usagi becomes the "Impress" of earth, or just Japan. how do you think the people of earth fill about that?

Considering all the crap they've had to deal with (irregular sunspots blotting out the sun for a few days, Infinity Academy being taken over by demons and exploding, and Galaxia terrorizing Tokyo), I'm sure they'd shrug it off as another day in the life of Japan.

Oh, and she's not an "Empress", she's a queen, hence "Neo Queen Serenity".

-Time Paradox? If R's future is not the future...
If the 5th season rewrites the future, then what about the events in the 2nd season? If the 2nd season's future did not happen then the 3rd 4rth and 5th seasons coud not have happened the way they did.

*shrug* When dealing with time travel and events that change the past/future, paradoxes ALWAYS occur. They can be explained away by saying that "changing" the past creates an alternate universe so that the original timeline can still exist to produce the "nasty" future that caused the time travel to begin with.

And how about moon people that fit in to japan?

What, you mean everyone else from the Moon Kingdom? There was no reason for them to recall their lives as citizens of the moon, so they probably lead normal lives; the Inner Senshi and Tuxedo Mask are the only reincarnated individuals that HAD to remember everything in order to fight the Dark Kingdom.

Post by **Tiff** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:10 pm

-Same Age?
Princess Serenity age 14? Prince Endemion age 19? sent to the future to be reborn (along with others). They are reborn and they meet, Usagi age 14? Mamoru age 19? (and the others are the same) ? how did that happen? how are they all be the same ages they once were?

And let's us assume that Princess Serenity and Endymion WERE 14 and 19. Since they're destined to be together, how is it the least bit surprising that they met again at the same ages? Obviously there is magic and cosmic forces working to make sure they end up together, ruling as King Endymion and Neo Queen Serenity, so how is it surprising that they met at the same age in their second lives?

-Cristal "Impress"?
The future according to the R season: Tokyo becomes crystallized (how?) and Usagi becomes the "Impress" of earth, or just Japan. how do you think the people of earth fill about that?

*blink* Um..considering the fact that the people of earth were encased IN ICE and basically had nothing but death coming to them, i'm pretty sure they were fucking grateful that Neo Queen Serenity awoke everyone with her magic and restored peace to the earth.

Time Paradox? If R's future is not the future...
If the 5th season rewrites the future, then what about the events in the 2nd season? If the 2nd season's future did not happen then the 3rd 4rth and 5th seasons coud not have happened the way they did.

-_- Becuase it's a CARTOON. ANY time travel show/movie/cartoon is going to have at least one paradox. The plot is meant to be enjoyed, and not picked apart.

NameGoesHere · Post by **NameGoesHere** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:33 pm

-Same Age?
Princess Serenity age 14? Prince Endemion age 19? sent to the future to be reborn (along with others). They are reborn and they meet, Usagi age 14? Mamoru age 19? (and the others are the same) ? how did that happen? how are they all be the same ages they once were?

Well, maybe they were both around 14 during the Silver Millennium. Fate brought Endymion back early so that he would be more mature and capable of helping the inexperienced, fourteen-year-old Sailor Moon.

Or perhaps Princess Serenity was a couple hundred years old and Endymion was only 19. The people of the Moon were immortal. When reincarnation rolled around, it would have been silly to bring Serenity back sometime in the 1700s, so the Misty Powers of the Universe just dropped her off in the 70s instead.

There are a lot of theories you could throw at that one, but it would all be speculation since Takeuchi never gave any age ranges for the Silver Millennium.

-Cristal "Impress"?
The future according to the R season: Tokyo becomes crystallized (how?) and Usagi becomes the "Impress" of earth, or just Japan. how do you think the people of earth fill about that?

Apparently there were a few dissidents. The people who ended up on Nemesis got there because they refused to be purified by the Ginzuishou. Seeing as how Crystal Tokyo was a thriving place until the Black Moon attacked, I assume that they were the only ones that had a problem with Neo Queen Serenity's power. The whole being rescued from an icy coffin thing tends to make people pretty darn appreciative.

Paradox? I do not understand how the events in Stars make the future of R impossible. I didn't see a future rewrite anywhere. Now I’m confused... Did I miss something big? o_O;

djtaylor · Post by **djtaylor** » Wed May 10, 2006 2:21 pm

I want to make clear that I'm not attacking the show. I love it.

I think about this type of stuff all the time. And wanted to know if any one else had thoughts on these types of things.

Edit: also..
I know that she is called Neo Queen Serenity, I chose "Empress" intentionally, I was (kinda) joking.

Post by **Tiff** » Wed May 10, 2006 4:33 pm

djtaylor wrote:I want to make clear that I'm not attacking the show. I love it.

Nobody said you were attacking the show. You asked, so we answered.

Gamer8585 · Post by **Gamer8585** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:06 pm

NameGoesHere wrote: Apparently there were a few dissidents. The people who ended up on Nemesis got there because they refused to be purified by the Ginzuishou. Seeing as how Crystal Tokyo was a thriving place until the Black Moon attacked, I assume that they were the only ones that had a problem with Neo Queen Serenity's power. The whole being rescued from an icy coffin thing tends to make people pretty darn appreciative.

Its amazing how those that refused the "purifiying light" of the Ginzuishou were the ones who were banished. Did this fact creep anyone else out? It almost makes the Ginzuishou sound like a tool for bainwashing. Maybe the term Empress is more appropriate...First the Earth, then the Moon, then lunch, then the UNIVERSE!

Why did I just get a feeling of deja vu?

Cardcaptor Takato · Post by **Cardcaptor Takato** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:56 pm

The Silver Crystal wasn't used for brainwashing. The people who refused to be purified by the Silver Crystal were banished by Neo Queen Serenity because they were evil. Saying the Silver Crystal brainwashed the people is like saying the government brainwashes people just because there are punishments for criminals who don't follow the law. It's not a very smart idea to let a bunch of evil monsters who threaten to destroy the planet again run loose on their own and do whatever they want without some sort of order, you know. Should Neo Queen Serenity have just let the Black Moon kill everybody?

Gamer8585 · Post by **Gamer8585** » Fri May 12, 2006 4:10 pm

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:The Silver Crystal wasn't used for brainwashing. The people who refused to be purified by the Silver Crystal were banished by Neo Queen Serenity because they were evil. Saying the Silver Crystal brainwashed the people is like saying the government brainwashes people just because there are punishments for criminals who don't follow the law. It's not a very smart idea to let a bunch of evil monsters who threaten to destroy the planet again run loose on their own and do whatever they want without some sort of order, you know. Should Neo Queen Serenity have just let the Black Moon kill everybody?

OH NO! THEY'VE GOTTEN TO YOU TOO!!!!!!

/jk

Seriously though using the Ginzuishou for this kind of purpose is not like throwing someone in jail or makeing them pick up garbage. This alters the fundmental nature of people, it would be closer to a labotomy, or chemical coersion. All done in the name of peace and order, just like when China used its military to crush the Tiennimen protests in 1989.

When the Ginzuishou is used to restore balance to the universe (like when someone is turned into a youma or has been brainwashed by the Black Crystal) it can be a good thing, but when its used to force people to act "good" it can be just as bad as the: Dark Kingdom, Black Moon Clan, Death Busters, Dead Moon Circus, or Chaos.

Sailormars Obsessed fan · Post by **Sailormars Obsessed fan** » Fri May 12, 2006 4:42 pm

what part of the 5th season changed the future? The paradox caused by Nehelania that was going to change it was prevented from taking hold and nothing that happened with Galaxia had any effect on the future we had already seen?

We are still in the dark as to what the ecological disaster that causes usagi to place the earth in stasis for 900 years is. My guess is something that cant be fought with the means they normally use (I dont know if the manga explains this and since the anime is a different story that doesnt really matter anyway.)

So I disagree that any paradox with the cannon was created by events in the 5th season. If I have missed something however let me know

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Fri May 12, 2006 4:58 pm

Gamer8585 wrote:
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:The Silver Crystal wasn't used for brainwashing. The people who refused to be purified by the Silver Crystal were banished by Neo Queen Serenity because they were evil. Saying the Silver Crystal brainwashed the people is like saying the government brainwashes people just because there are punishments for criminals who don't follow the law. It's not a very smart idea to let a bunch of evil monsters who threaten to destroy the planet again run loose on their own and do whatever they want without some sort of order, you know. Should Neo Queen Serenity have just let the Black Moon kill everybody?
OH NO! THEY'VE GOTTEN TO YOU TOO!!!!!!

/jk

Seriously though using the Ginzuishou for this kind of purpose is not like throwing someone in jail or makeing them pick up garbage. This alters the fundmental nature of people, it would be closer to a labotomy, or chemical coersion. All done in the name of peace and order, just like when China used its military to crush the Tiennimen protests in 1989.

When the Ginzuishou is used to restore balance to the universe (like when someone is turned into a youma or has been brainwashed by the Black Crystal) it can be a good thing, but when its used to force people to act "good" it can be just as bad as the: Dark Kingdom, Black Moon Clan, Death Busters, Dead Moon Circus, or Chaos.

Considering that Crystal Tokyo kind of got "punished" for that by the Black Moon family, it might've been a lesson to Neo-Queen Serenity to not use the Ginzuishou for such purposes? This is just something I thought of.

It's interesting, though, I'm not sure if this is on topic here or not, but Usagi gets more and more sympathetic to her enemies as the series goes on. But if that's future Usagi...hmm, maybe she got a little corrupted by her power?

Post by **Tiff** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:12 pm

Gamer8585 wrote: When the Ginzuishou is used to restore balance to the universe (like when someone is turned into a youma or has been brainwashed by the Black Crystal) it can be a good thing, but when its used to force people to act "good" it can be just as bad as the: Dark Kingdom, Black Moon Clan, Death Busters, Dead Moon Circus, or Chaos.

They were given a choice. They could either be purified and try to act like good human beings, or continue being evil. But the consequence of being evil was to be banished to the other planet. It's no different than being thrown in jail for being a criminal. They were put somewhere where they couldn't cause harm anymore. Sailor Moon's job is to protect the universe, and with that job comes the responsibility and judgement of deciding what to do with those who cause a direct, obvious threat to the world.

Gamer8585 · Post by **Gamer8585** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:43 pm

Tiff wrote:
Gamer8585 wrote: When the Ginzuishou is used to restore balance to the universe (like when someone is turned into a youma or has been brainwashed by the Black Crystal) it can be a good thing, but when its used to force people to act "good" it can be just as bad as the: Dark Kingdom, Black Moon Clan, Death Busters, Dead Moon Circus, or Chaos.
They were given a choice. They could either be purified and try to act like good human beings, or continue being evil. But the consequence of being evil was to be banished to the other planet. It's no different than being thrown in jail for being a criminal. They were put somewhere where they couldn't cause harm anymore. Sailor Moon's job is to protect the universe, and with that job comes the responsibility and judgement of deciding what to do with those who cause a direct, obvious threat to the world.

Ah yes, but who defines what is good and what is evil. It seems that the Death Fantom manipulated those banished to Nemesis, making them even more evil and sending them to attack the Earth. Also, this seems a great way to solidify Neo Queen Serenity's royal standing, and crush descent. Are the humans of Crystal Tokyo truly good or are they just acting good because they've been "purified" by the silver crystal?

I believe it was Aristotle that said: good action must be taken of its own accord and stem from good character.

If the people of Crystal Tokyo are acting good only because they cannot act evil, then they are morally neutral. There can be no good without evil, there can be no light without shadow. It is the free will of humans that decides whether a person is truly good, they must be allowed to act either good or bad and rewarded or punished based on that action.

That is how you maintain social stability and human integrity.
Neo Queen Serenity forgot these principals and the planet was brought to ruin.

Post by **Tiff** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:47 pm

Um. Yeah, see, I watch sailor moon becuase I enjoy it as a cartoon. I'm afraid I don't analyze cartoons as much as you're doing now. So I'm refraining from even BOTHERING to try and pick apart your response, becuase that's simply not fun for me to do. I frankly think it's a bit ridiculous. but..*shrugs* that's just me.

Gamer8585 · Post by **Gamer8585** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:51 pm

Tiff wrote:Um. Yeah, see, I watch sailor moon because I enjoy it as a cartoon. I'm afraid I don't analyze cartoons as much as you're doing now. So I'm refraining from even BOTHERING to try and pick apart your response, because that's simply not fun for me to do. I frankly think it's a bit ridiculous. but..*shrugs* that's just me.

Yay, I win!

Normally I don't analyze cartoons either, but I have to put my education to some use and this is the single most ridiculous one I can think of.

Also, I wanted to see how people would react to me casting Usagi-chan as some power hungry despot, and actually backing it up.

Post by **Tiff** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:53 pm

Gamer8585 wrote: Yay, I win!

Normally I don't analyze cartoons either, but I have to put my education to some use and this is the single most ridiculous one I can think of.

Also, I wanted to see how people would react to me casting Usagi-chan as some power hungry despot, and actually backing it up.

It's not a contest. Seriously. I just don't feel the need to analyze a cartoon THAT much. I know it's fun for some people, but i have no fun doing it.

I don't care if you continue the debate, that's fine. I'm just letting you know I'm done with it.

NameGoesHere · Post by **NameGoesHere** » Sat May 13, 2006 12:41 am

I had actually thought about the strangeness surrounding the purification before. My impression was that the people of Nemesis weren't really evil evil until Wise Man manipulated their resentment into fanatical hatred. That's why Saffir was able to purify himself; he wasn't evil to the core.

Even if they were evil, it seems strange. Sailor Moon never asked a youma if it wanted to be healed into next week, so why would she ask the Black Moon Family to be and then banish them for refusing? Would one of the human-turned-monster cases from the first season say yes? Not likely. You can't expect evil things to jump on the Happy-Love Fun Wagon by asking them nicely.

Maybe it was a case of Neo Queen Serenity making a bad call during her rise to power. As Rainbow said, it could have been a lesson. A very big lesson that bit her in the royal behind.

Crecent beam · Post by **Crecent beam** » Sat May 13, 2006 6:30 am

However, it seems to me that the people in Crystal Tokyo are also normal human beings, just like us. I mean they can also sin and do bad things. An example is the governess that yells at Chibiusa for breaking a jug. She was very mean. Actually, that's why the city got destroyed. Chibiusa got sad and decided to take the crystal. Then all the trouble started.
In conclusion, people aren't perfect even there.

Gamer8585 · Post by **Gamer8585** » Sat May 13, 2006 9:47 am

NameGoesHere wrote:I had actually thought about the strangeness surrounding the purification before. My impression was that the people of Nemesis weren't really evil evil until Wise Man manipulated their resentment into fanatical hatred. That's why Saffir was able to purify himself; he wasn't evil to the core.

Even if they were evil, it seems strange. Sailor Moon never asked a youma if it wanted to be healed into next week, so why would she ask the Black Moon Family to be and then banish them for refusing? Would one of the human-turned-monster cases from the first season say yes? Not likely. You can't expect evil things to jump on the Happy-Love Fun Wagon by asking them nicely.

Maybe it was a case of Neo Queen Serenity making a bad call during her rise to power. As Rainbow said, it could have been a lesson. A very big lesson that bit her in the royal behind.

I think when you use it on normal humans its a little different then useing it on a youma. The youma that were purified were humans turned evil by Zoisite, Kunizite, or Wiseman, using the Ginsuizhou just restored the balance and their humainity. However when used on a normal human its like turing a human into a youma only going the oppiosite way: removing all evil from them.

This may seem good at first glance, in fact Usagi probably did it just to prevent another disaster, like the one that destroyed the planet, from happining again. But when she robbed people of their free will she was no better then those who took it in the past; even if her intentions were different.

Plus, who died and made her Queen anyway?

Cardcaptor Takato · Post by **Cardcaptor Takato** » Sat May 13, 2006 10:26 am

Was there ever a time in the Japanese version where they said Neo Queen Serenity was the ruler of the ENTIRE Earth? Try as I might, but I can't remember a single moment where they did. I can remember moments where they said she was queen and ruler of Crystal Tokyo in the 30th Century, but I can't remember a single line in the anime where they said she ruled the ENTIRE Earth. Of course, it's been a while since I've last seen R, but if somebody knows, did they ever actually say Neo Queen Serenity was ruler of the entire planet or was she just ruler of Crystal Tokyo?

Sailor Moon Uncensored

Sailor Moon a crazy story!?

Sailor Moon a crazy story!?

Re: Sailor Moon a crazy story!?