Where could an uncensored, uncut dubbed Stars go?

yoshmaster5 · Post by **yoshmaster5** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 4:00 pm

Sakuya wrote:In my opinion, this is all DiC's and Optimum's fault for the crappy dub job as well as the changed story line to make it into a kids show! I mean I don't see most of the other RECENT anime getting this treatment.

Off-topic

Then you haven't seen the crap Yu-gi-oh! DM was turned into

End Off-topic

Either way, i don't think Stars will come to america. Episode 200, the fact with Mamoru dying, and all the senshi dying... the most they probebly COULD translate would be the Nehelenia mini-saga.
Plus the Starlights changing gender wouldn't help.

Cardcaptor Takato · Post by **Cardcaptor Takato** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:40 pm

Sakuya wrote:In my opinion, this is all DiC's and Optimum's fault for the crappy dub job as well as the changed story line to make it into a kids show! .

That's because Sailor Moon is a kid's show.....the way you talk about it, you're making Sailor Moon sound like porn.

Sakuya · Post by **Sakuya** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:26 pm

Well...it's not porn.

But since my first episode of Sailormoon I saw is in Japanese, I just feel so angry that they screwed it up. To me, Sailormoon is more than a kid's show. It is definitely not Barney or the Fairly Oddparents or Courage the Cowardly Dog. Now THOSE are considered kid shows. Sailormoon definitely is not such a show aimed at kindergartners.....

I'm not making sense am I...?

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:35 pm

Sakuya wrote:Well...it's not porn. But since my first episode of Sailormoon I saw is in Japanese, I just feel so angry that they screwed it up. To me, Sailormoon is more than a kid's show. It is definitely not Barney or the Fairly Oddparents or Courage the Cowardly Dog. Now THOSE are considered kid shows. Sailormoon definitely is not such a show aimed at kindergartners.....

I'm not making sense am I...?

How about this distinction? It's considered a kids' show in Japan, but the Japanese version is considered a teenager and up show here in America. So, yes, it IS a kids' show, just not here.

Sakuya · Post by **Sakuya** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:43 pm

In my humble opinion, BSSM is a magical girl show aimed at older girls in Japan. But aside from that fact, it attracts a wide variety of audience from kids to adults. But when it was dubbed in English, it went down the well and was aimed at little kids. Who knows, do they really understand that stuff about the "Sovereign" and the "Heart Snatchers" in S?

Meanwhile, most of the teenage audience has dismissed that American Sailor Moon is for kids and decides to watch the overly hyped up but just as crappily dubbed Dragon Ball Z.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:34 am

It's not that difficult to grasp Sakuya. Not to sound rude, but I don't see how you can have an "opinion" of who it's aimed at when there are clear marketing strategies. Look at the commercials airing during PGSM... Hello Kitty gum, little girls' toys, etcetera. Those commercials are in there for a reason; the Hello Kitty company put gum instead of a vibrator in there for a reason.

Now, if you were to look at the Sailor Moon commercials themselves that aired during Sailor Stars, they would be very similar. I have have seen two, and one involved a little girl who couldn't be over 10. The other one had Sailor Moon flying around with bright, stimulating colors. The colors....

Now I would be a bit surprised if any dubbing company saw this stuff and said "O we must make it for teenagers!".

Sakuya · Post by **Sakuya** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:31 pm

You do have a point...

But, if it was aimed at kids before, then there will certainly be no problems with the American dubs because it is also for kids. So then why are most people today against the dub?

Post by **Tiff** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:37 pm

Sakuya wrote:You do have a point... But, if it was aimed at kids before, then there will certainly be no problems with the American dubs because it is also for kids. So then why are most people today against the dub?

Becuase they took the show and mutilated it. Whether or not the dub is also aimed at kids is beside the point. The point of why people are against the SM dub is because of how horridly edited, chopped, badly translated, and badly dubbed it was (in most people's opinion, anyway). They took the show and made it into something entirely different.

Anthy · Post by **Anthy** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:39 pm

Sailormoon IS a kids' show in both America and Japan. You can't show me the little jewelry toys and crap and tell me it's marketed at anyone older than 10. Sure, it may have mature themes and underlying messages that older audiences can appreciate, but it's essentially a little girls' show. That doesn't mean only little girls can like it.

The only thing that's different, really, is that North America has different standards and expectations of a kids' show, thus, Sailormoon was changed to fit these standards and expectations.

This creates an almost unsolvable problem. Stars does not fit in with Adult Swim, as it does not appeal to AS's target audience. However, it has too much potentially objectionable material to be put on daytime TV slots uncut. Stars would have to be changed drastically, too. Do we want that?

Sakuya · Post by **Sakuya** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:46 pm

Well, is it possible that Sailor Stars might have ruined BSSM's popularity in Japan once it aired on TV? Therefore, their Sailormoon reruns only go up to SuperS. So maybe Toei doesn't want that to happen to the American dub therefore they won't let Sailor Stars get licensed.

Jumbled Thoughts · Post by **MarioKnight** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:47 pm

Very well said, and you couldn't be any more right (Anthy). You almost can't blame Toei for their reluncantace to bring Stars over here for all those reasons. Uncut release in stores would be the only way to bring Stars over here, there is no way a TV airing would work.

Edit a few minutes later seeing that a post popped up etween mine and Anthy's:

Stars didn't hurt SM's popularity in Japan, it helped recover some of it from SuperS. Like I said above I can almost understand Toei's reasoning in not letting it come over, but as to why they treat it as they do in Japan is beyond me.

Stephen Victor · Post by **Stephen Victor** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:24 pm

I honestly don't think that Stars would be all that difficult to edit. They'd probably just make up some story about the Starlights like that they call upon their twin sisters to fight like in the Italian SM dub. I mean, why couldn't they? It doesn't seem like it'd be much harder to do than turning Zoisite and Fisheye into females and making Haruka and Michiru cousins. With episode 200, all they'd have to do is paint a bikini on Usagi or something of that nature. As for [spoiler] the deaths of all the sailor senshi [/spoiler] I don't think that'd be a problem. Cloverway obviously doesn't have a problem with death like DiC does since they didn't try to edit out [spoiler] the "deaths" of Uranus and Neptune [/spoiler] in episode 110.

Sakuya · Post by **Sakuya** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:26 am

[spoiler]I don't think that counts as death because Mars heard Uranus' heart still beating, but faint.[/spoiler]

Stephen Victor · Post by **Stephen Victor** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:46 am

Sakuya wrote: [spoiler] I don't think that counts as death because Mars heard Uranus' heart still beating, but faint. [/spoiler]

[spoiler] Well, that's why I put quotes around "death." It's just that in episode 110 it was made to look as if Uranus and Neptune had died, although in the following episode it revealed they weren't really dead. [/spoiler]

RoastedTwinkies · Post by **RoastedTwinkies** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:58 pm

I wish that Sailormoon was licenced later (ie Pioneer getting the rights to Classic and R in 2000 or something) then perhaps it wouldn't be as difficult to air the Stars which would eventually follow... but wait! I think even if it was licenced later, there would still be no way that the first 6 episodes of stars and episode 200 would ever stand a chance of airing here without being edited.

Jed-kun · Post by **Jed-kun** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:48 pm

Unfotunately if SM was licenced later that would change the face of anime in America drastically. SM was one of the gateway anime's that helped to start the large shipment to americs. Sadly, good show's like Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon had to be sacraficed to the crazy American editors.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:53 pm

That just gave me a weird mental image of Sailor Moon and the main DBZ character (Goku?) tied up with people holding scissors to them. (yes, I am a literalist)

I think that SailorStars could be shown, but only very censored. And while that wouldn't bother the general American populace, it would greatly anger the Sailor Moon purists. Now which do you REALLY think the dubbing companies are trying to please here?

Sailor X · Post by **Sailor X** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:56 pm

Jeff wrote:It's not that difficult to grasp Sakuya. Not to sound rude, but I don't see how you can have an "opinion" of who it's aimed at when there are clear marketing strategies. Look at the commercials airing during PGSM... Hello Kitty gum, little girls' toys, etcetera. Those commercials are in there for a reason; the Hello Kitty company put gum instead of a vibrator in there for a reason.

Now, if you were to look at the Sailor Moon commercials themselves that aired during Sailor Stars, they would be very similar. I have have seen two, and one involved a little girl who couldn't be over 10. The other one had Sailor Moon flying around with bright, stimulating colors. The colors....

Now I would be a bit surprised if any dubbing company saw this stuff and said "O we must make it for teenagers!".

*laughs at the vibrator comment* Oy... imagine a Hello Kitty vibrator... kinda makes the "Hello Kitty... play with us today... when you see what's waiting for you..." sound different, dosen't it?

I always thought that PGSM really was aimed at little girls, myself. BSSM, now, I dunno. It is at the point where little girls can watch it without being scared or stuff like that. I think this was realized, oh...maybe around the tme when Japanese stations were deluged with phone calles after the deaths of the senshi in episodes 45-46, and took advantage of this and made things for little girls to be interested in. (i.e. CHIBI-USA) SailorStars, in my opinion, is nothing like that. Little girls can easily be scared with that finale, and then there are things like episode 181 (No five-year-old should be able to understand "Oh... you meant dancing..." I hope...) and other comments like that in the parenthesis. One will notice that the plots grow along with the fans. A dubbed SailorStars can very well be aimed at teenagers. I still say it could go on Showtime Beyond or Action...

EDIT: I can't go on Showtime Beyond or Action! They don't givre a damn about me! SailorSatrs can, though.

Post by **Tiff** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:11 pm

Sailor X wrote: *laughs at the vibrator comment* Oy... imagine a Hello Kitty vibrator... kinda makes the "Hello Kitty... play with us today... when you see what's waiting for you..." sound different, dosen't it?

there IS a hello kitty vibrator. Well, it's actually a small back massager, but it looks so much like a vibrator that it's advertised as so on several websites. I want one *wicked grin* just for the sake of having one.

I think this was realized, oh...maybe around the tme when Japanese stations were deluged with phone calles after the deaths of the senshi in episodes 45-46, and took advantage of this and made things for little girls to be interested in. (i.e. CHIBI-USA) SailorStars, in my opinion, is nothing like that. Little girls can easily be scared .... I still say I could go on Showtime Beyond or Action...

I think it's all in how it's presented. Take what Jeff said, for example..he mentioned that all of the toy commercials and all of that were aired during the show in Japan. That way, it looks more like a kid's show. Now, if you aired it on Showtime Beyond, with commercials with scarey shows, Dirty Pair, and adult comedies, it would come off more as something kids shouldn't watch. It's all in how the release is presented.

Anthy · Post by **Anthy** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:38 pm

Tiff wrote:there IS a hello kitty vibrator. Well, it's actually a small back massager, but it looks so much like a vibrator that it's advertised as so on several websites. I want one *wicked grin* just for the sake of having one.

"Look! Hello Kitty really purrs!"