DiC vs. Cloverway

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Post by sailormelvin » Fri Nov 07, 2003 10:01 pm

I can't decide really I think the cloverway dub is better, the orginal music which by the way i think they only kept to speed things up made everything better. When you watch the uncut s DVDs with the english track and the subtitles of the jap version on you really see the diffrences though and the cousins crap made me very mad, what makes me mad about both of the dubs is that most of the time they had no reason to change the scene for instance the times when Lita talks about her mom that makes me the most pissed, it is like saying that the children of america are to dumb to think that familes aren't always just a mom and dad. The attack names don't bother me really i mean think about it, if you were fighting monsters so fast trying to save your ass I think the sailor soldiers would just yell out whatever just to get an attack out there, it might sound strange but if the sailor senshi were real i don't think they would worry about saying thunder go and living for another or trying to remeber sparkling wide pressure and being burned to a crisp.
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Post by Rindesayu » Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:01 pm

On a quick note,what I thought DiC and Cloverway did that was also superior to the original was making up their own little titles for the episodes.The titles for the original version would always ruin a major event that happened in the episode,so I thought it was smart of the dubbing companies to change the titles so nothing would be spoiled.Anyone agree?

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Post by Chibi chibi star » Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:16 pm

Yeah, but some of the titles are cool like the one that introduced Chibi Moon was "The Small Pretty Soldier Came" (Japanese title), and Cloverway's one was "Hello, Sailor Mini Moon!"so that's like spoiling, only Japan's one was subtle spoiling. Also, Cloverway's infamous title "Related by Destiny" compared to Japan's "Bonds of Destiny!" was pretty stupid (if you know what I mean. :wink: ). But I'd have to agree with you that some of the titles were good (since I'm kinda a dubbie, but I'm gonna see the Japanese ones!) when I watched them because I was like "Cool! I wonder what's gonna happen today?" when I was little.
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Post by Quark » Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:42 am

Rindesayu wrote:On a quick note,what I thought DiC and Cloverway did that was also superior to the original was making up their own little titles for the episodes.The titles for the original version would always ruin a major event that happened in the episode,so I thought it was smart of the dubbing companies to change the titles so nothing would be spoiled.Anyone agree?
I liked the Japanese titles better cause some of them were really cute sounding, like Chibi Usa's Little Rhapsody of Love. But you are right about the spoilers, it almost ruins the episode because you know that something drastic is going to happen.

At any rate, I think Cloverway did a better job with the dubbing, simply because the background music was there, and it was closer to the original. And I preferred 'Serena's' voice in the Cloverway dub than in the DiC since her Cloverway voice was really cute, and she had times where she sounded really sweet and caring.
About the DiC dub though, when I was younger, I would watch it and get so confused whenever they had Kana in the background. I couldn't figure out whether the show was set in America or Japan, since they were speaking English, but there were Japanese characters in the background.

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Post by Rainbow » Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:25 am

Rindesayu wrote:On a quick note,what I thought DiC and Cloverway did that was also superior to the original was making up their own little titles for the episodes.The titles for the original version would always ruin a major event that happened in the episode,so I thought it was smart of the dubbing companies to change the titles so nothing would be spoiled.Anyone agree?
I definitely agree. It's something I try to watch out for when I'm writing chapter titles (and story titles) for my fanfics...I don't want to make up a title that spoils the whole thing for the reader!

You've got a point about the original. Especially the title for episode 34, "Shine, Silver Crystal! The Moon Princess Appears!" or something like that. What was the DiC title? I think it was "A Crystal Clear Destiny," so far as I remember. That sounds a little more vague at least. An even better example is the one where Mars appears, the Japanese title gives it away (I don't remember what it is) but the DiC title just has something to do with charms, I think. Nothing to do with Mars, though.
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Post by Cardcaptor Takato » Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:33 am

The episode where Princess Serenity appears is indeed known as, "A Crystal Clear Destiny" in the DiC dub. The episode wher Sailor Mars appears in the DiC dub was entitled, "A Charmed Life." Though, there is also an episode in the R season DiC named "An Uncharmed Life," so I often will get those two titles confused. ><

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Post by Jeff » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:25 pm

Rindesayu wrote:On a quick note,what I thought DiC and Cloverway did that was also superior to the original was making up their own little titles for the episodes.The titles for the original version would always ruin a major event that happened in the episode,so I thought it was smart of the dubbing companies to change the titles so nothing would be spoiled.Anyone agree?
Cloverway came up with really dumb names. "Kickin' Into High Gear", wtf? I think Simon and Garfunkel wrote the S ending ("the sound of silence", "Darkness, My Old Friend".. points to anyone who gets it.)... although the sound of silence was in the original, I just thought it was funny.

Dic had like 10 episodes that ended in either "Fetish" or "Blues"... real creative right there.

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Post by Quark » Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:56 pm

Jeff wrote:
Rindesayu wrote:On a quick note,what I thought DiC and Cloverway did that was also superior to the original was making up their own little titles for the episodes.The titles for the original version would always ruin a major event that happened in the episode,so I thought it was smart of the dubbing companies to change the titles so nothing would be spoiled.Anyone agree?
Cloverway came up with really dumb names. "Kickin' Into High Gear", wtf? I think Simon and Garfunkel wrote the S ending ("the sound of silence", "Darkness, My Old Friend".. points to anyone who gets it.)... although the sound of silence was in the original, I just thought it was funny.

Dic had like 10 episodes that ended in either "Fetish" or "Blues"... real creative right there.
Fetish?! But fetish is associated with sex, and sex is bad, therefore the children will all start developing these bizarre sex fetishes and it's all Sailor Moon's fault.
Also, about the Simon and Garfunkel thing, it's nice that I'm not the only person who thought that. Especially the Darkness, My Old Friend.

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Post by Rainbow » Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:42 pm

Quark wrote: Fetish?! But fetish is associated with sex, and sex is bad, therefore the children will all start developing these bizarre sex fetishes and it's all Sailor Moon's fault.
Also, about the Simon and Garfunkel thing, it's nice that I'm not the only person who thought that. Especially the Darkness, My Old Friend.
To me a fetish is like an obsession, except a fetish is milder and is usually concrete (like with doing a certain action or a type of object) while an obsession can be with an idea (like how I seem to have a slight obsession with the idea of being reserved). I've noticed that different people have different definitions of words though.
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Post by Tiff » Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:20 pm

Rainbow wrote:
To me a fetish is like an obsession, except a fetish is milder and is usually concrete (like with doing a certain action or a type of object) while an obsession can be with an idea (like how I seem to have a slight obsession with the idea of being reserved). I've noticed that different people have different definitions of words though.
fet·ish also fet·ich ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ftsh, ftsh)
n.
Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.
An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation
.

you're right about the obsession, rainbow, but you're not right that it's milder. It's an abnormal obsession. For example, a foot fetish. Someone with a foot fetish needs to be surrounded by feet (images, real, videos, etc) to be gratified whether it be sexually or just gratified in general. It's moreso directed toward sex, though. So it'd be pretty stupid to use the word "fetish" in a sailor moon title.

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Post by Rainbow » Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:23 pm

Tiff wrote: fet·ish also fet·ich ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ftsh, ftsh)
n.
Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.
An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation
.

you're right about the obsession, rainbow, but you're not right that it's milder. It's an abnormal obsession. For example, a foot fetish. Someone with a foot fetish needs to be surrounded by feet (images, real, videos, etc) to be gratified whether it be sexually or just gratified in general. It's moreso directed toward sex, though. So it'd be pretty stupid to use the word "fetish" in a sailor moon title.
Thanks for showing me that. As much as I like to "play" with dictionaries (usually to look up the word "reserved" and its synonyms over and over again, actually), I've never seen the word "fetish" defined. I just got a vague definition from seeing/hearing it used and then formed my own meaning and connotations about it.
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Post by Tiff » Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:25 pm

Rainbow wrote:
Thanks for showing me that. As much as I like to "play" with dictionaries (usually to look up the word "reserved" and its synonyms over and over again, actually), I've never seen the word "fetish" defined. I just got a vague definition from seeing/hearing it used and then formed my own meaning and connotations about it.
*nods* a lot of people use it incorrectly, which is probably why you picked up on it that way. I've heard people refer to it in this way: If someone really likes cheese, someone will say "what is with your fetish with cheese?". That's not correct.

Anywho, back to topic.

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Post by Rainbow » Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:30 pm

I wonder what it would be like if DiC had done S and SuperS and Cloverway had done Classic and R?

One guess is that Cloverway would've kept everyone's names in the first place (like with Hotaru's name), or at least some of them, and then what would happen if DiC didn't like those Japanese names, since they were the company that changed the names more.
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Post by Neo Dead Moon » Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:47 am

A little late to be giving my two cents, but here it goes anyway..

I like DiC better. Compared to Cloverway, the voices, writing, and audio levels were slightly better. However, they constantly edited tiny things all over the place, cut out whole episodes, and changed virtually every character's name. And some of the voices they did choose smelled of something awful...Molly, Luna (though I can tolerate it), Amy, Rini, and Terri Hawkes Serena.

Then we have Cloverway. They kept all the episodes, all the Japanese music, and most of the Japanese names, but in my opinion, this just makes it all the more frustrating when you mix this with stupid dialogue, combined with mono music and sound effects you can barely make it (especially if you're watching Pioneer/Geneon's DVDs of the S and SuperS seasons). Not to mention they were entirely inconsistent in both S and SuperS..

And the voices. Dear God, the voices. I NEVER thought I would miss Amy's first voice, but I do. Other dreadful voices included Amara, Michelle, Trista, dub Hotaru, the new Serena (you suck, Linda!), Zirconia, Fish Eye (who sounds eerily like Mickey Mouse), Elizabeth, Nehelania/Nelehania (can't spell it =D), and more. It's almost as if Optimum WANTED to ruin Sailormoon..

So who do I choose at the end? DiC. Not only because they were the ones who got me into Sailormoon in the first place, but because despite all the editing and such they made, they really did try harder in dubbing. Even the last 17 episodes of R, which most claim are rushed, are of higher quality than Cloverway's dub, and are arguably the best dubbed episodes of Sailormoon to date.

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Post by Dinozore » Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:32 pm

¬.¬ Stupid forum, stop dying when I try to post!

Actually, I think Serena's VA in the Cloverway dub got better over time...
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Post by Tiff » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:58 pm

Dinozore wrote:¬.¬ Stupid forum, stop dying when I try to post!

Actually, I think Serena's VA in the Cloverway dub got better over time...
Well, it's like I said..her voice wasn't bad when she didn't try to sound stupid.

Joey: The question is, Rachel, does he like you? ''Cuz if he doesn''t, then it''s all just a moo point.
Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
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Post by Quark » Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:32 am

Dinozore wrote:¬.¬ Stupid forum, stop dying when I try to post!

Actually, I think Serena's VA in the Cloverway dub got better over time...
I agree with you 100% on that. In SuperS her voice was almost tolerable. Hell, there were some points where I thought her voice was kind of cute. I dunno, her voice seemed more suited for Usagi than Terri Hawke's voice, just because she could sound really goofy at some points, and really tender and compassionate at others.

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Post by Tiff » Thu Nov 13, 2003 2:27 am

Quark wrote:
I agree with you 100% on that. In SuperS her voice was almost tolerable. Hell, there were some points where I thought her voice was kind of cute. I dunno, her voice seemed more suited for Usagi than Terri Hawke's voice, just because she could sound really goofy at some points, and really tender and compassionate at others.
Well, during those serious moments, like as Princess Serenity in S, she sounded really, really good. But it was when she was forcefully trying to sound like the old Serena that she sounded bad. When she just relaxed, it was fine.

Joey: The question is, Rachel, does he like you? ''Cuz if he doesn''t, then it''s all just a moo point.
Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
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Post by J Anderson » Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:23 am

I still question the validity of some cuts. Episode 5 was most likely NOT cut to to Haruna's dress being flipped up. I base this on the photography episode, where Haruna and Naru are shown in smallish swimsuits. Which were far more revealing.

Odds are a few things were cut for censorship, others for time.

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Post by Stephen Victor » Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:57 am

J Anderson wrote:I still question the validity of some cuts. Episode 5 was most likely NOT cut to to Haruna's dress being flipped up. I base this on the photography episode, where Haruna and Naru are shown in smallish swimsuits. Which were far more revealing. .
Episode two was the episode which involved a scene with Haruna's dress being flipped up. I personally believe it probably wasn't just that scene that ended up with the episode being cut, it probably had to do with the general theme of teenage boys being cruel, disrespectful and rebellious that was the reason it was cut. Come to think of it, does anyone know the reasons why episodes 2, 5, 6, 20, 42 and 67 were cut? With episodes 2 and 6, I can guess that they were cut because of objectionable content, but I have no idea why the others were.

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