DiC vs. Cloverway

#1SailorMoonFan · Post by **#1SailorMoonFan** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:25 pm

DiC!!!!!! I give them an A+! Cloverway on the other hand, I give an F+!

DiC High points:
Wonderful voice acting
Awesome music
It's what got me into the show
Made an awesome theme song
Barely any slang
Screams were screams. Not orgasms.
OK, I admit it, I LOVE Luna's voice

The Dark Kingdom's backround theme. Much creepier than the original

CONSISTENT

Cloverway highpoints:
Stayed closer to music and the script.

DiC badpoints:
Butchered the show

Cloverway badpoints:
Everything else

HighC · Post by **HighC** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:28 am

edit:screw everything I said I was rewatching S on Youtube the job Cloverway did was way to unprofessional. Keeping the music was Cloverway's only saving grace. I'll change my vote to Dic simply because like Dan mentioned earlier they put more effort into it.

Chase Man! · Post by **Chase Man!** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:29 pm

Personally, choosing which one is better is like saying what kind of death you prefer. Like, for example, you die either by the chair (slow and painful) or by drinking poison.

But, if some rabid Sailor Moon dub fan point a gun to my head and said "WHICK ONE IZ BETTER???!!!!1!!!11", I guess I'll choose Cloverway. Yeah yeah, I don't care that much about the whole "WORLD SHAKING (one episode later) URANUS WORLD SHAKING" thing, but I rather have soothing music and a half-assed attempt than hear the crappy music from DiC and see a crappy orginal version (unless you ignorethe orginal Japanesse version, which is hard to do). Besides, they can say die!

However, you guys did rasie some good points about DiC's dub...

But still, crap is crap. No matter how different it is, no matter what you do to it, it's still crap. I mean, if I had the choce of either watching 3 crappy shorts from the (god knows how many) WB cartoons or a episode of Sailor Moon dubbed, I'll take the crappy shorts! At least each one of them is 6 to 8 minutes long!

HighC · Post by **HighC** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:54 pm

I noticed people are calling Cloverway out for being inconsitent but it's not like Dic was the masters of consistencies themselves.

The episode Moon calls her attack Moon Tiara vaporize

Occasionally they messed up and called the Negaverse the Negaforce

For a while the Silver Imperium Crystal would also be called the Silver Moon Crystal (mostly by Neflyte)

The Dark Crystal was called the Star Crystal when Neflyte had it then the dark crystal when Zoycite had it.

Jupiter's attack would change from Supreme Thunder to Jupiter Thunder to Jupiter Thunder Crash

Venus's attack would be called Venus Cresent Beam and then Venus Crescent beam smash.

Moon Sceptre Elimination and then later Moon Scepter Activation

Mercury Ice Strom Blast and then later Shine Aqua Illusion

And there were a lot of times DIC confused the hell out of me too. Like why in the hell did the Scouts lose their memories after the battle with Queen Beryl? Why do Serena and Darien have the exact same names in their past lives as they do in their current lives? If Alan and Ann are from the Negaverse why does the last episode with them contradict this? If Darien wasn't sure that it was his real name then why was he Prince Darien like that makes a difference. For a while I didn't think anyone died at the Moon Kingdom except Queen Serenity and that everyone was sent to the future of earth and were merely adopted by the people who found them. So the flashback in R with Serena and Darien as kids on earth mad
e me go What?!

As for the voices all the voices for all four seasons were done by Optimum and every season had sucky voices and a good voices

T

sailorperkytoot123 · Post by **sailorperkytoot123** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:50 pm

You raise some good points, although I must say Cloverways inconsistancies were more frequent and noticeable. Also, Dic never called Mina's attack "Venus Crescent Beam." It always had "Smash" on the end in their episodes. It WAS "Venus Crescent Beam" in the S movie I believe, but that wasn't Dic if my memory serves me correctly. Oh, and I'm just kind of confused why you would have thought the people were adopted when sent to the future. It would seem weird for a bunch of people to go and adopt all these full-grown adults (well I guess the senshi, princess, and prince were younger), not that there's anything wrong with adopting someone a bit older than a child, it just seems uncommon and out of the ordinary. It's not the first idea my mind would fathom, but that's just my opinion.

SailorBallerinaMoon · Post by **SailorBallerinaMoon** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:50 am

Both are definitely painful to watch but Cloverway isnt as bad. While both our inconsistent, I tend to cut Cloverway some slack with the inconsistencies because they are much closer to the original than DIC. DIC cant even decide on their invent name"s name(Negaverse vs Negaforce). And watching the dubbed, uncut SMS and SMSS isnt that bad, whereas the DIC one is HORRILE and way off from the original while cloverway is only half off.

HighC · Post by **HighC** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:28 pm

sailorperkytoot123 wrote:Oh, and I'm just kind of confused why you would have thought the people were adopted when sent to the future. It would seem weird for a bunch of people to go and adopt all these full-grown adults (well I guess the senshi, princess, and prince were younger), not that there's anything wrong with adopting someone a bit older than a child, it just seems uncommon and out of the ordinary. It's not the first idea my mind would fathom, but that's just my opinion.

Well for one thing I was about 8. Then Serena and Darien had the exact same names in their past lives as they did in their present lives. (Seriously that annoys me more than anything) then they never (as i could recall) said that anyone died on the moon kingdom and that Queen Serenity sent them to the future on earth. And their memories lost. So I thought they just fell on earth in the future and had amnesia. I didn't think too much in it. I wasn't thinking about the entire Moon Kingdom as a whole just the Senshi and Endymion and Serenity.

Aya Reiko · Post by **Aya Reiko** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:30 am

The whole purpose of the topic is sort of a moot point.

Optimum handled the dubbing for both DiC and Cloverway. So really there is only one company to blame for the butchering of the dub.

...

BTW, whatever happened to Optimum and CWI?

HighC · Post by **HighC** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:57 am

Aya Reiko wrote:The whole purpose of the topic is sort of a moot point.

Optimum handled the dubbing for both DiC and Cloverway. So really there is only one company to blame for the butchering of the dub.

...

BTW, whatever happened to Optimum and CWI?

That is true but didn't DiC and Cloverway oversee dubbing and make sure it was suitable for what they wanted? I'm sure it was Dic's idea to use the Negaverse stuff and Cloverway's idea to have eveyone talk in outdated slang. And I think the dub music is DIC's since the edited dub movies do credit DiC for the music.

Umino · Post by **Umino** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:35 pm

Cloverways hands down.

C'mon people DIC chopped up Sailor Moon in a million pieces. The beautiful OST was replaced by crappy music (can we even call it that?). Scenes were cut, and rearranged for no reason. Not to mention the completely idiotic script changes. All the villians are related? Really DIC? All evil creatures are from some place called the Negaverse? DIC couldn't handle serious scenes at all. Ethier due to bad acting, or stupid lines like "I'm gonna whip your butt!". Don't even get me started on the skipped episodes.

Cloverway was 1000 times better. Having the original music is a huge plus. Not only that, but they dubbed most of the insert songs too. With the exception of Ainosenshi, the songs came out great. Unlike DIC, they actually attempted to translate episodes instead of just changing them. Name changes were pretty rare. You'd never hear a name like "Karikariko" or "Yoshiki Usui" in the DIC dub.

Of course Cloverway does have it's flaws. The Sailor Moon S dub was one big flaw. It had potential, and some of the episodes came out great. But overall, it was bad. Making Uranus and Neptune cousins is excusable. Why they couldn't have just tone down their romance to "friendship" is beyond me. The inconsistant plot names were horrible. I can stand inconsistant attacks, not MAJOR ideas relating to the plot. Although, I can *kinda* forgive the mistakes in CWI's dub. Afterall, it was rushed. Plus, it seemed like they were trying to stay faithful to the Japanese dub, but also to the DIC dub too. Had they dubbed the series from the start, I'm sure they wouldn't have half of the problems they had.

Thankfully, SuperS was alot better. Original music, dubbed songs. Voice acting had improved. Only attacks were inconsistant, even then it didn't happen alot. The name changes were minimal. The only real problem with the SuperS dub were the treatments of Zirconia and Fisheye. Zirconia's sex change was stupid, and I think was only done so they could justify giving her a Yoda voice. Fisheye's sexchange was also stupid, atleast in regards to the uncut dub. Fisheye being a girl in the edited version is fine. The uncut version is a different story. It's dumb seeing a shirtless, masculine Fisheye being referred to as a "she", or "psycho woman". Optimum should've had a few lines redubbed to fix this.

On a side note, I'm sick of people claiming that DIC wasn't inconsistant. While not as bad as CWI, they were pretty inconsistant with attacks. Remeber how "Supreme Thunder" literally changed every episode? Or how "Moon Crystal Power" became "Moon Star Power" during the Blackmoon arc? Or how about "Moon Scepter Elimination" becoming "Moon Scepter Activation", and then "Moon Princess Elminiation"? Not to mention DIC made stupid script errors too. Like Raye mentioning Tuxedo Mask in an episode he had no part in.

And finally, Terri Hawkes sucks. I don't understand how anyone could stand her. Her voice is too valleygirl, and she has a bad habit of changing the volume of her voice for no reason. Linda Ballentyne had a rough start, but was pretty decent in SuperS. She actually played Serena as a funny, cute character. Plus she was really good at serious scenes. Terri on the other hand, wasn't. She ruined every scene with Princess Serenity with her fake British "princess" accent. Of course, Tracey Moore will always be the best "Serena".

Chase Man! · Post by **Chase Man!** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:08 pm

Umino wrote:Cloverways hands down.

C'mon people DIC chopped up Sailor Moon in a million pieces. The beautiful OST was replaced by crappy music (can we even call it that?). Scenes were cut, and rearranged for no reason. Not to mention the completely idiotic script changes. All the villians are related? Really DIC? All evil creatures are from some place called the Negaverse? DIC couldn't handle serious scenes at all. Ethier due to bad acting, or stupid lines like "I'm gonna whip your butt!". Don't even get me started on the skipped episodes.

Cloverway was 1000 times better. Having the original music is a huge plus. Not only that, but they dubbed most of the insert songs too. With the exception of Ainosenshi, the songs came out great. Unlike DIC, they actually attempted to translate episodes instead of just changing them. Name changes were pretty rare. You'd never hear a name like "Karikariko" or "Yoshiki Usui" in the DIC dub.

Of course Cloverway does have it's flaws. The Sailor Moon S dub was one big flaw. It had potential, and some of the episodes came out great. But overall, it was bad. Making Uranus and Neptune cousins is excusable. Why they couldn't have just tone down their romance to "friendship" is beyond me. The inconsistant plot names were horrible. I can stand inconsistant attacks, not MAJOR ideas relating to the plot. Although, I can *kinda* forgive the mistakes in CWI's dub. Afterall, it was rushed. Plus, it seemed like they were trying to stay faithful to the Japanese dub, but also to the DIC dub too. Had they dubbed the series from the start, I'm sure they wouldn't have half of the problems they had.

Thankfully, SuperS was alot better. Original music, dubbed songs. Voice acting had improved. Only attacks were inconsistant, even then it didn't happen alot. The name changes were minimal. The only real problem with the SuperS dub were the treatments of Zirconia and Fisheye. Zirconia's sex change was stupid, and I think was only done so they could justify giving her a Yoda voice. Fisheye's sexchange was also stupid, atleast in regards to the uncut dub. Fisheye being a girl in the edited version is fine. The uncut version is a different story. It's dumb seeing a shirtless, masculine Fisheye being referred to as a "she", or "psycho woman". Optimum should've had a few lines redubbed to fix this.

On a side note, I'm sick of people claiming that DIC wasn't inconsistant. While not as bad as CWI, they were pretty inconsistant with attacks. Remeber how "Supreme Thunder" literally changed every episode? Or how "Moon Crystal Power" became "Moon Star Power" during the Blackmoon arc? Or how about "Moon Scepter Elimination" becoming "Moon Scepter Activation", and then "Moon Princess Elminiation"? Not to mention DIC made stupid script errors too. Like Raye mentioning Tuxedo Mask in an episode he had no part in.

And finally, Terri Hawkes sucks. I don't understand how anyone could stand her. Her voice is too valleygirl, and she has a bad habit of changing the volume of her voice for no reason. Linda Ballentyne had a rough start, but was pretty decent in SuperS. She actually played Serena as a funny, cute character. Plus she was really good at serious scenes. Terri on the other hand, wasn't. She ruined every scene with Princess Serenity with her fake British "princess" accent. Of course, Tracey Moore will always be the best "Serena".

Other than the last paragraph (I should probably watch all of the episodes before I make my opinion), I agree with Umino. Yeah, I said my reasons, but Umino said it WAY better than I did.

sailorperkytoot123 · Post by **sailorperkytoot123** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:48 pm

HighC wrote:
sailorperkytoot123 wrote:Oh, and I'm just kind of confused why you would have thought the people were adopted when sent to the future. It would seem weird for a bunch of people to go and adopt all these full-grown adults (well I guess the senshi, princess, and prince were younger), not that there's anything wrong with adopting someone a bit older than a child, it just seems uncommon and out of the ordinary. It's not the first idea my mind would fathom, but that's just my opinion.
Well for one thing I was about 8. Then Serena and Darien had the exact same names in their past lives as they did in their present lives. (Seriously that annoys me more than anything) then they never (as i could recall) said that anyone died on the moon kingdom and that Queen Serenity sent them to the future on earth. And their memories lost. So I thought they just fell on earth in the future and had amnesia. I didn't think too much in it. I wasn't thinking about the entire Moon Kingdom as a whole just the Senshi and Endymion and Serenity.

Sorry, I hope I didn't sound like I was trying to insult your intelligence or anything. I was just confused. But I understand what you mean now. I myself was only 6 or 7 when I first started watching it, and some of the stuff I just inferred and it happened to be correct (I'm not trying to brag there, it was truly just pure coincidence that I guessed correctly on some things). Probably because I've always seemed to involuntarily analyze things, which can be an annoying habit. But I'm pretty sure they DO say that they were sent to the future. I'm positive they did say their memories were lost. But you're right, they didn't say they died. Because DiC is smart and they know that children will become violent criminals if death is mentioned.

I could understand if all the Moon Kingdom people were ripped in half and their organs spilled onto the ground, but that's not the case of course. Nice going DiC.

wink568 · Post by **wink568** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:04 am

Cloverway by far. I could actually watch the show. Granted, yeah, I watched classic and R, but I was way younger when those came out.

The Original music was great and the storyline was pretty intact.

Sure, the whole cousins thing stunk (I actually read an article in the Entertainment Section of my local paper on it, lol), and the voice actors weren't great, but DiC wouldn't have done that any better anyway.

HighC · Post by **HighC** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:07 am

Umino wrote:Cloverways hands down.

Cloverway was 1000 times better. Having the original music is a huge plus.

I agree retaining the original BGM was a huge plus. For that reason I would rather watch a crappy Cloverway episode then a mediocre Dic episode.

Umino wrote:Not only that, but they dubbed most of the insert songs too. With the exception of Ainosenshi, the songs came out great.

Even Tear Our Hearts in Two (Dub Ai No Senshi) was better than most of the DiC songs. And Cloverway's other two songs You'll be in my heart and Let's Fight I actually kinda like better than their Japanese counterpart. (Though I get a kick out of Sailor Senshi No Theme going MAKE-UP!)

Umino wrote:Of course Cloverway does have it's flaws. The Sailor Moon S dub was one big flaw. It had potential, and some of the episodes came out great. But overall, it was bad.

I wouldn't say bad just all over the place. Sailor Moon S had a number of problems that caused it to have low quality 1.Lisa Lumby Richards 2.Cartoon Network pressuring Cloverway and Optimum to get the season dubbed fast as possible so that they could air a new episode every day 3.Optimum having the voice director be someone who couldn't speak English. Had they just dropped Lisa Lumby and stuck to their good writer (Nathalie Gregoire I think her name was) and Cartoon Network give them time to dub the season and Optimum hired a voice director who spoke English I think the S dub would have turned out fairly good.

Umino wrote:Making Uranus and Neptune cousins is excusable. Why they couldn't have just tone down their romance to "friendship" is beyond me.

Why the fact that it was very obvious they were in love and by calling them cousins only made it incest making it worse is beyond me. Haruka and Michiru's relationship wasn't that explicit in the original Sailor Moon S you just kinda knew they were lovers. Optimum/Cloverway should have left the relationship as it was from what I heard their is no rule against Gay relationships on television most shows just stray away from it in fear of religious groups

Umino wrote:Zirconia's sex change was stupid, and I think was only done so they could justify giving her a Yoda voice.

It was really stupid to gave Zirconia a sex change for two reasons 1.It ruined the whole Zirconia is an older reflection of Nehelania and 2. Close up shots you could see Zirconia had lipstick on

Umino wrote: Fisheye's sexchange was also stupid, atleast in regards to the uncut dub. Fisheye being a girl in the edited version is fine. The uncut version is a different story. It's dumb seeing a shirtless, masculine Fisheye being referred to as a "she", or "psycho woman". Optimum should've had a few lines redubbed to fix this.

It's actually quite funny watching the uncut dub and see Fisheye take his shirt off to reveal a male chest and still be referred to as female.

Umino wrote: On a side note, I'm sick of people claiming that DIC wasn't inconsistant. While not as bad as CWI, they were pretty inconsistant with attacks. Remeber how "Supreme Thunder" literally changed every episode? Or how "Moon Crystal Power" became "Moon Star Power" during the Blackmoon arc? Or how about "Moon Scepter Elimination" becoming "Moon Scepter Activation", and then "Moon Princess Elminiation"?

Well Moon Princess Elimination is from the Sailor Moon R movie dub which Dic had nothing to do with but I do agree with you.

Umino wrote:And finally, Terri Hawkes sucks. I don't understand how anyone could stand her. Her voice is too valleygirl, and she has a bad habit of changing the volume of her voice for no reason. Linda Ballentyne had a rough start, but was pretty decent in SuperS. She actually played Serena as a funny, cute character. Plus she was really good at serious scenes. Terri on the other hand, wasn't. She ruined every scene with Princess Serenity with her fake British "princess" accent. Of course, Tracey Moore will always be the best "Serena".

I agree with you here too. Tracey Moore was the best Serena by far. Too bad Optimum decided to replace her with Terri Hawkes (One of many retarded mistakes Optimum made) Linda was by no means great but she was a hell of a lot better than Terri. Linda was able to get both the goofy side and serious emotional side of Usagi. Terri Hawkes Serena could only do valley girl and a valley girl trying to sound serious. It confounds me when people complain about Linda's voice and act like Terri's Serena was the definitive Serena voice.

Umino · Post by **Umino** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:32 am

HighC wrote: Well Moon Princess Elimination is from the Sailor Moon R movie dub which Dic had nothing to do with but I do agree with you.

Weren't the dubs done by DIC with Pioneer? I think most of the staff is the same. I'm not completely sure though. The movie dubs were absolutely horrible. Worse than DIC. If anything, for the voice acting alone. You suck John Stocker.

Also, I'm sorry but I missed your earlier post showing the inconsistances with DIC. In addition, I remeber the Black Crystal switching from "The Dark Crystal" to "Black Crystal" atleast once.

With the exception of My Only Love and The Power of Love (really only the melody, I hate the lyrics) -- I hated DIC's songs. I don't get how people prefer "Carry On" to "Moonlight Densetsu". Moonlight Densetsu seemed to work in a symbolic sense. Carry On was basically a cheesy narration of the scene.

"THAT EVIL QUEEN WE MUST DEFEAT! MY FRIENDS ARE NEAR!"

The CWI dubbed songs kinda had this problem (mainly Aino Senshi) but not *as* bad. I also want to add that I give Cloverway ALOT of credit for dubbing the songs. Most international dubs just remove the vocal songs, or replace them with different music. I think only the German dub translated (most of) the vocal songs. Infact, I don't think any other dub kept Aino Senshi in episode 102.

I remeber the Star Crystal/Dark Crystal confusing the HELL out of me. For awhile I didn't know if Zoicite was using Nephrite's crystal or not. I don't remeber it being fully explained in the dub.

HighC · Post by **HighC** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:40 am

Umino wrote:
HighC wrote: Well Moon Princess Elimination is from the Sailor Moon R movie dub which Dic had nothing to do with but I do agree with you.
Weren't the dubs done by DIC with Pioneer? I think most of the staff is the same. I'm not completely sure though. The movie dubs were absolutely horrible. Worse than DIC. If anything, for the voice acting alone. You suck John Stocker.

Well Optimum worked on all Sailor Moon dub projects. And the dub writer for the movies was Lisa lUmby Richards who was one of the four writers for the Dic dub for the first 65 episodes then for the last 17 episodes of R she was the solo writer. For the S dub she was joined by another writer who was most likely the good writer who actually bothered to translate.

Umino wrote:With the exception of My Only Love and The Power of Love (really only the melody, I hate the lyrics) -- I hated DIC's songs. I don't get how people prefer "Carry On" to "Moonlight Densetsu". Moonlight Densetsu seemed to work in a symbolic sense. Carry On was basically a cheesy narration of the scene.

I like Carry On (cheesy as it is) but I perfered Moonlight Densetsu because like you said it felt symbolic and I thought it was a nice touch to have the show's opening play for the final battle. Though still for the dub I would rather have Carry On then She is the one name Sailor Moon.

Umino wrote:I remeber the Star Crystal/Dark Crystal confusing the HELL out of me. For awhile I didn't know if Zoicite was using Nephrite's crystal or not. I don't remeber it being fully explained in the dub.

Yeah the Dic dub dub lost me all the time.

Aya Reiko · Post by **Aya Reiko** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:19 am

Sauce: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... llyRadical

To be fair to DiC, the company that the voice actors worked for, Optimum, was responsible for most of the slang, as part of their marketing was based on the fact that they would add correct slang and cultural references. (DiC could arguably have sued them for false advertising.) It's also why the practice continued with Cloverway, as they used the same studio, though most of the bad episodes during Cloverway's reign were due to their writers trying to keep in line with DiC's version.

Umino · Post by **Umino** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:09 am

So then, if Optimum wasn't involed at all... the Cloverway dub would've been near perfect?

HighC · Post by **HighC** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:41 pm

Umino wrote:So then, if Optimum wasn't involed at all... the Cloverway dub would've been near perfect?

I think it depends. Most of the inconsitentices was probably Optimum's fault since they hired a voice director that didn't speak English which is probably why some lines were poorly delivered and why the show was so inconsitent the VA's only had one shot at every line and if they just happened to slip up it would still wind up on ADR track for the episode. (I'm not 100 percent sure on that last part but it seems that way) and the cousin thing was Optimum's idea but I doubt Cloverway would have kept the relationship as it was either.

Umino · Post by **Umino** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:04 pm

Yeah, but would they have gone so far as "cousins"? Their relationship has been modified in almost ever international dub. Never so drastically though. The Italian dub for example, just said they were "like sisters".

Now that I think about it, the slang in the CWI dub didn't bother me too much. Maybe it's because I use alot of slang. Shoot, my sister still says things like "he's fine". It seems to fit with the girls. I mean, they're TEENAGERS. But there are some instances was it's just bad. Serena and the girls using slang is okay, Rini using it is AWFUL. She's eight, she shouldn't say things like "They're trippin" or "he's so fine!".

Then you have episodes like "Second Chance", and "Kickin' into High Gear". Seriously, how can you take a line like "We can't have you talkin' trash about our moon princes!" seriously? There's a limit for everything.