Outer Senshi Relapse?

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:07 am

There's one thing that really bugs me about the SailorStars anime. In the Nehelenia Arc, the Outers and Inners worked together and put aside their differences. The Outers seemed to learn how to use teamwork and respect those with different methods from theirs. But when the main story starts, they're back to their old "Stay away from them, Sailor Moon. You're a weakling so we'll protect but not respect you, and we have our own way of fighting" business.
1) I actually like cold aloofness in a character (like Taiki and Yaten) but it doesn't make sense here to show them as learning teamwork in that one part, but then when Galaxia comes it's like the S season all over again!
2) The Starlights aren't even as possibly dangerous as Hotaru, who DID have Mistress 9 inside of her. They never once attacked the other Senshi unless provoked, and that was only twice. They fight the Animamates too. So why can't the Outers listen to Usagi? It's not like they haven't been proved wrong by her twice already, once at the end of the S season and another time with Nehelenia!

This is why I don't have much respect for the 3 elder Outers.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:30 am

Maybe Haruka and Michiru don't want to be outdone by transsexuals.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:50 am

Outdone by transsexuals?! In what way? And the only time any of the Outers were JEALOUS of the Starlights was when Seiya was flirting with Michiru and Haruka got angry.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:55 am

It was a joke. I was suggesting that Haruka and Michiru wanted their relationship to be the center of controversy.

I don't think the outers revert to their S mentalities after Nehelenia is healed. They have a very different purpose in Stars, and that's to protect the princess. Now, if some freaky dominatrixes with inhumanly large foreheads and horrible haircuts just started hanging out with Usagi, at the same time that new enemies had been invading (who also happen to be Sailor Senshi)... well they'd be pretty bad outer senshi if they just allowed that.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:38 am

1) I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was a joke. I have a hard time telling if someone is serious or not.
2) Taiki's the only Starlight with a big forehead...and she's not the one accused of being with Usagi too much.
3) But the Starlights are clearly not evil...they fight the Animamates and phages. Seiya may annoy me, but I don't think she's evil.
4) They are no more dominatrixes than the Earth Senshi are cheerleaders (which is what I think their fuku looks like).
5) I'm not just referring to the way they handled the Starlights. I'm referring to their utter lack of teamwork with the Inners. They treat Usagi like a baby, and SailorStars is often noted as the season where Usagi is maturing. I would think that after Usagi's compassion saved their butts from Nehelenia's mirrors they would be a little more respectful of her choice to befriend (note, Seiya, not LOVE) the Starlights.

Personally, I think all the Earth Senshi should've held a meeting together and voted (or at least discussed civilly) what to do about the Starlights.

Post by **Tiff** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:27 pm

o_O;
Okay, in your first post, Rainbow..

"Stay away from them, Sailor Moon. You're a weakling so we'll protect but not respect you, and we have our own way of fighting" business.

After Neptune and Uranus fight her at the end of S, and get their asses kicked, they HIGHLY respect her. They no longer think she's a weakling (not that they ever did, actually...they thought that her methods wouldn't work, and that she couldn't sacrifice people..which is true.) I think you confused them having their own way with thinking Sailor Moon's a twit. They protect her TO PROTECT THEIR PRINCESS, not to alienate her.
And:

Now, if some freaky dominatrixes with inhumanly large foreheads and horrible haircuts just started hanging out with Usagi, at the same time that new enemies had been invading (who also happen to be Sailor Senshi)... well they'd be pretty bad outer senshi if they just allowed that.

I'm in complete agreement. The outers aren't openly trusting people. Their sole purpose is TO PROTECT. They aren't going to just go "HEY! You're sailor senshi! Let's work together!", becuase their personas are different than Sailor Moon's. They make an excellent point when they say "Galaxia and the Animamates are senshi, too." They didn't know WHO to trust.

And if you'll remember correctly, the inner senshi weren't too thrilled about getting together with the starlights, either. In a few episodes, they stand around arguing with the starlights about who should take care of the enemy. Sailor Moon is the only one who's keen on the idea of all of them coming together.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:53 pm

Okay, whatever. I guess if they DID start being more accepting of Usagi's ideas, I probably would've gotten angry at them being perfect. Them being distrustful of the Starlights is what makes them imperfect. I think either way, I'd get angry at them, since I have a problem with characters that have lots of fans who love them for being elegant and suave. It's my personal problem that I don't like suave characters...they make me want to shove them in the mud!

Post by **Tiff** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:46 pm

Rainbow wrote: I think either way, I'd get angry at them, since I have a problem with characters that have lots of fans who love them for being elegant and suave. It's my personal problem that I don't like suave characters...they make me want to shove them in the mud!

o_O; why? What's wrong with characters who have a lot of fans?

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:38 pm

It's not that they have a lot of fans. I like Usagi, and she's fairly popular, though not without her share of detractors. It's more that the only reason I used to absolutely hate Neptune for being perfect was because her fans called her perfect, as well as "Serena" on the dub of one of the early S episodes. Since I hate perfect characters, I think I prejudged her. And she does have an aura of perfection and social suaveness that annoys me, as do the other Outers except for Saturn (who I think turns overly perfect in SailorStars, personality-wise). I just more have a thing for characters who DON'T always do the right thing socially (like Yaten on the phone, for example) because they're funnier. I just don't like the Outers much probably because I don't think they're funny, and the times I DO like them is their more humorous moments (like Haruka and Michiru's sexual innuendo jokes). To me, suave isn't funny, it's annoying.

Really, if I picked my favorites on their popularity, I wouldn't like Ami and Usagi as much as I do, since they both have a lot of fans (Ami's are just in Japan more than the USA).

LadyFlameSniper · Post by **LadyFlameSniper** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:34 am

The outers aren't perfect, and that goes for Michiru too. More serious than the others, but not perfect.

Haruka- stubborn, probably the most untrusting of the bunch, and has the "my way or the high way attitude" Especially in S

Michiru- doesn't always express her own opinions, she'll sometimes go along with Haruka even if she doesn't agree, hardly ever takes charge

Setsuna- similar to Michiru with just going along with whatever. Well at least she informed Usagi and the inners more later in S. She also seems to be the type who would keep a lot of her feelings to herself instead of sharing them.

Hotaru- She had really low self esteem in S, not surprising with her experiences and such, but that's a flaw. In Stars, I can't really comment other than I thought she would be happier to see Chibi-Usa again

I like the outers better than most of the inners because they're just cooler. They're more focused. none of them really have the happiest past either, so you know they've been through alot. I find that interesting

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:16 am

LadyFlameSniper wrote: Michiru- doesn't always express her own opinions, she'll sometimes go along with Haruka even if she doesn't disagree, hardly ever takes charge

Hotaru- She had really low self esteem in S, not surprising with her experiences and such, but that's a flaw. In Stars, I can't really comment other than I thought she would be happier to see Chibi-Usa again

And that's why I don't hate Neptune anymore, now that I've realized that I've seen her screw up at things (the deal with pretending to work for Galaxia, no matter how noble it was, it still failed because it got Galaxia four more Star Seeds and the Senshi had four dead teammates). I guess just letting them shoot her Star Seed out could be a fault of SailorStars Saturn. As for not being as happy to see Chibi-Usa-sama, well, they were in the middle of battling those mirror monsters. If Saturn and Chibi Moon took the time to, say, have a few hugs and talk, they probably would've been attacked, so neither of them was getting into being affectionate at the time. It doesn't show EVERYTHING the Senshi did, right? Maybe they had friend time later.

Starscream · Post by **Starscream** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:19 am

Recall, also, the Outer's original mission: to protect the Princess and the Sol System from threats OUTSIDE their domain. Thus the Tau System Aliens and anyone from Stars is under suspect to them. Granted, they carry the Sailor name...but so do the Animates. Despite their respect for Sailor Moon and their acknowledgment of her as a true soldier, they fear that these "invaders" might be manipulating her BECAUSE of her extreme, unwavering ability to see the good side of others.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:44 am

I know that. But I like thinking of their distrustfulness as a flaw because I'm trying to get over thinking of them as perfect, which (for the benefit of you Outers fans) makes me not as repulsed by them if they have some obvious flaws.

ParaKiss_Groupie · Post by **ParaKiss_Groupie** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:48 pm

Rainbow wrote:I know that. But I like thinking of their distrustfulness as a flaw because I'm trying to get over thinking of them as perfect, which (for the benefit of you Outers fans) makes me not as repulsed by them if they have some obvious flaws.

Not to sound like the uber-bitch that I am, but... Rainbow, the rest of us don't really care if you like the outers or not. If you don't like them, you shouldn't try to like them to please everyone else.

Anyways, on topic. I thought the Outers had plenty of reasons not to trust the Starlights. At least when the Outers appeared in S, they told the Inner Senshi that they weren't going to work together because the Inners would get in their way. The Inners know that the Outers are good guys. The Starlights (in the manga, at least) don't tell any of the Inner Senshi their mission. I wouldn't trust them either. Besides, the Starlights weren't exactly the nicest people in the world. Yaten told Michiru that her lipstick was trashy. Taiki is extremely rude to Ami. And Seiya won't stop hitting on Usagi (I am pro Usagi-Seiya, but all the same...). Hell, if I were Haruka and Michiru, then I'd have just killed the Starlights to begin with. A lot less trouble that way.

Post by **Tiff** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:59 pm

ParaKiss_Groupie wrote:
Not to sound like the uber-bitch that I am, but... Rainbow, the rest of us don't really care if you like the outers or not. If you don't like them, you shouldn't try to like them to please everyone else.

Anyways, on topic. I thought the Outers had plenty of reasons not to trust the Starlights. At least when the Outers appeared in S, they told the Inner Senshi that they weren't going to work together because the Inners would get in their way. The Inners know that the Outers are good guys. The Starlights (in the manga, at least) don't tell any of the Inner Senshi their mission. I wouldn't trust them either. Besides, the Starlights weren't exactly the nicest people in the world. Yaten told Michiru that her lipstick was trashy. Taiki is extremely rude to Ami. And Seiya won't stop hitting on Usagi (I am pro Usagi-Seiya, but all the same...). Hell, if I were Haruka and Michiru, then I'd have just killed the Starlights to begin with. A lot less trouble that way.

I am in complete agreement with everything you just said.
I mean, come on...these three senshi just appear out of nowhere, and the outers and inners are dealing with some senshi who are bent on finding these starseeds...I'd be like "get the hell off my planet, biatch".

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 10:27 am

Now that I think about it, maybe I wouldn't have such a problem with the Outers if they were shown more. Since they only appear (mostly) in times when they NEED to seem more mature and on-top-of-things, of course they're going to seem annoyingly perfect/overly serious/too suspicious of new Senshi. I wonder if I would've had a better opinion of them if more of their everyday life was shown. As for the excuse that whenever Saturn appears, she has to die from using her attacks...I disagree. She does have non-lethal attacks (to her, not to monsters the Senshi fight of course).

Okay, maybe I am starting to think that SuperS should've had the Outers, if only from a Chibi-Moon fan's POV that then she could've had her friends Puu and Hotaru-chan with her.

I also found someone else's article that states what I was trying to originally say very well.
http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/SM/outers1.htm

Though I do admit that this, ironically, makes me dislike them a little less to think about "perfect" Michiru being overly stubborn.

Post by **Tiff** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:29 am

Rainbow wrote:Now that I think about it, maybe I wouldn't have such a problem with the Outers if they were shown more..

*Sigh* I think you look way too into why you like a character or not. We're saying we don't care. It's gotten to the point where you constantly mention how much you like or dislike a certain character. It sneaks into your posts, your jokes...now you're making topics about it. It's like you're obsessed.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:05 pm

You know, I'm not quite sure what I really think of the Outers. There's a part of my mind that gets annoyed and even angry at them, and then there's a part of my mind that somewhat likes them, and at least wants to tolerate them. It's the part of me that gets annoyed with them that says "They're wrong for being suspicious of the Starlights" and then the part that wants to accept them says to me "No, that's a loveable flaw, like the Ranma characters you like who are always fighting over their lovers." Those two sides are often battling inside me, and that's why I tend to contradict myself here on this topic. Obviously the "hate the Outers" side was speaking when I first started the topic, then the other side argued back. I'm probably obsessing because I'm trying to figure out my own feelings about them.