Plot Holes

Post by **Tiff** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:49 pm

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:Did Sailor Pluto actually say that she was going to die in the anime? I don't seem to remember hearing her actually say that her punishment was death, but I might not be remembering correctly. And maybe nodody guards the Gate of Time when Pluto is away in Sailor Moon S and Sailor Stars. After all, if the Black Moon was able to find another way around the gate to travel back in time, what would be the point of still having a guardian? When Pluto shows up in the first episode of Sailor Stars, that scene cuts off right when she says that she's there to pick Hotaru up, so perhaps Tomoe protesting against her actions is just something we don't see on-screen?

As far as I remember, she does. And even if she doesn't say exactly "i'm going to die", she STILL says it's taboo, and the other two outers realize she's going to die. They start to protest, and Sailor Pluto smiles sadly at them, and teleports them out. It's obvious she knew her punishment.

o_O; and even if Tomoe DID protest her actions..what the hell did she do to him to take Hotaru away? Why did the HOSPITAL let Pluto waltz in and snatch one of their patient's kids away? The fact that Tomoe's protesting may not have been on screen still doesn't explain anything. It still leavesa plot hole, and leaves you wondering how on earth she got Hotaru away from Tomoe.

God, my friend and I joke about this ALL the time. Setsuna just kind of shows up, tells Tomoe that she needs Hotaru...and takes her. Did he just say, "Okay! Here you go!" and hand her over? o_o; Pluto is, in my opinion, a really mysterious character...but only because they don't EXPLAIN half of what goes on with her.

LMAO really, that's how it seemed. "Hey, I need your kid." "Okay. Here."

LadyFlameSniper · Post by **LadyFlameSniper** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:36 am

Tiff wrote: As far as I remember, she does. And even if she doesn't say exactly "i'm going to die", she STILL says it's taboo, and the other two outers realize she's going to die. They start to protest, and Sailor Pluto smiles sadly at them, and teleports them out. It's obvious she knew her punishment.

o_O; and even if Tomoe DID protest her actions..what the hell did she do to him to take Hotaru away? Why did the HOSPITAL let Pluto waltz in and snatch one of their patient's kids away? The fact that Tomoe's protesting may not have been on screen still doesn't explain anything. It still leavesa plot hole, and leaves you wondering how on earth she got Hotaru away from Tomoe.

I only recall her mentioning the taboo. The part that sort of made me unsure of Pluto's death at first was in the episode where Chibi-Usa realizes that Hotaru was a baby again. Pluto appears before Chibi-Usa and tells her that she can't hug her because her body no longer exists in this world. I thought that could also mean that she just couldn't leave the time-space area. But now I'm quite sure it was just Pluto not wanting Chibi-Usa to know that she was actually dead.

And when Setsuna came for Hotaru, Tomoe wasn't at the hospital. they showed a shot of a house from the outside and some petals blowing by while he was holding Hotaru. Maybe Setsuna explained the whole situation to him and he believed it... That's my speculation anyway. o_O;

Post by **Tiff** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:47 am

LadyFlameSniper wrote:
And when Setsuna came for Hotaru, Tomoe wasn't at the hospital. they showed a shot of a house from the outside and some petals blowing by while he was holding Hotaru. Maybe Setsuna explained the whole situation to him and he believed it... That's my speculation anyway. o_O;

o_O; I just watched my tape, and you're right. Why the hell did I think it was hospital grounds?

I must be thinking of the ending of S....

Either way, this STILL doesn't bode with me taht he just...let her take his kid.

Rivalee · Post by **Rivalee** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:49 am

If Sailor Pluto died in S, how come she was in the SuperS-movie? I found that kinda weird.

Post by **Tiff** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:54 am

Rivalee wrote:If Sailor Pluto died in S, how come she was in the SuperS-movie? I found that kinda weird.

-_- sweetie, that's the plot hole we're pointing out. She's in Stars, too. But yet, she was supposed to die in S. So we're not sure why she didn't die.

peachvampiress · Post by **peachvampiress** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:59 am

Maybe Galaxia brought her back to life some how so that Pluto could awaken Saturn, thus awakening all the Star Seeds...or something. Or Neo-Queen Serenity brought her back to life like in the manga when she died from stopping time.

As for Pluto taking baby Hotaru, I have no clue. Maybe she used the Setsuna mind-meld on Tomoe.

Post by **Tiff** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:02 am

peachvampiress wrote:
As for Pluto taking baby Hotaru, I have no clue. Maybe she used the Setsuna mind-meld on Tomoe.

Please don't make me kill you.

Vesta · Post by **Vesta** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:36 am

Another thing I found odd about Pluto returning is Uranus and Neptune's reactions when the see her again in Stars. Why on earth are they so surprised if she was with them in SuperS movie?

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:54 am

I've always seen the movies as not being part of the regular Sailor Moon continiuity, just like how on The Simpsons the Halloween episodes are also kind of an "alternate universe." That's how Sailor Pluto can appear in the SuperS movie, as well as the reason Saturn (or even just Hotaru) isn't in the S movie. The R movie is hard to place, too, since the Black Moon family is nowhere to be seen yet Chibi-Usa hasn't gone home yet. They are just kind of "what-if" stories that are in slightly different Sailor Moon universes than the regular one of the anime.

Post by **Tiff** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:35 am

But the fact remains, Rainbow, that they ARE in the timeline. I forget exactly where, but I do believe they are meant to be in the actual series timeline.

Umino · Post by **Umino** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:02 pm

Tiff wrote:But the fact remains, Rainbow, that they ARE in the timeline. I forget exactly where, but I do believe they are meant to be in the actual series timeline.

The R and S movies, yes, but SuperS don'st seem to fall at all. In Stars, if I remember correctly, Michiru and Haruka were shocked to see Pluto. Yet, the SuperS movie, it makes it seem like Pluto's been with them (like living together, like the manga)

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:14 pm

Maybe Sailor Moon doesn't really have a linear timeline. Considering all the time-travel that Chibi-Usa does, possibly she messed up the continuity of things somewhere so that things (in some version of the timeline) happened so the movies could occur. It is interesting that she's in all of them!

I'm somewhat kidding with that, but there are still a lot of things that are vague with the anime's timeline in general, as much as I prefer it to the manga.

WarriorPlutoII · Post by **WarriorPlutoII** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:37 pm

that is a distinct possibility and makes sense for the most part

LadyFlameSniper · Post by **LadyFlameSniper** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:28 pm

Like Rainbow, I always believed the movies were in an alternate universe of sorts. I don't see where they'd fit during the seasons' timelines..

If the movies took place during the actual seasons, then what happened to all of the enemies they had been fighting? You don't see or hear about them at all. I don't think they were in between seasons either because some things wouldn't make sense.. Such as the R movie being in between R and S. Chibi-Usa went home at the end of R.

Or the S movie falling in between S and SuperS. Pluto is supposed to be dead by the end of S, and Moon no longer has the Holy grail. Not to mention, throughout the S anime the outers and inners weren't working together so closely. As for SuperS, besides Pluto being alive, Chibi Moon has a Moon Kaleidoscope in the SuperS movie. She doesn't get one in the anime.

Post by **Tiff** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:45 pm

LadyFlameSniper wrote:Like Rainbow, I always believed the movies were in an alternate universe of sorts. I don't see where they'd fit during the seasons' timelines..

If the movies took place during the actual seasons, then what happened to all of the enemies they had been fighting? You don't see or hear about them at all. I don't think they were in between seasons either because some things wouldn't make sense.. Such as the R movie being in between R and S. Chibi-Usa went home at the end of R.

Or the S movie falling in between S and SuperS. Pluto is supposed to be dead by the end of S, and Moon no longer has the Holy grail. Not to mention, throughout the S anime the outers and inners weren't working together so closely. As for SuperS, besides Pluto being alive, Chibi Moon has a Moon Kaleidoscope in the SuperS movie. She doesn't get one in the anime.

The term "alternate universe" bothers me, becuase that implies that there is something different going on with the characters and such. Nothing was different other than the fact that they had one randomly new enemy. An alternate universe type situation would be if, say, Ami suddenly sprouted a penis and were a boy. Or if instead of marrying Mamoru, Usagi married Seiya.

And the R movie could have easily taken place in that little time frame between when the black moon was defeated and that episode where she actually goes home. Before Chibiusa went home, they had one more problem to tackle: Fiore.

We've already established that it's a plot hole about Pluto's death, becuase it never really says whether or not she died. Therefore, factoring her death in there really doesn't count, becuase we truly don't know if she really died.

I always thought they were more shocked to see pluto WITH HOTARU, rather than just Pluto alone.

They may not fall directly in the timeline, but they aren't alternate universes.

RoastedTwinkies · Post by **RoastedTwinkies** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:50 pm

Another thing I wanted to add is that Phobos and Deimos appeared throughout the manga. I was disappointed that they didn't appear in the anime with Rei. We see them as crows, but we never learned their true identities.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:02 pm

I never thought about that with the R movie, that's a good point.

Cardcaptor Takato · Post by **Cardcaptor Takato** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:57 pm

Another plot hole I noticed....in the episode of Sailor Moon S where Chibi-usa is taking an art class, she's talking to her friend Masanori about the scultpure she's making. Chibi-usa said she saw the Holy Grail in her mother's room, and she always wanted to have one of her own, so she decided to make a sculpture of it. How could Neo Queen Serenity have the Holy Grail when it's shattered into pieces?

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:29 pm

Maybe the animators didn't know they were going to have the Grail be destroyed later when they made that episode.

Post by **Tiff** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:41 pm

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:Another plot hole I noticed....in the episode of Sailor Moon S where Chibi-usa is taking an art class, she's talking to her friend Masanori about the scultpure she's making. Chibi-usa said she saw the Holy Grail in her mother's room, and she always wanted to have one of her own, so she decided to make a sculpture of it. How could Neo Queen Serenity have the Holy Grail when it's shattered into pieces?

I never understood that, either...and if Chibiusa had seen the Holy Grail, you would have thought she had mentioned it to the other senshi, or known what it was when Usagi got it.

Maybe the animators didn't know they were going to have the Grail be destroyed later when they made that episode.

o_O; it's not up to the animators how the storyline goes. They didn't decide to put the grail in there. They were told to put the grail in there. So it was a mistake on the storywriters, and such.