Different DiC SM?

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:21 pm

It didn't strike me as noteworthy when it happened, but when I saw something on one of the nostalgia posts, I thought I'd make a new topic for this. (since it doesn't fit there) At AnimeCentral this year, my mom and I got to see what I think was supposed to be an early DiC commercial for the dubbed Sailor Moon that aired before the dub itself was shown for real. And there's some big differences! The premire (sp?) commercial noted these names for the Scouts, at least, that I can remember:
Mercury: Blue
And one of them was named Kari, I think. The thing that was noteworthy to me was that I had heard that there were other possible names for the characters, but I didn't know any of those ever got on TV! I bet there were some confused viewers when the dub actually started being shown.

peachvampiress · Post by **peachvampiress** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:27 pm

I think i know what clip you're talking about. Toonami digital arsenal (sp?) has it. I saved it on my computer.

My God it could have been so much worse (and am I the only one to notice that the scenes in the commercial were cut from the show?).

Cardcaptor Takato · Post by **Cardcaptor Takato** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:07 pm

Yeah, they showed a clip of Sailor Moon fighting the youma in Japanese episode five in that commercial, if I'm not mistaken. I think this was the commercial thing DiC sent to different networks to get them to buy the series or something. Some of the names they chose were really strange. Like, how they called Ami "Blue" and Makoto "Sour." What the heck kind of names are those? Raye was called "Dana" and Mina was called "Carrie" or something like that. They also called Tuxedo Kamen "The Masked Tuxedo", but that's practically the same thing as "Tuxedo Mask."

Still, I think "Tuxedo Mask" sounds better somehow. They also said in the commercial that boys will love all the "non-stop action" and girls will love Usagi's "glamorous transformation into Sailor Moon." They also claimed that Sailor Moon is bigger than both Power Rangers and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I didn't know Ninja Turtles was aired in Japan....

peachvampiress · Post by **peachvampiress** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:42 pm

and Makoto "Sour."

O__0; I'm pretty sure they said Sara.

Sailorasteroid · Post by **Sailorasteroid** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:18 pm

OK, I just watched this promo, and yeah, it did seem like Sara, and it also seemed like she had the highest voice of the five. This would have been pretty bad. Not as bad as the "Saban" trailer, but bad.

This promo sounded like it was aimed at investors or network executives, not an audience. It was a little like listening to people gossiping about you, saying things they think you'll never hear. And it's a good insight into the mentality these people have regarding the people who pay their salaries.

If I ever needed evidence that these distributors have no clue as to the actual nature of their market, it's in this line: "Girls will love Sailor Moon's transformation from everyday schoolgirl to glamorous superhero; boys will love the nonstop action." Not one mention of the interpersonal relationships, the quality of the writing, the serial nature of the plot, anything that might make people watch this show instead of any of the clones. This is what the dubbers must think of me: that I watch the show for the attacks and the fighting speeches, the very parts I'm most likely to fast-forward through.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if all you want is to market a product to the greatest number of people, get out of the TV business and sell toilet paper, because everyone uses that. Considering the attitude this promo shows, I have no compunctions or regrets about owning fansubs in violation of their license.

ParaKiss_Groupie · Post by **ParaKiss_Groupie** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:03 pm

If I ever needed evidence that these distributors have no clue as to the actual nature of their market, it's in this line: "Girls will love Sailor Moon's transformation from everyday schoolgirl to glamorous superhero; boys will love the nonstop action." Not one mention of the interpersonal relationships, the quality of the writing, the serial nature of the plot, anything that might make people watch this show instead of any of the clones. This is what the dubbers must think of me: that I watch the show for the attacks and the fighting speeches, the very parts I'm most likely to fast-forward through.

Except they weren't marketing it towards you, were they? They were marketing it towards young children, who don't care so much for actual plot, and care for action and transformation.

Also, since I'm not sure if it's been said or not since the forums restarted, but that trailer wasn't by Saban. It was by a company called Toon Makers. (For those who don't know, that was a serious problem before the forums re-crashed, because even though it was said over and over, people didn't listen. It got so bad that the mods didn't just have an off-topic stick, we had the off-topic stick and the It-wasn't-Saban stick)

Sailorasteroid · Post by **Sailorasteroid** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:33 pm

ParaKiss_Groupie wrote:Except they weren't marketing it towards you, were they? They were marketing it towards young children, who don't care so much for actual plot, and care for action and transformation.

Firstly, I think they underestimate the intelligence of young children, and create a self-fulfilling prophecy by giving them action-only and assuming that's what they want. Give them good writing and characters and they'll like that too, and what's more, they'll continue to like it as they grow up. Then they won't just buy barbie dolls, they'll buy DVDs and wall scrolls and cosplay materials.

Beyond that, It would be bad enough if they were putting out cookie-cutter shows in parallel with good shows, but anything that seems intelligent does so by accident, and is killed before a following can grow to its potential. The impression I get both from seeing the fare out there and witnessing things like this promo is that there's actual resentment against putting out intelligence and an antagonism against strong fanbases.

Also, since I'm not sure if it's been said or not since the forums restarted, but that trailer wasn't by Saban. It was by a company called Toon Makers.

I did know that, and I put the quotes on there to try to express that. The problem is if you call it the Toon Makers trailer no one knows what you're talking about. Maybe we should call it the commonly-percieved-as-Saban trailer.

ParaKiss_Groupie · Post by **ParaKiss_Groupie** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:43 pm

Sailorasteroid wrote:
ParaKiss_Groupie wrote:Except they weren't marketing it towards you, were they? They were marketing it towards young children, who don't care so much for actual plot, and care for action and transformation.
Firstly, I think they underestimate the intelligence of young children, and create a self-fulfilling prophecy by giving them action-only and assuming that's what they want. Give them good writing and characters and they'll like that too, and what's more, they'll continue to like it as they grow up. Then they won't just buy barbie dolls, they'll buy DVDs and wall scrolls and cosplay materials.

Beyond that, It would be bad enough if they were putting out cookie-cutter shows in parallel with good shows, but anything that seems intelligent does so by accident, and is killed before a following can grow to its potential. The impression I get both from seeing the fare out there and witnessing things like this promo is that there's actual resentment against putting out intelligence and an antagonism against strong fanbases.

See, I don't think so. I've worked around children before, and while there are a few who are as you described, most are not. Kids get bored easily, and need something to keep them going.

Also, you have to realize that no company cares about upsetting older fans. DiC doesn't worry about catering to older audiences. DiC cares about the five-year-olds who like to scream "BUY ME THIS" in the middle of the store. It's money they want, not admiration.

Sailorasteroid · Post by **Sailorasteroid** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:58 pm

ParaKiss_Groupie wrote:Also, you have to realize that no company cares about upsetting older fans. DiC doesn't worry about catering to older audiences. DiC cares about the five-year-olds who like to scream "BUY ME THIS" in the middle of the store. It's money they want, not admiration.

I do realize this. I just think it's deplorable. As I said, if it's money they want, go market something everyone will buy, and that doesn't require creative intelligence to produce. And if they don't care about me, then I don't care about them, and I'm going to lambaste them and get SM from elsewhere whenever I can.

ParaKiss_Groupie · Post by **ParaKiss_Groupie** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:13 pm

Sailorasteroid wrote:
ParaKiss_Groupie wrote:Also, you have to realize that no company cares about upsetting older fans. DiC doesn't worry about catering to older audiences. DiC cares about the five-year-olds who like to scream "BUY ME THIS" in the middle of the store. It's money they want, not admiration.
I do realize this. I just think it's deplorable. As I said, if it's money they want, go market something everyone will buy, and that doesn't require creative intelligence to produce. And if they don't care about me, then I don't care about them, and I'm going to lambaste them and get SM from elsewhere whenever I can.

Then why say that they don't understand their target audience? And since when has this been about where you get your Sailor Moon from? No one said to buy it from DiC. You're starting a debate over something that was never an issue.

Post by **Tiff** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:22 am

Guys, you're borderline "chat room". Let someone else post.

Like me.

Sailor Asteroid:

I'm with Parakisu on the kids part. Yes, a lot of kids wouldn't enjoy what DiC was offering...but on the other hand, a lot WOULD. I work with 4-5 year olds, and a lot of them are just as Parakiss said: They get bored very easily, and all they want (especially the girls, which is who this is mainly targeted to) is something shiny with flashing lights, pretty magical girls, and someone to save the day with their superpowers. Little girls LIKE to just buy barbie dolls. Honestly, I think your knowledge of what children want is pretty deplorable. You try to make them out to be miniature adults, and they AREN'T. They really do have a lower sense of intelligence, and have no room for abstract thinking until a certain age.

And if nobody knows what you're talking about by "Toon Makers", they can either look it up, or ASK.

peachvampiress · Post by **peachvampiress** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:28 am

Did anyone else notice the irony in the line "Non stop action"? DiC cut out violence and what not (hell, a lot of the cut scenes from episode 46 were in that promo). I don't get that, you make it seem like their's a lot battling and fighting, yet they cut most of it out 0__o;. Apparently it must be okay to show someone throwing a punch, but not it hitting someone.

And Blue??? "Hello, my name's Blue and this is my friend Pink. What's you're favorite colour, mine's Ami."

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:32 am

You know what Blue just made me think of? Venus 5, which I've only heard of but I looked on a website and it said that the characters were named Venus Pink, Venus Blue (the nerdy Mercury equivalent), etc. I know the two are only related in that they're based off of the original BSSM, but I just thought it was eeriely interesting.

Sailorasteroid · Post by **Sailorasteroid** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:13 am

Tiff wrote:Guys, you're borderline "chat room". Let someone else post.

Yeah, I was getting afraid of that.

Sailor Asteroid:

I'm with Parakisu on the kids part. Yes, a lot of kids wouldn't enjoy what DiC was offering...but on the other hand, a lot WOULD. I work with 4-5 year olds, and a lot of them are just as Parakiss said: They get bored very easily, and all they want (especially the girls, which is who this is mainly targeted to) is something shiny with flashing lights, pretty magical girls, and someone to save the day with their superpowers. Little girls LIKE to just buy barbie dolls. Honestly, I think your knowledge of what children want is pretty deplorable. You try to make them out to be miniature adults, and they AREN'T. They really do have a lower sense of intelligence, and have no room for abstract thinking until a certain age.

Some are like that, and some aren't, but some will be influenced by what they see and experience. If you keep giving them pabulum, they'll stay bored little kids, and if you give them intelligence, they'll start to understand. And I think we have a responsibility to those kids to let them reach their potential. Isn't it just as wrong to treat a miniature adult like a child as the other way around?

One of the premises of the promo was that Sailor Moon should be shown in the US because in foreign markets it doubled up Sentai Ranger. Why? Because it had more flash and FX? Or because it had somthing in the storyline to keep people hooked?

So here's what I'm trying to say:
-Parts of the audience want quality; parts want filler.
-Part A should be the primary focus of content makers, just on general principles, and part B an afterthought.
-If they must make filler, don't do it by taking quality and draining it of what makes it good. That's sacrilige.
-In any case, they shouldn't expect people to respect the peddlers of watered-down shows as they do the producers of good ones.

ParaKiss_Groupie · Post by **ParaKiss_Groupie** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:44 am

Some are like that, and some aren't, but some will be influenced by what they see and experience. If you keep giving them pabulum, they'll stay bored little kids, and if you give them intelligence, they'll start to understand. And I think we have a responsibility to those kids to let them reach their potential. Isn't it just as wrong to treat a miniature adult like a child as the other way around?

Never in my life have I disagreed more with something. These are five-year-old children. We shouldn't spoon-feed maturity to them. That happens as children grow older. When they're young, they should be able to just have fun. And who says we aren't giving them intelligence? Look at pre-k and kindergarden. Teaching kids while keeping them entertained. Oh, and that point about the miniature adult? That doesn't make any sense. What in the hell is a miniature adult? A short person? Or, do you mean a young adult? If so, then you treat a young adult as you would a young adult (which is as an adult with no experience).

I'm going to be blunt on this: Sailorasteroid, don't ever try to work with kids. You have your own little idea of what children are and want, and it seems clear that nothing, not even fact, will change that. You want to eliminate childhood, rather than foster it and let maturity develop on its own. Don't have kids, don't try to work with them. You really know nothing at all about them.

In any case, they shouldn't expect people to respect the peddlers of watered-down shows as they do the producers of good ones.

I'm going to try this again. They don't want your respect. They don't give a rat's ass who respects them. They want money. That's it. You keep throwing around that you don't respect them, and it's completely irrelevant. They don't care.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am

What I find odd is that while they're catering to kids and trying to dumb it down for them, they didn't even make sure they had their minds set on the Scouts' names. I just keep imagining confused kids wondering why Blue is called Amy. I also wonder if then they would've called the Sailor Moon Says segments "Blue's Clues" but then they'd get sued. (j/k)

Post by **AnimeGuru0** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:28 am

Umm, this really should have been a given but.......

Can I freaking have a LINK please???????????

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:35 am

A link to the promo clip? I don't have it on my computer, I saw it at an anime convention when someone else brought it and some other things (the Toon Makers clip and the PGSM theme song) to show at a Sailor Moon panel. I'm sorry. Maybe someone else has it, though.

Cardcaptor Takato · Post by **Cardcaptor Takato** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:08 am

I thought Peachvampiress already mentioned that Toonami Digital Arsenal has it for download? If you don't know the url for that site, it's www.toonamiarsenal.com.

Post by **Tiff** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:38 pm

ParaKiss_Groupie wrote: Never in my life have I disagreed more with something. These are five-year-old children. We shouldn't spoon-feed maturity to them. That happens as children grow older. When they're young, they should be able to just have fun. And who says we aren't giving them intelligence? Look at pre-k and kindergarden. Teaching kids while keeping them entertained. Oh, and that point about the miniature adult? That doesn't make any sense. What in the hell is a miniature adult? A short person? Or, do you mean a young adult? If so, then you treat a young adult as you would a young adult (which is as an adult with no experience).

I'm going to be blunt on this: Sailorasteroid, don't ever try to work with kids. You have your own little idea of what children are and want, and it seems clear that nothing, not even fact, will change that. You want to eliminate childhood, rather than foster it and let maturity develop on its own. Don't have kids, don't try to work with them. You really know nothing at all about them.

I am in complete agreement here. Children that young HAVE to be entertained while they learn. If you try to spoon-feed them maturity beyond their yaers, they will get bored, uninterested, and will simply turn to something else for their amusement; like picking on another kid, getting up and running around the room, or being distracted by their own SHOELACES. I've seen it HAPPEN every day in pre-k and kindergarten. Sometimes the teachers would experiment with lessons that went a bit beyond the childrens' intelligence, and it was too much for them. They became disinterested, gave her blank stares, and found other things to occupy their mind.

And I agree about you neve rworking with kids, Sailor Asteroid. You've BABYSAT. When one babysits, they don't have to teach squat. While there is tremendous responsibility with the child's SAFTEY involved, you are merely there to watch the kid and make sure he/she stays out of trouble, eats their dinner, goes potty, and gets to bed on time. You don't have to teach them math, english, science, art, and still keep them amused at the same time. Babysitting is a far cry from teaching, and they aren't even in the same damn ballpark. I really, really hope working with children as a career doesn't interest you. You have a lot of early childhood classes to read up on, buddy, and you need a LOT more experience with actually TEACHING children.