Animal Rights

[Iced_Cappucino]

Animals do kill other animals but for survival. When farmers kill cows and pigs e.t.c. it's for money. The majority of animals can't survive without meat as their bodies aren't used to a meat free diet whereas humans can survive without meat.

Firstly, I have nothing against people who eat meat. However, I can't understand how people can kill the animals the way they do. Chickens get boiled alive and pigs are tazered, 90% of the time they are concious when their throats are slit. This is murder plain and simple. For large countries such as the USA and UK these animals are mass produced just for slaughter. It's all for the sake of money and has nothing to do with survival.

As for fur, I am strongly anti fur. The animals are bashed to death, some even caught in traps which must be excrutiatingly painful. I also don't believe in animal testing even for medical terms. It's not that I want humans to die it's just that animals are so very different to humans. Why do we continue to test on chimps? Hundereds have been tested on yet no cure for AIDS found so why don't the scientists give up? In my RE class we had a debate on animal testing and it turns out around 60-80% of the medicines produced from animal testing are thrown away because they are useless to humans.

I have also seen pictures of animals who are tested on. They look terrified and confused. How can their suffering be justified when the majority of so called 'cures' are useless to us? Humans think they are so intelligent with all their technology, but it's because of humans that the world is going to pot. Animals don't start wars and create huge weapons, they are the smarter species IMO.

[Tiff]

Animals do kill other animals but for survival. When farmers kill cows and pigs e.t.c. it's for money. The majority of animals can't survive without meat as their bodies aren't used to a meat free diet whereas humans can survive without meat.

Are you suggesting every person receive their protein from beans and only beans?

Firstly, I have nothing against people who eat meat. However, I can't understand how people can kill the animals the way they do. Chickens get boiled alive and pigs are tazered, 90% of the time they are concious when their throats are slit. This is murder plain and simple. For large countries such as the USA and UK these animals are mass produced just for slaughter. It's all for the sake of money and has nothing to do with survival.

Chickens and pigs are animals bred for their meat, plain and simple. Chickens aren't like lions wandering out in the African Savannah, with their own habitat and shit. How many random chickens do you see flying about your local park, perching on swingsets and telephone lines? There are certain animals bred for food, and quite frankly, with an animal as stupid and useless (other than for food) as a chicken, I don't feel that much sympathy for the way it's killed.

Where is your source on the pig tazering? The only thing I could find was something that PETA (who I don't trust as reliable source to begin with, so please don't tell me that's your source) posted about the military testing their tazers on pigs. Well, if said pigs were going to be slaughtered for food anyway, then...better they test on them than on people, I say.

Why do we continue to test on chimps? Hundereds have been tested on yet no cure for AIDS found so why don't the scientists give up? In my RE class we had a debate on animal testing and it turns out around 60-80% of the medicines produced from animal testing are thrown away because they are useless to humans.

Would you rather the medical and scientific community rally up some random people and test them? What exactly is your alternative idea for medical testing and research? Steam cell research is great, but sometimes certain things need to be tested on live organisms.

You suggest we just...give up on all medical research? Wow. I'd love to be able to tell a cancer patient or an AIDs patient that we're just going to give up on trying to cure them because the poor widdle animals have had enough? Coincidentally, lab animals tend to be also bred in captivity, according to what i've researched. Look it up sometime...primates used for research are generally bred in captivity for that very purpose. So again..it isn't like we have people with semi-automatics bursting into the jungle and collecting random species of wildlife.

I hope you keep that in mind if you ever come down with something fatal...I'm willing to bet if the treatment offered to you was previously tested on animals, you won't turn it down. If you do, then..that's your personal choice. But I personally would rather stay alive than turn down treatment becuase a chimp or a rat bred in captivity died from its use.

Animals don't start wars and create huge weapons, they are the smarter species IMO.

Animals don't posess the proper levels of intelligence needed to create weapons and technology, so that's really a poor analogy and frankly, one I'm sick of seeing being used by people.

[Iced_Cappucino]

Animals do kill other animals but for survival. When farmers kill cows and pigs e.t.c. it's for money. The majority of animals can't survive without meat as their bodies aren't used to a meat free diet whereas humans can survive without meat.

Are you suggesting every person receive their protein from beans and only beans?

Firstly, I have nothing against people who eat meat. However, I can't understand how people can kill the animals the way they do. Chickens get boiled alive and pigs are tazered, 90% of the time they are concious when their throats are slit. This is murder plain and simple. For large countries such as the USA and UK these animals are mass produced just for slaughter. It's all for the sake of money and has nothing to do with survival.

Chickens and pigs are animals bred for their meat, plain and simple. Chickens aren't like lions wandering out in the African Savannah, with their own habitat and shit. How many random chickens do you see flying about your local park, perching on swingsets and telephone lines? There are certain animals bred for food, and quite frankly, with an animal as stupid and useless (other than for food) as a chicken, I don't feel that much sympathy for the way it's killed.

Where is your source on the pig tazering? The only thing I could find was something that PETA (who I don't trust as reliable source to begin with, so please don't tell me that's your source) posted about the military testing their tazers on pigs. Well, if said pigs were going to be slaughtered for food anyway, then...better they test on them than on people, I say.

Why do we continue to test on chimps? Hundereds have been tested on yet no cure for AIDS found so why don't the scientists give up? In my RE class we had a debate on animal testing and it turns out around 60-80% of the medicines produced from animal testing are thrown away because they are useless to humans.

Would you rather the medical and scientific community rally up some random people and test them? What exactly is your alternative idea for medical testing and research? Steam cell research is great, but sometimes certain things need to be tested on live organisms.

You suggest we just...give up on all medical research? Wow. I'd love to be able to tell a cancer patient or an AIDs patient that we're just going to give up on trying to cure them because the poor widdle animals have had enough? Coincidentally, lab animals tend to be also bred in captivity, according to what i've researched. Look it up sometime...primates used for research are generally bred in captivity for that very purpose. So again..it isn't like we have people with semi-automatics bursting into the jungle and collecting random species of wildlife.

I hope you keep that in mind if you ever come down with something fatal...I'm willing to bet if the treatment offered to you was previously tested on animals, you won't turn it down. If you do, then..that's your personal choice. But I personally would rather stay alive than turn down treatment becuase a chimp or a rat bred in captivity died from its use.

Animals don't start wars and create huge weapons, they are the smarter species IMO.

Animals don't posess the proper levels of intelligence needed to create weapons and technology, so that's really a poor analogy and frankly, one I'm sick of seeing being used by people.

I never said I wanted scientists to stop looking for cures I just think, being scientists, they are smart enough to know how to test on animals giving them as little pain as possible. And i got my info on the tazering of pigs from a booklet I got online from youth4animals (not PETA) they go undercover and stuff. I just think these animals should at least be killed in a civilized manner I mean saying chickens are stupid and useless could easily be compared to a mentally ill child who can't take care of themselves, it's not right to kill the child so the chicken should have at least a little sympathy considering it can feel pain.

[Jamesares]

I consider myself an omnivore

I enjoy a good steak, chicken breast, pork chops, and many other meat products; however I also respect the rights of those who choose not to partake of these products. I also expect other to respect my chooses, and not to preach to me the "evils" of my ways.

As for animal test on animal as it relates to luxury item, I can't understand why anyone would think this was a good item? As for medical research I'm not going to cry over a few rats if it help save millions lives of those suffering from dieases like cancer and AIDS.

As for PETA they took a good idea and went way to far with it.

[Tiff]

I never said I wanted scientists to stop looking for cures I just think, being scientists, they are smart enough to know how to test on animals giving them as little pain as possible. And i got my info on the tazering of pigs from a booklet I got online from youth4animals (not PETA) they go undercover and stuff. I just think these animals should at least be killed in a civilized manner I mean saying chickens are stupid and useless could easily be compared to a mentally ill child who can't take care of themselves, it's not right to kill the child so the chicken should have at least a little sympathy considering it can feel pain.

Actually, you said, and I quote:

"Why do we continue to test on chimps? Hundereds have been tested on yet no cure for AIDS found so why don't the scientists give up? "

Which basically means you think they should stop, does it not? Do you expect scientists and medical researchers to just throw up their hands and go "Well, we didn't find a cure for AIDs with the drug we tested on this chimp, so to hell with it." Things like that don't happen overnight.

The difference between a handicapped child and a chicken is that chickens are basically born with little to no intelligence whatsoever, and serve little to no purpose/use other than for food, whether it be to predators/other animals or to people. People, on the other hand, are not. A handicapped child, at one point or another, whether it be in utero or before said handicap occured, has/had the potential for intelligence, logical reasoning, and emotion. Chickens don't show emotion. Chickens don't ever have the potential to contribute to society as anything but food. Even some of the most mentally retarded children can grow up to be adults who, in some way or another, can develop relationships, contribute to society, and live a relatively happy and fulfilling life for their standards. A chicken knows little more than to peck the ground, fight eachother, and lay eggs. Again, that's another poor analogy.

And do you honestly think animals in the wild only fight/kill eachother for food? Plenty of animals torture their prey. Animals fight eachother to gain social status in their herd/pride/etc. Some mothers inexplicably eat their young just after they're born. And why is it somehow "okay" for animals to remain part of the food chain and eat one another, but it's somehow cruel and horrible for a human to do the same? We are, essentially, animals, and just becuase we may possess a higher level of intelligence doesn't mean we should be exempt from taking part in the food chain just like any other animal.

[wink568]

I think chickens make rather good pets, actually, but that's beside the point. o.o; I just remember when I worked at the zoo there was this one chicken that I befriended. I loved the little guy. ^^ But I still have no problem eating chicken.

As far as the animals not killing each other just to eat, that's totally true. I saw this documentary on the Discovery Channel, where these baby dolphins, and harbor porpoises (which where about the same size) kept showing up beached, with really bad internal injuries. People were stumped for a while, until they saw video of adult dolphins ganging up on, and killing babies or even the porpoises. It turns out it's a rather common behavior, and biologists can't really explain it. It isn't the males trying to kill competition like with lions, as they'd target the porpoises too, it had to do with the size, and some people are guessing it's some sort of play behavior.

As for meat. I eat it, I have nothing against it, but a lot of times I prefer vegetarian meals. It's really weird, I'm just so picky about how I eat meat. People don't get it, and sometimes I wonder if it'd be easier to just say I'm vegetarian.

I own chinchillas, so I wouldn't be able to wear fur without thinking about their fuzzy little faces, and the fact that it takes 100 chinchillas to make a coat. However, I also know that if it weren't for the fur industry, my chinchillas would not have a high quality feed to keep them healthy, there wouldn't be much knowledge as to how to treat them if they were sick. Almost all the knowledge of chinchillas came from the fur industry, and now they're worth more alive than dead because people love them so much. Fur farms are starting to provide pet chinchillas (though mostly it's the ones with low quality fur and they're mass provided to pet stores). FYI, my chinchillas came from pet only breeders.

As for animal rights, I think PETA is just stupid. They kill more animals than they save. Their shelters put down 90% of the animals they take in. http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ This website has a form from Virginia Department of Agriculture. I feel it is reputable, but if anybody has evidence to the contrary, I'll put my foot in my mouth.

To sum it up: Yes, I believe animals should be treated well. I love my animals, and I give them the best care I can provide. Should I be denied the right to my cat, or chinchillas? I think they're happy. My cat was rescued, though I'll admit, my chinchillas were bred for pets. Domestic dogs and cats were bred to be pets. They're dependent on people, and should we just stop breeding them because they're unhappy? Yes, lets kill of the species of all domesticated animals, considering the only solution is stop breeding them if we can't have them as pets, as we certainly can't turn them loose.

::Hops off soapbox:: ^^

[Tiff]

I think chickens make rather good pets, actually, but that's beside the point. o.o; I just remember when I worked at the zoo there was this one chicken that I befriended. I loved the little guy. ^^ But I still have no problem eating chicken.

*shrugs* any animal that can be domesticated can be considered "a good pet". Some people find tarantulas and snakes to be good pets, but that doesn't stop others from smashing the buggers when they invade their home. It's all relative. If someone wants to keep a chicken for a pet, I say go for it. I just think pretending that a chicken is somehow this advanced and highly intelligent and sensitive animal is just a little bit of a stretch.

As far as the animals not killing each other just to eat, that's totally true. I saw this documentary on the Discovery Channel, where these baby dolphins, and harbor porpoises (which where about the same size) kept showing up beached, with really bad internal injuries. People were stumped for a while, until they saw video of adult dolphins ganging up on, and killing babies or even the porpoises. It turns out it's a rather common behavior, and biologists can't really explain it. It isn't the males trying to kill competition like with lions, as they'd target the porpoises too, it had to do with the size, and some people are guessing it's some sort of play behavior.

*Nods* I read the same thing about orcas.

[AnimatedEvey12]

Has anyone else here seen the Penn and Teller BULLSHIT episode on PETA? It's really hilarious.

[Iced_Cappucino]

Actually, you said, and I quote:

"Why do we continue to test on chimps? Hundereds have been tested on yet no cure for AIDS found so why don't the scientists give up?

I meant on chimps, not other animals.

But the Dolphin killing the Porpoises was just cruel. I never knew Dolphins could or would do something like that! And I suppose I did come across strong with my beliefes without even thinking. I remember when one of my cats had kittens and she ate them. It was gross.

What about dog fighting? I think it's wrong to turn what could be domesticated loving pets into vicious killing machines.

[Tiff]

What about dog fighting? I think it's wrong to turn what could be domesticated loving pets into vicious killing machines.

Forcing ANY animal to fight and kill another is not part of any natural order and is cruel.

[Sailormars Obsessed fan]

what a lot of people dont realize about dolphins is that they are predatory animals and yes they can be very dangerous if provoked. They can attack and quite easily kill a person if the situation is right. It usually happens either during the dolphins mating period or if a person is acting really stupid towards them like I saw on this one show about it. Some guy was "playfully" luring a wild dolphin to his boats under the pretense of feeding it, but instead only slapped it on the back. After about four or five times the dolphin rammed the boat knocking the guy into the water and then attacked and killed him.

What people need to understand is no matter what the animal is or how well trained you think it might be it is still what it is, and must be respected, because you can't always predict what its going to do, especially if mistreated

[Iced_Cappucino]

What people need to understand is no matter what the animal is or how well trained you think it might be it is still what it is, and must be respected, because you can't always predict what its going to do, especially if mistreated

This is very true. Even the most domesticated and loving of pets could suddenly turn and attack you. I love my pet dog but even he has attacked me, leaving me with a nasty bite mark on my leg. Sometimes it only takes a small annoyance to set the animal off.

[AnimatedEvey12]

One time when I was 2-3 I pulled a cat's tail and it scratched me on the arm, it was a family friend's cat.

As I have mentioned before, I had an Animal Rights unit in my Peace and Justice class last year. One of the assignments we had to do is answer questions to this Vegetarian Starter Guide booklet our teacher handed us out and the last question had to do with this one quote and what we thought about it. Here it is:

"Our everyday food choices have far-reaching impacts that can't be ignored. Each time we sit down to eat, we make a choice: do we want to support kindness and mercy, or do we want to support cruelty and misery?
The animals we eat can suffer just like the dogs and cats we welcome into our homes and families. Yet, if the abuses endures by farmed animals were forced upon dogs and cats, the perpetrators would be prosecuted for cruelty to animals.
We can help make the world a better place, every time we sit down to eat. By choosing vegetarian foods, we take a stand for compassionate living."

This was from the group Compassion Over Killing (COK). So what do you all think about the quote above?

[Tiff]

"Our everyday food choices have far-reaching impacts that can't be ignored. Each time we sit down to eat, we make a choice: do we want to support kindness and mercy, or do we want to support cruelty and misery?
The animals we eat can suffer just like the dogs and cats we welcome into our homes and families. Yet, if the abuses endures by farmed animals were forced upon dogs and cats, the perpetrators would be prosecuted for cruelty to animals.
We can help make the world a better place, every time we sit down to eat. By choosing vegetarian foods, we take a stand for compassionate living."

This was from the group Compassion Over Killing (COK). So what do you all think about the quote above?

I think it's a bunch of manipulative crap whose point is to appeal to our emotions and sensitivities. And I think the more people try to tell me not to eat meat, the more it makes me want to eat it. People need to make their own choices regarding food and quit tryign to push it on everybody else. It should be enough that they feel good about their choices...they shouldn't need everybody else to follow suit in order to validate their decision.

[Jamesares]

One time when I was 2-3 I pulled a cat's tail and it scratched me on the arm, it was a family friend's cat.

As I have mentioned before, I had an Animal Rights unit in my Peace and Justice class last year. One of the assignments we had to do is answer questions to this Vegetarian Starter Guide booklet our teacher handed us out and the last question had to do with this one quote and what we thought about it. Here it is:

"Our everyday food choices have far-reaching impacts that can't be ignored. Each time we sit down to eat, we make a choice: do we want to support kindness and mercy, or do we want to support cruelty and misery?
The animals we eat can suffer just like the dogs and cats we welcome into our homes and families. Yet, if the abuses endures by farmed animals were forced upon dogs and cats, the perpetrators would be prosecuted for cruelty to animals.
We can help make the world a better place, every time we sit down to eat. By choosing vegetarian foods, we take a stand for compassionate living."

This was from the group Compassion Over Killing (COK). So what do you all think about the quote above?

It just sounds like they are just try to push their personnel agenda by trying to guilt us into thinking like them. While I don't share their opinion I'm sure there are many who do.

[Iced_Cappucino]

One time when I was 2-3 I pulled a cat's tail and it scratched me on the arm, it was a family friend's cat.

As I have mentioned before, I had an Animal Rights unit in my Peace and Justice class last year. One of the assignments we had to do is answer questions to this Vegetarian Starter Guide booklet our teacher handed us out and the last question had to do with this one quote and what we thought about it. Here it is:

"Our everyday food choices have far-reaching impacts that can't be ignored. Each time we sit down to eat, we make a choice: do we want to support kindness and mercy, or do we want to support cruelty and misery?
The animals we eat can suffer just like the dogs and cats we welcome into our homes and families. Yet, if the abuses endures by farmed animals were forced upon dogs and cats, the perpetrators would be prosecuted for cruelty to animals.
We can help make the world a better place, every time we sit down to eat. By choosing vegetarian foods, we take a stand for compassionate living."

This was from the group Compassion Over Killing (COK). So what do you all think about the quote above?

I made my own choice not to each meat and I would never try to force my beliefs on somedbody else. I think the way farm animals are killed is cruel but I don't preach about it. My mum eats fish but no other meat and I don't try to guilt her into cutting out fish. The whole quote is just trying to force people to become vegetarians.

'compassionate living' the world isn't going to stop killing farm animals just because a few people think it's cruel, even I believe that. It makes money and meat is a high demand in supermarkets. People like that should focus on educating others about causes that can make a difference. Quite frankly, becoming a vegetarian won't help farm animals unless the entire world becomes vege, and that won't happen.

[AnimatedEvey12]

I think it's a bunch of manipulative crap whose point is to appeal to our emotions and sensitivities. And I think the more people try to tell me not to eat meat, the more it makes me want to eat it. People need to make their own choices regarding food and quit tryign to push it on everybody else. It should be enough that they feel good about their choices...they shouldn't need everybody else to follow suit in order to validate their decision.

Same thing happens to me. If someone tells me not to eat meat, the more I want to eat meat. People can choose if they want to be vegetarian and if they do and feel good about it that's great.

'compassionate living' the world isn't going to stop killing farm animals just because a few people think it's cruel, even I believe that. It makes money and meat is a high demand in supermarkets. People like that should focus on educating others about causes that can make a difference. Quite frankly, becoming a vegetarian won't help farm animals unless the entire world becomes vege, and that won't happen.

Exactly. There are cultures that the people eat more meat than other cultures and some that mainly eat plant food or fish. My friend who recently became vegetarian tried to make her parents to go veg but they refused. You can't convert everyone into being a vegetarian only if they decide to.

EDIT: And as for chimps being different than humans-the genetic code of a chimp differs from humans by less than 2%. Source-HBO documentary To Love Or Kill. Watched it in school.

[NameGoesHere]

"Our everyday food choices have far-reaching impacts that can't be ignored. Each time we sit down to eat, we make a choice: do we want to support kindness and mercy, or do we want to support cruelty and misery?
The animals we eat can suffer just like the dogs and cats we welcome into our homes and families. Yet, if the abuses endures by farmed animals were forced upon dogs and cats, the perpetrators would be prosecuted for cruelty to animals.
We can help make the world a better place, every time we sit down to eat. By choosing vegetarian foods, we take a stand for compassionate living."

This was from the group Compassion Over Killing (COK). So what do you all think about the quote above?

What about the plants? Those are living, breathing things. They recoil if you pluck their leaves. They FEEL. Is it somehow more "okay" to eat those living things than it is to eat the living things that moo? Does mooing make you more deserving of compassion?

You are going to KILL something just by existing. You don't even have to eat; you kill living organisms just by moving, blinking, and breathing. Nature is life and destruction. Something dies to keep you alive, you die to keep something else alive. This magical moral weight we put on one life and not another is completely subjective, because in the end, nature doesn't have morals.

As humans, we can choose our own diets. We pick the diets that are most convenient, appetizing, or healthful based on individual standards and availability. If I decide to eat meat, then that's what I'll do. It is no one else's business to smack me with moral highroad bullshit about "killing things" because it's nothing but a bunch of poorly thought out hypocrisy.

That's what I think about that quote.

EDIT: And as for chimps being different than humans-the genetic code of a chimp differs from humans by less than 2%. Source-HBO documentary To Love Or Kill. Watched it in school.

That difference could be as much as 6% according to an article in Scientific American.

[Slrjoecool]

And I think the more people try to tell me not to eat meat, the more it makes me want to eat it.

Same thing happens to me. If someone tells me not to eat meat, the more I want to eat meat. People can choose if they want to be vegetarian and if they do and feel good about it that's great.

LMAO, all I can think about is this.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor

That's not me at all, noooo >_>;;

[AnimatedEvey12]

And I think the more people try to tell me not to eat meat, the more it makes me want to eat it.

Same thing happens to me. If someone tells me not to eat meat, the more I want to eat meat. People can choose if they want to be vegetarian and if they do and feel good about it that's great.

LMAO, all I can think about is this.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor

That's not me at all, noooo >_>;;

LMFAO! That's so true. I see that article is more recent, I'm going to see if I can find this TIME article from around the same year.