Is this an epidemic?

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Post by Iced_Cappucino » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:35 pm

I think the only reason people do things like this is because they are human.

Human's are well known for being stupid and destructive. I think that's the only reason.

Greed mainly runs us. Parents may end up with a child by accident and want to 'Dispose' of the responsibilty. They probably think that children will take up all their attention and even if they are killed, it's only a child so nobody will know.

But do you know what really annoys me about the justice system? If somebody kills their own child/Parents, they are classified as being 'Mentally ill'. What the hell? so if I went and shot my parents for no reason I'd be 'Mentally ill'.

It's just an excuse so they don't have to bother filling up the prsions with real criminals when they could just hurl petty thieves in there. I've seen many news stories about parents abusing/killing their own children and being claimed as 'Mentally ill' when they are just sick freaks.
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Post by Gamer8585 » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:47 pm

One thing that really confuses me about the "Baby Grace" story is that the father of the child really seemed to want her (I think he was in the middle of a big custody battle with the mother). The mother takes off around the country with the child only to end up assisting in the murder.

If the mother didn't want the child why didn't she just leave her with the father? It would have been better for every one involved.
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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:22 pm

I think its a selfish instinct in this case. Many women dont want to seem like they cant raise their kids. And some are spiteful. They use children to harm their former partners and its sad. Its like Gamer said it would have been a better situation to give Baby Grace to her father but instead the woman probably thought "no im going to rub salt in the wounds and use the child to hurt him.

Thats what I was thinking was the root of the GI who left her child with the boyfriend instead. The father clearly wanted to have custody of his son, and dispite what broke them up I still feel that if he wasnt a abuser to his son he over a boyfriend should have been the one watching the kid while the mother was overseas. I know im not immune to petty feelings but Id still say id trust my ex with my son over some new person any day. Id rather have faith in the male I created my child with then someone I just started dating that may or may not want to be a father in the first place.


And im with you Iced_Cappucino, said it before and I'll say it again using the "Mental Illness" card is nothing but a freaking cop out. There are too many reasources out there for people who legitimately suffer from such things for that to be a valid excuse.


I still believe one of the main factors are women who are becoming mothers too young with too many different children by different fathers.
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Post by Passions55 » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:48 pm

Tiff wrote: I remember that case. I remember my mom was horrified by it.

It's insane how a parent will put a partner/boyfriend/girlfriend over their children.
I have a question. In these kinds of situations it appears that it biological mother in the relationship that turns a blind eye or to the faults of a lousy mate and seems to commit violence's against their children for the sake of "boyfriend" than situation where the biological father does this to his children when a new woman is involved.

Maybe I'm being a little one sided but it does appear that in these horrible stories it it is usually the biological mother that harms their children than the the biological father. And since this topic was discussing the psychology of these people of what motivates them to do this, I was wondering if maybe women who lets a new man into her life is more likely to show weakness and when a new man comes into the picture than a man would if a new woman does? (or do you think the media is just more likely to report on cases where the mother kills a child than a father?)

I know that postpartum depression was mentioned as a factor as to why some moms would harm their children or help a boyfriend harm their children, but what in cases where the children are not new Born's an are in grade school age? How can postpartum depression be a cause for this behavior in this case?
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Post by Tiff » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:38 pm

Passions55 wrote:
Maybe I'm being a little one sided but it does appear that in these horrible stories it it is usually the biological mother that harms their children than the the biological father. And since this topic was discussing the psychology of these people of what motivates them to do this, I was wondering if maybe women who lets a new man into her life is more likely to show weakness and when a new man comes into the picture than a man would if a new woman does? (or do you think the media is just more likely to report on cases where the mother kills a child than a father?)
To be honest, I agree with you. Women are, in general, more emotional and more vulnerable when it comes to being alone/wanting a partner/etc. This isn't to say every woman in the world is alike, but the majority of the time, women are more prone to show weakness when it comes to emotion and love.

I know that postpartum depression was mentioned as a factor as to why some moms would harm their children or help a boyfriend harm their children, but what in cases where the children are not new Born's an are in grade school age? How can postpartum depression be a cause for this behavior in this case?
That was my argument earlier..postpartum is an okay argument for when they're babies, but by the time the child is in school, to me it's no longer postpartum depression. Regular, clinical/manic depression may be a factor at that point, or some other mental illness...or it could just be that the parent snaps for some unexplainable reason.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:14 pm

Believe me I understand mental breakdowns after James was born due to the stress of my crumbling marriage had another but in none of that time did the thought of hurting my child come into mind. Is it the same for everyone? No we humans are all different and we take different strides to life but I still maintain that the whole "Mentally Ill" Or sufferer from such is a cop out. When Im at the point where IM in distress I call the mental help line, anyone who has a phone or computer can find places even a chat room where they can talk to others that can help calm them. In this day and age where there is help for such things to use that as a excuse to why a child is murdered is sad.

And I will never get the mentality of any parent male or female that could ever turn a blind eye to the needs of their child to have "structure" or a relationship. I think it was said by NGH but to me the greatest amount of love ive ever felt has been for my son. I think my body helped create that, and while some may not feel this strong of feeling for their children I could not ever imagine destroying or letting someone else come and harm or kill my child.

And I really dont get women or men who use kids as pawns to keep lovers or spur their biological parents by allowing some abusive nut job to control and hurt their kids. And I think there should be a law that if a parent can prove their ex has put their child into such a situation that the other parent (mainly the father) can immediately sue for custody and get the child taken out of the situation. It makes me cry that a woman could be so spiteful to have their child suffer and die just because they dont want their ex to raise them. Even if its out of love at first if you know something aint right and your child has an out and you still keep them in that dangerous situation then to me that person is just as guilty of murder as the abuser.
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Post by Tiff » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:01 pm

Senshi_of_Vision wrote:Believe me I understand mental breakdowns after James was born due to the stress of my crumbling marriage had another but in none of that time did the thought of hurting my child come into mind. Is it the same for everyone? No we humans are all different and we take different strides to life but I still maintain that the whole "Mentally Ill" Or sufferer from such is a cop out. When Im at the point where IM in distress I call the mental help line, anyone who has a phone or computer can find places even a chat room where they can talk to others that can help calm them. In this day and age where there is help for such things to use that as a excuse to why a child is murdered is sad.
While I agree that mental illness IS used as a cop-out for a lot of things, there ARE times when a mental illness is so severe that the person doesn't get help and snaps, doing something harmful to themselves or others. If a person is insane, they aren't exactly going to seek help when they themselves don't believe they need any, are they? Help may be available, but how does that garuntee that people are going to ulitilize it?

Now, in no way am I JUSTIFYING harm to a child/person due to mental illness, I'm just pointing out that not all cases are alike. You have the sense to call for help because you still have that part of you active and aware. Not all people do.
And I really dont get women or men who use kids as pawns to keep lovers or spur their biological parents by allowing some abusive nut job to control and hurt their kids. And I think there should be a law that if a parent can prove their ex has put their child into such a situation that the other parent (mainly the father) can immediately sue for custody and get the child taken out of the situation. It makes me cry that a woman could be so spiteful to have their child suffer and die just because they dont want their ex to raise them. Even if its out of love at first if you know something aint right and your child has an out and you still keep them in that dangerous situation then to me that person is just as guilty of murder as the abuser.
Using kids as a pawn always disgusts me. And it is in fact horrible that some women would rather let their child suffer rather than admit she may not be the most fit parent simply because she has a grudge/bitter feeling toward her ex. Sadly, for some individuals, it's not about their children, it's all about them.

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Post by denizenofevil » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:32 pm

Tiff wrote:
Senshi_of_Vision wrote:Believe me I understand mental breakdowns after James was born due to the stress of my crumbling marriage had another but in none of that time did the thought of hurting my child come into mind. Is it the same for everyone? No we humans are all different and we take different strides to life but I still maintain that the whole "Mentally Ill" Or sufferer from such is a cop out. When Im at the point where IM in distress I call the mental help line, anyone who has a phone or computer can find places even a chat room where they can talk to others that can help calm them. In this day and age where there is help for such things to use that as a excuse to why a child is murdered is sad.
While I agree that mental illness IS used as a cop-out for a lot of things, there ARE times when a mental illness is so severe that the person doesn't get help and snaps, doing something harmful to themselves or others. If a person is insane, they aren't exactly going to seek help when they themselves don't believe they need any, are they? Help may be available, but how does that garuntee that people are going to ulitilize it?

Now, in no way am I JUSTIFYING harm to a child/person due to mental illness, I'm just pointing out that not all cases are alike. You have the sense to call for help because you still have that part of you active and aware. Not all people do.
And I really dont get women or men who use kids as pawns to keep lovers or spur their biological parents by allowing some abusive nut job to control and hurt their kids. And I think there should be a law that if a parent can prove their ex has put their child into such a situation that the other parent (mainly the father) can immediately sue for custody and get the child taken out of the situation. It makes me cry that a woman could be so spiteful to have their child suffer and die just because they dont want their ex to raise them. Even if its out of love at first if you know something aint right and your child has an out and you still keep them in that dangerous situation then to me that person is just as guilty of murder as the abuser.
Using kids as a pawn always disgusts me. And it is in fact horrible that some women would rather let their child suffer rather than admit she may not be the most fit parent simply because she has a grudge/bitter feeling toward her ex. Sadly, for some individuals, it's not about their children, it's all about them.
actually, you would be surprised to see that mental illness isn't used as an excuse. most of the time, it's legitimate. i take a social psychology class at my highschool and my teacher is also a lawyer. first off, it is hard to be considered legally mentally ill and if you were sane, you wouldn't want to be considered ill if you weren't because you would still have to serve out your sentence in a different way. i won't go into too much detail about that but most of the time, mental illness isn't a cop out. i can't remember that statistics for how many people actually get considered mentally ill but i know it was a very small number. the only reason we think it's common is because it is so highly publicized. yes, tiff is right about the mentally ill not getting help. a lot of the times, they just refuse to because they are ill or they are worried about the social stigma. they may think that nothing is wrong with them. who knows, maybe those killers may be psychopaths. because of a psychopath's nature, they will refuse to seek help.

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Post by Tiff » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:04 pm

denizenofevil wrote:
actually, you would be surprised to see that mental illness isn't used as an excuse. most of the time, it's legitimate. i take a social psychology class at my highschool and my teacher is also a lawyer. first off, it is hard to be considered legally mentally ill and if you were sane, you wouldn't want to be considered ill if you weren't because you would still have to serve out your sentence in a different way. i won't go into too much detail about that but most of the time, mental illness isn't a cop out. i can't remember that statistics for how many people actually get considered mentally ill but i know it was a very small number. the only reason we think it's common is because it is so highly publicized. yes, tiff is right about the mentally ill not getting help. a lot of the times, they just refuse to because they are ill or they are worried about the social stigma. they may think that nothing is wrong with them. who knows, maybe those killers may be psychopaths. because of a psychopath's nature, they will refuse to seek help.
*Blink* Where did I say mental illness was never legitimate? In fact, that was the argument I made to SoV. Of course there are people who have legitimate mental illnesses so severe that they cause them to do unspeakable things...that was my point. That it isn't black and white, that there are many shades of grey.

I can't really tell if you're responding to me or SoV, since you quoted both of us.

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Post by denizenofevil » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:17 pm

Tiff wrote:
denizenofevil wrote:
actually, you would be surprised to see that mental illness isn't used as an excuse. most of the time, it's legitimate. i take a social psychology class at my highschool and my teacher is also a lawyer. first off, it is hard to be considered legally mentally ill and if you were sane, you wouldn't want to be considered ill if you weren't because you would still have to serve out your sentence in a different way. i won't go into too much detail about that but most of the time, mental illness isn't a cop out. i can't remember that statistics for how many people actually get considered mentally ill but i know it was a very small number. the only reason we think it's common is because it is so highly publicized. yes, tiff is right about the mentally ill not getting help. a lot of the times, they just refuse to because they are ill or they are worried about the social stigma. they may think that nothing is wrong with them. who knows, maybe those killers may be psychopaths. because of a psychopath's nature, they will refuse to seek help.
*Blink* Where did I say mental illness was never legitimate? In fact, that was the argument I made to SoV. Of course there are people who have legitimate mental illnesses so severe that they cause them to do unspeakable things...that was my point. That it isn't black and white, that there are many shades of grey.

I can't really tell if you're responding to me or SoV, since you quoted both of us.
oh sorry. i was just responding to the part you guys said that it was used as a cop out. i was mostly speaking to SoV but since you mentioned that it was used a lot as a cop out, i kinda had to toss that out there. i wasn't saying that you said it wasn't legitimate. i was just saying that according to that information, it is rarely used as a cop out and that even if someone did want to use it, it would be a bad idea because it is hard for the courts to accept it and it is also wouldn't help with the sentence because it would still be basically the same sentence sane or not.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:09 am

I call it a cop out and damaging to people who have it. Granted there are a ton of people with legitimate mental illnesses who do not seek help hell 4 years ago I did not want to believe I had anything wrong with me nearly died finding out how wrong I am. And I dont want to seem as if im saying people who have legitimate problems cannot do this. I guess it aggrivates me t hat people who dont suffer from such afflictions will harm or kill a child and automatically having a mental illness is thrown up as an excuse.

I look at it this way you have your child you want to do the best for him/her, your all happy holding your baby till the nurse who has read your extensive chart sees youve been put away a few times for disorders. Then you get questioned about violent thoughts, you have constant social workers who check up on you and thats the first year of your life if your a mother who is proven to have emotional disorders and have been put away as such. So I do get touchy about this subject but only because in my case not only hours after I had my son was my parent hood put into question because of something that is clearly out of my control. Trust me I long for a magical button you can push to be "sane."

So when a mother murders her kid or a father or a parent lets another stranger they love hurt or kill their kids it truly grinds me to hear that that abuser murder could be considered in the same league. And youd be suprized how some still think well a mentally ill person is more capable of harming their kids, when in alot of these cases the only thing wrong with the female was that she decided loving some man was more important. About the only mother I could sympathize with was Mrs Yates who was blantantly ignored in her cries for help instead of getting her help it was "have more babies." But for Susan smith and women like her who dare use the reasoning "if my kid(s) are gone he will stay to have their sanity linked with those who have emotional illnesses (not psychotic tendancies because I dont know enough about that kinda state) bothers me.
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Post by wink568 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:55 am

It does make me sick. I think it truly is selfishness that causes it. I won't say that it's necessarily mental illness, but something has to be "off" in the head of the parent doing such a terrible thing.

I don't have children yet, but I already feel an overpowering love for my future children. I know that sounds weird, and it's hard to explain, but if these feelings are so strong, I can only imagine it'd be more powerful when a woman actually has children. If that is the case for most women, then the others that would kill their children just can't be right in the head.

Also, since a lot of it does seem to appear in a situation where the mother has a new boyfriend and she essentially chooses the boyfriend over the children. I know falling in love causes all sorts of chemical reactions, so to speak. Maybe these women's minds process it differently, and so there feelings are stronger, so they're more apt to do anything to keep this potential mate. I'm not justifying their behavior, nor am I saying that these women feel such a strong love for there partner. I think it's more of a feeling of need, and they put their needs above the needs of their child.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:51 pm

I hope Tiff doesnt mind me using this thread for this but im starting to see this as an epidemic to. School Shootings especially in universities.

Now correct me if I am wrong most students who go to these schools are paying in some way even if they get scholarships there is still money being paid to the school to provide some level of safety for said students. So why in the world are we seeing so many rashes of shootings going on at these institutions? You would think after the V-Tech nightmare that security at most universities and or colleges would be running abit more efficiently so that this kind of stuff gets nipped in the butt before tragedy strikes.

Now in Public run schools funding is always an issue, schools are having a hard time as it is just keeping programs due to budget cuts. Though I would love to see some bills passed to channel money in for not only that but protection of the students. Id also like to see more qualified psychologists working for schools. I know some would say "this would single out those who have problems." Well you know what after the latest school shooting I think its time. Had I only listened to the guidance councelor when I was in Junior Highschool who warned me that I kept things in to much and raged at the wrong times who knows how different my life would be right now.

Its time that someone parents, legistlators, or students themselves start demanding more for their dollar. Even though public schools dont get tution money from people tax dollars are supposedly funneled into such. So isnt the budget focused on keeping things like this from happening? Its incidents like this that make being a parent heartwrenching for me and I dont expect it to be that way for everyone. But the thought that I can send my son out to school one day and have him not come home because of someone elses kid losing it and deciding this was gonna be shoot out day scares me to no ends now. And to me these school shootings are becoming abit too more common place then they should.
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Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




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Post by wink568 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:07 pm

Senshi_of_vision;

I totally agree. Why aren't colleges and universities safer? They should have plenty of money they can put toward security. Not only that, but many public universities receive state funding.

We haven't had a problem with violence on that level at my school (obviously), but smaller violent crimes have been observed. We had a girl get raped in her dorm room by three guys a few months ago. The only reason it got statewide attention is because she reported it to police instead of the campus security. If the school would have gotten a hold of it they would have kept it hush hush.

I think a lot of times students get a false sense of security. I know kids who live in the dorms, and leave their rooms unlocked all the time, so that there friends can pop in. It just isn't a smart thing to do. When you have so many people in such a small area, there's bound to be a predator of some sort.

As for school shootings, there isn't much that the individual students can do to protect themselves. That's what makes it so scary. If you lock your apartment, never go out alone at night, that isn't going to protect you from somebody shooting you on the way to class, or while you're in class. The school needs to do more in that area.

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Post by Jeff » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:50 pm

I think pouring money into protection services at colleges and universities is overlooking the bigger picture. This isn't a "school problem." It's a symptom of where the wider culture is headed right now.

I don't know what the cause is or anything. A combination of things I'm sure. What the TV teaches kids certainly isn't helping, but I doubt that's the whole story.

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Post by Gamer8585 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:26 pm

wink568 wrote:Senshi_of_vision;

I totally agree. Why aren't colleges and universities safer? They should have plenty of money they can put toward security. Not only that, but many public universities receive state funding.

We haven't had a problem with violence on that level at my school (obviously), but smaller violent crimes have been observed. We had a girl get raped in her dorm room by three guys a few months ago. The only reason it got statewide attention is because she reported it to police instead of the campus security. If the school would have gotten a hold of it they would have kept it hush hush.

I think a lot of times students get a false sense of security. I know kids who live in the dorms, and leave their rooms unlocked all the time, so that there friends can pop in. It just isn't a smart thing to do. When you have so many people in such a small area, there's bound to be a predator of some sort.

As for school shootings, there isn't much that the individual students can do to protect themselves. That's what makes it so scary. If you lock your apartment, never go out alone at night, that isn't going to protect you from somebody shooting you on the way to class, or while you're in class. The school needs to do more in that area.
Unfortunately just pumping money into security won't help all that much. Most campuses (campai???) are open, and locking them down is nearly impossible. The only thing is to have a guard or cop at every corner, but I think people wouldn't go to a university that dose that (it would be really uncomfortable), plus the man power costs would be sky high.

Metal detectors at each building aren't much of an option either since it would slow traffic to a crawl, and students sometimes only have 5-10 minutes to get to class.

Letting students carry concealed weapons seems like an option, but it increases the chances of something happening (on a lesser scale then death, but it would still be uncomfortable to go to a school like that).

Really, we can only look for signs and get people the help they need before they decided to go shoot up the place.

Other then that there really aren't any good solutions. And like Jeff said the origin of the problem is really in the broader society, and I don't think that it is as simple as media influence.

Also, it seems increasingly like its people that are mentally ill that are doing this. In V-Tech it was a kid that didn't get the help he needed, and in the most recent one I heard that the kid was on anti-depressants, but stopped taking them. Probably more to the story, but this problem might transcend social explanations.
Last edited by Gamer8585 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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OF COURSE I"M MAD! YOU SHOT ME IN THE ASS! ---???

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Senshi_of_Vision
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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:35 pm

I agree thats why I also think that there should be more focus on psychologist in schools. I know people hate being labeled with anything and god for bid if your child is. As humans no one wants to be singled out and as a parent I know I get defensive and have when stuff is pointed out about my son. But seriously if he did have a problem mentally Id rather be the parent of a son who is getting help then ignore it and be the mother of the guy who shot up a school then took his own life.

People need to stop looking at mental illness problems as something to be ashamed of and start getting help when kids show signs of this stuff. When we ignore it or dont press shootings like this seem to occur. Now people can say music and media helps and heck even in my situation though I know different, the music I listen to the video games I play and have played all could be linked to my mental condition, then again so could social aspects the way I was raised trauma from past incidents..etc.

There are a number of factors for mental illness and instability I just think its about time people stop tiptoing around it to spare feelings. Now with grown ups you cant do this but any parents who care for their kids and see these signs should try to get help for their kids. I cant understand anyone who would rather ignore it and hope it go away when a person could really be suffering. And I think a budget for psychologist especially in elementary-highschool could help stem the flow of some emotionally disturbed kids before they reach college or turn on their schools cause its not just colleges that are going threw this.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Aishiteru
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Post by Aishiteru » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:22 pm

I think the things everyone said are true, but I also think the people can be the problem, if you know what I mean. If the other students are jerks to that one person, that person doesn't even have to have a mental problem to want to shoot up the school in my opinion. I'm not making excuses for the sstudents that do it, it's just that if everyone would learn to at least be civil (they don't have to love eachother, just don't be completely evil). I think if that person had one real friend then maybe they wouldn't be so miserable, or at least if they were, someone would be able to talk to them and notice.
I mean, there was a bomb threat at my school last year, and I knew the guy. He doesn't have a mental problem. I was his only friend because he was emo and bisexual, and everyone was just a jerk to him. The people at my school are mostly homophobic idiots. I talked him out of actually bringing the bomb (he had one, I have no idea how he could have gotten it). The threat couldn't be taken back though, so he went to juvi for six months. He's back now, and he still seems sad all the time, but maybe if everyone just left him alone, instead of being idiotic....
The Music of the Night and Tuxedo Mirage are what keep me from going completely INSANE! (right...)

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Jeff
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Post by Jeff » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:38 pm

Aishiteru wrote:I think the things everyone said are true, but I also think the people can be the problem, if you know what I mean. If the other students are jerks to that one person, that person doesn't even have to have a mental problem to want to shoot up the school in my opinion. I'm not making excuses for the sstudents that do it, it's just that if everyone would learn to at least be civil (they don't have to love eachother, just don't be completely evil). I think if that person had one real friend then maybe they wouldn't be so miserable, or at least if they were, someone would be able to talk to them and notice.
I mean, there was a bomb threat at my school last year, and I knew the guy. He doesn't have a mental problem. I was his only friend because he was emo and bisexual, and everyone was just a jerk to him. The people at my school are mostly homophobic idiots. I talked him out of actually bringing the bomb (he had one, I have no idea how he could have gotten it). The threat couldn't be taken back though, so he went to juvi for six months. He's back now, and he still seems sad all the time, but maybe if everyone just left him alone, instead of being idiotic....
I disagree. People have always been mean and other people have always been picked on. People didn't start shooting up campuses until the late 20th century. The students murdered at NIU didn't even have a connection to the killer (as far as I'm aware. To be honest I've avoided reading the news about this shooting).

The need for psychologists is suspect as well. I mean, why didn't we need all of these psychologists before? Why are young people today more likely to commit acts of wanton violence than they were decades ago? Mental illnesses like depression are much more prevalent in developed countries... Why is that? I'm not saying depression isn't a real illness that requires treatment (it is), but we need to begin to ask ourselves these questions.

Situations like what just happened at NIU tend to draw out the nuts arguing for this or that pet-cause (Marylin Manson did it! Gun-prevention laws did it!), but as a society we have not focused our attention where it's really needed.

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Post by Aishiteru » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:32 pm

Jeff wrote:
Aishiteru wrote:I think the things everyone said are true, but I also think the people can be the problem, if you know what I mean. If the other students are jerks to that one person, that person doesn't even have to have a mental problem to want to shoot up the school in my opinion. I'm not making excuses for the sstudents that do it, it's just that if everyone would learn to at least be civil (they don't have to love eachother, just don't be completely evil). I think if that person had one real friend then maybe they wouldn't be so miserable, or at least if they were, someone would be able to talk to them and notice.
I mean, there was a bomb threat at my school last year, and I knew the guy. He doesn't have a mental problem. I was his only friend because he was emo and bisexual, and everyone was just a jerk to him. The people at my school are mostly homophobic idiots. I talked him out of actually bringing the bomb (he had one, I have no idea how he could have gotten it). The threat couldn't be taken back though, so he went to juvi for six months. He's back now, and he still seems sad all the time, but maybe if everyone just left him alone, instead of being idiotic....
I disagree. People have always been mean and other people have always been picked on. People didn't start shooting up campuses until the late 20th century. The students murdered at NIU didn't even have a connection to the killer (as far as I'm aware. To be honest I've avoided reading the news about this shooting).

The need for psychologists is suspect as well. I mean, why didn't we need all of these psychologists before? Why are young people today more likely to commit acts of wanton violence than they were decades ago? Mental illnesses like depression are much more prevalent in developed countries... Why is that? I'm not saying depression isn't a real illness that requires treatment (it is), but we need to begin to ask ourselves these questions.

Situations like what just happened at NIU tend to draw out the nuts arguing for this or that pet-cause (Marylin Manson did it! Gun-prevention laws did it!), but as a society we have not focused our attention where it's really needed.
I understand what you mean, but up until the late 20th century, many people didn't get higher education. Schools were much smaller and everyone knew what was going on in everyone else's life. I also know that the people these shooters kill often aren't tied to them in any way. I know that they don't always kill the jerks, but they don't kill the ones that are nice to them either. (At least that's what I've come to think, I could very easily be wrong). And I know I'm an unrealistic idealist, but maybe if everyone just wasn't so insecure and wasn't such a jerk, these kinds of things would happen less often. They wouldn't stop completley of course, every situation's different, but maybe it could be caught in time to prevent it.
The Music of the Night and Tuxedo Mirage are what keep me from going completely INSANE! (right...)

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