Banning websites on school computers

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Post by Cardcaptor Takato » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:21 pm

Banana wrote:I don't agree with it. If people want to goof off on the comp, that's their problem and their grade. And besides, some live far away from their family and the only thing they can do is e-amil so they should be given a chance to do so.
And it most certainly is too your problem, not just theirs, when you get a failing grade because you can't do research for your homework because all the computers are being hogged by procrastinators goofing off. Besides, I don't think checking your email on a public computer is all that safe. I mean, what if you accidentally forget to log out and somebody steals your password and screws around with your account? Or what if you accidentally get a virus from an email and it infects the school computer and the school sues you for breaking their machine?
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Post by sailor_dream1414 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:55 pm

personally dont care and i will NEVER go on school computer and research on their sicne the computer are peice of junk!the internet is toooooooo slow and you cant finnish your research and they need new computers!(my schcool has very very very OLD computer and the internet run SLOW!)i personally hate school.to me it not a good place to learn(im pretty much a goof off person who dosnt care about education(well not entirely a goof off person sometime i doo care baout my education)but i do it anyways since it the only way to pass school)

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Post by Tiff » Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:10 pm

sailor_dream1414 wrote:personally dont care and i will NEVER go on school computer and research on their sicne the computer are peice of junk!the internet is toooooooo slow and you cant finnish your research and they need new computers!(my schcool has very very very OLD computer and the internet run SLOW!)i personally hate school.to me it not a good place to learn(im pretty much a goof off person who dosnt care about education(well not entirely a goof off person sometime i doo care baout my education)but i do it anyways since it the only way to pass school)
....wow.

You know, perhaps if you cared more about your education, your grammar and spelling would improve.

But I digress. On to my points:

1) Computers in colleges generally run on broadband internet, which is way faster. I've never had a problem with my college's computers.

2) Honestly? It's people like you that make it hard for teachers like me.

3) It's kind of hard justifying "school isn't a good place to learn" simply becuase you don't care about your education. It's a good place to learn.. you just simply don't care.

I hope you can find a good job someday.

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Post by sailor_dream1414 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:11 pm

yeah i know my grammer and spelling is bad but i dont care(my typing is bad mostly.hehe im like usagi in anime allways late for school,bad grammer and spelling sometime getting bad grades and clumsy,lazy)
well their just little of reason to me school is not a good place(i know i had more in my mind but i just lost it)

their lot of people who goof off and student get so much distractionfrom them(well at least i dont do that)

some people get stress(when their life is entirly busy like me.i have to care for my animals and i really need to give mediction to my turtles since thye got shell rot and saving them is more important)

i pretty much know that my school is just caring about schooll spirits(im seeing lot of building in the shcool having school color and everywhere has school color and the text book are soooo old riped out page and old computer which they need to upgreat from what i see in my school)well this dosnt count but i was very dissapointed about my middle school

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Post by jupiter23 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:40 pm

sailor_dream1414 wrote:yeah i know my grammer and spelling is bad but i dont care(my typing is bad mostly.hehe im like usagi in anime allways late for school,bad grammer and spelling sometime getting bad grades and clumsy,lazy)
well their just little of reason to me school is not a good place(i know i had more in my mind but i just lost it)

their lot of people who goof off and student get so much distractionfrom them(well at least i dont do that)

some people get stress(when their life is entirly busy like me.i have to care for my animals and i really need to give mediction to my turtles since thye got shell rot and saving them is more important)

i pretty much know that my school is just caring about schooll spirits(im seeing lot of building in the shcool having school color and everywhere has school color and the text book are soooo old riped out page and old computer which they need to upgreat from what i see in my school)well this dosnt count but i was very dissapointed about my middle school
How do you know that you aren't distracting the other students by goofing off? In my own experience, many of the kids who did goof off in class didn't think they were a distraction to the kids who actually wanted to learn, either. And they still were. And I would think that if you had time to goof off, then being worried about your animals being sick shouldn't be such a problem for you, either.

I'd also like to know how a school promoting school spirit is a bad thing. I've known many a school that heavily promoted school spirit, and they were also very good institutions (my junior high and high school were one, as well as the university I went to and several other universities in this area.)
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Post by yoshmaster5 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:34 pm

...

The students that do nothing but goof off, or act like clowns tick me off more than anything. Even more than the teacher imcompetence I deal with... (3 of mine have insanely severe ADHD. As in, during CALCULUS the teacher starts talking about how the US Interstate is set up), the students who are loud, obnoxious, and don't care at all about what they're doing drives me insane. Marching band, I might like it more if so many of the freshman gave a rat's ass about what they're doing. If you act like you don't need school, or you're focused on the short-term so you blow off your education... well, you're screwed.

Anyways, one thing that my school does that irritates me, is the insane banning of game sites. I'm not talking about miniclip, or zone, or whatever. I'm thinking of very safe, clean forums or websites. They've banned Smash Bros. Dojo, and that has no games, and the school computers don't even have music, so there's no harm in the site. That bugs me, but if all else fails, once I finish stuff I'll go on Serebii.net. ;)
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Post by sailor_dream1414 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:54 pm

im pretty much surrounded by student who talk and goof off and the other side is like the same thing and hearing other poeple saying shut up to them.not unless the animal sickness is Severe.and thes the medictaion im giving dosent take days it take weeks or possibly months and these reptile medication dont take fast as other type since most reptiles arnt popular as cats,dogs.and it hard to find a vet who treat reptiles and it become stressing

Excuse me I got a life! I know what I want to be and what I wanted to be has nothing has to do with English, math, and other subject(except life science but I notice their little information about animals just telling about their evolution and telling you if their cold blooded or warm blooded telling you if their carnivore, herb., omnivore.)

And what does gym has to teach you with? Yeah fitness but what does it teach you in the real life? And I hate doing this stuff for gym I got right to not exercise and those people shouldn’t tell you what to do it should be us making the decision

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Post by peachvampiress » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:30 pm

And what does gym has to teach you with? Yeah fitness but what does it teach you in the real life? And I hate doing this stuff for gym I got right to not exercise and those people shouldn’t tell you what to do it should be us making the decision
Discipline
Teamwork
Time management
Sportsmanship
How to lose graciously
How to do stuff instead of being lazy

And you're still young. Most highschool's don't let you choose to drop out and take different course until the later grades when you're older and more mature.
Excuse me I got a life! I know what I want to be and what I wanted to be has nothing has to do with English, math, and other subject(except life science but I notice their little information about animals just telling about their evolution and telling you if their cold blooded or warm blooded telling you if their carnivore, herb., omnivore.)
English might improve your grammar and make you easier to comprehend. And you'd be suprised how much the subjects you learn in school will applay later to your job and your life.

Or, here's a crazy idea, you could learn just for the sake of learning.
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Post by Tiff » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:00 pm

ADMIN MODE:

1) sailordream14_14, you need to watch your typing. I can barely get through one of your posts, becuase of how incoherent you are. Watch your typing, and take a moment to proofread so we can understand you.

2) Get back on topic, guys. This is turning into an argument fast.

MEMBER MODE:
Anyways, one thing that my school does that irritates me, is the insane banning of game sites. I'm not talking about miniclip, or zone, or whatever. I'm thinking of very safe, clean forums or websites. They've banned Smash Bros. Dojo, and that has no games, and the school computers don't even have music, so there's no harm in the site. That bugs me, but if all else fails, once I finish stuff I'll go on Serebii.net.
It's. for. school. business.

Games and music /= school. Come on, it's not that difficult. You're not at school to play games and listen to mp3s.

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Post by Gamer8585 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:53 pm

Tiff wrote:
Anyways, one thing that my school does that irritates me, is the insane banning of game sites. I'm not talking about miniclip, or zone, or whatever. I'm thinking of very safe, clean forums or websites. They've banned Smash Bros. Dojo, and that has no games, and the school computers don't even have music, so there's no harm in the site. That bugs me, but if all else fails, once I finish stuff I'll go on Serebii.net.
It's. for. school. business.

Games and music /= school. Come on, it's not that difficult. You're not at school to play games and listen to mp3s.
God, I'm so sick of this argument. Yes, school computers are there primarily for the purposes of academic studies...point coincided.

But, humans are not machines...we do not work all the time and the ones that do have (or develop) serious physical and psychological problems. People need to be able to have downtime and use it to relax, many times even when we are in a place primarily for work related purposes. Just look at the working world, almost everyone has a computer at their desk, and you know what, they routinely engage in activities that amount to "goofing off."

Has this caused a gross loss in productivity? Have corporations gone under? No, of course not, because people are still smart enough to balance their time properly to finish their obligations.

In school its basically the same thing, kids still get their work done even with the ability to goof off, and the ones that don't fail. I say good. They have to learn how to behave like an adult, in their private life and at whatever job they get they have to be able to balance work and distraction and the sooner they learn this the better. There are going to be distractions in any job they get, computer or no, so its best that they learn how to do it in school.

Plus, what about the good kid that finishes his work and wants to kill a few extra minutes? Why should he be punished for the actions of some looser destined to work at McDonald's?? Is it not better to let a thousand guilty men go free then one innocent man be deprived of his freedom?

Not to mention I am wholly against any agent of the government being able to impose censorship on anything short of matters pertaining to military operational security (and even then I look at it with a very skeptical eye).
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Post by NameGoesHere » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:26 pm

Gamer8585 wrote:But, humans are not machines...we do not work all the time and the ones that do have (or develop) serious physical and psychological problems. People need to be able to have downtime and use it to relax, many times even when we are in a place primarily for work related purposes. Just look at the working world, almost everyone has a computer at their desk, and you know what, they routinely engage in activities that amount to "goofing off."
The worker and the student are not the same. The person who works all day at the computer has no other place but the computer to relax and unwind at, and no one is waiting in line to use the worker's computer.

The student is only at the computer for an hour or so, and someone probably is waiting to use that computer after them. If the student needs to goof off so badly, why can't they get up and go "unwind" someplace else?
Gamer8585 wrote:Is it not better to let a thousand guilty men go free then one innocent man be deprived of his freedom?
Deprived of freedom? Are we talking about teenager screwing around on a computer, or are we talking about unjust imprisonment? The way I see it, there's a biiiig difference between the two.
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Post by Gamer8585 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:52 pm

NameGoesHere wrote: The student is only at the computer for an hour or so, and someone probably is waiting to use that computer after them. If the student needs to goof off so badly, why can't they get up and go "unwind" someplace else?
The key word here is probably, we base ethics (and more importantly operational procedures) on paradigms, not nuanced specific conditions. Plus if a person is waiting to use a computer it is only ethically responsible for anyone not engaged in work to give up their seat. I know I've done that quite a few times, and I've seen others do it. There is usually just a lack of communication between the ones waiting to do work and the ones goofing off. Also in many cases there is no other place to go that allows someone to unwind. In High School they'll drag your ass back, and in college there is almost nothing else to do on campus (especially if its less the 30 min between classes). If you don't live on campus, but are between classes where are you going to go, especially the ones that don't have their own car?
Deprived of freedom? Are we talking about teenager screwing around on a computer, or are we talking about unjust imprisonment? The way I see it, there's a biiiig difference between the two.
There is a big difference in the results, but the underlying ethic is still reasonable. If we value freedom, then we value all aspects of it, we should not say..."yes you are free, except in way XYZ" Or in the words of Fidel Castro's definition of Cuban's freedom "Inside the revolution anything, outside the revolution nothing."

Of course exceptions are made to freedom to live in a society, but the only times these exceptions are legitimate is: 1) when a person's physical safety is in danger, and 2) when one's freedoms will interfere with another's rights. Which is why crimes such as Rape, Murder, and Robbery are universally considered bad, because freedom of such actions interfere with with other's right to be safe (as well as violating the unstated contract of the social compact).
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Post by peachvampiress » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:33 pm

-_- Big Brother is not going to take over the country and throw us all in the Ministry of Love because the teacher told little Billy or little Madysyn that they can't browse Ebaumsworld during class time. If you feel your rights are being violeted because you can't screw around on THE SCHOOL'S computer during class, then your life is pretty cushy.

Now perhaps someone with more knowledge of computers can answer this question. Back in highschool some of my classes were in the computer room, which had about 12 computers, and were, I assume, on the same system because we'd loose our Internet connection at the same time (quite frequently, and our teacher would have to go to another room to start it back up). Would this mean that in a room where all the computers are connected, if one person was screwing around and looking at an image heavy site, would it affect how the other computers are running? Would it slow them all down?
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Post by Gamer8585 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:32 pm

peachvampiress wrote:-_- Big Brother is not going to take over the country and throw us all in the Ministry of Love because the teacher told little Billy or little Madysyn that they can't browse Ebaumsworld during class time. If you feel your rights are being violeted because you can't screw around on THE SCHOOL'S computer during class, then your life is pretty cushy.
I never meant suggest that not being able to surf sites in school will lead to a Machiavellian reordering of society, my concerns are ontological and, I believe, valid. While the direct consequences of restricted access in such a setting are minor, it is rather the underlying ethic that I take issue with, and other rules that may flow from it. Plus there is the debate on whether the government or its agents even have the ethical grounding to enact such restrictions.
Now perhaps someone with more knowledge of computers can answer this question. Back in highschool some of my classes were in the computer room, which had about 12 computers, and were, I assume, on the same system because we'd loose our Internet connection at the same time (quite frequently, and our teacher would have to go to another room to start it back up). Would this mean that in a room where all the computers are connected, if one person was screwing around and looking at an image heavy site, would it affect how the other computers are running? Would it slow them all down?
....well from my understanding, one computer could theoretically affect the others. However the amount of data that would need to be downloaded at once to knock out access to the others would be pretty ginormus (way bigger then any website), and after it was done the access should return. Not to mention that all the computers should have equal bandwidth priority, and thus if all were acting at maximum capacity no computer should be using more then 1/12 of the total bandwidth. Sounds more like a problem with either the modem/server/router (or whatever you had the computers connected to) or the building's infrastructure.

I know my DSL goes down every now and then and sometimes has problems maintaining a connection (I notice a lot of CRC errors crop up when this happens). I also notice that it doesn't happen for a long while after I: 1) free up disk space, 2) defragment and 3) restart the computer, so I'm guessing there can be issues with the OS connecting to the net.

Or it may have just been the ISP your school was using screwing with you after noticing an abnormal amount of simultaneous connections and large amounts of bandwidth being used. Unlikely since they should expect that kind of thing from a school, but there is an off chance they had an anit-hack program running to prevent DDoS attacks and Spam, but forgot to exempt your school.

But those are just my best guesses.
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Post by NameGoesHere » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:43 pm

Gamer8585 wrote:The key word here is probably, we base ethics (and more importantly operational procedures) on paradigms, not nuanced specific conditions. Plus if a person is waiting to use a computer it is only ethically responsible for anyone not engaged in work to give up their seat. I know I've done that quite a few times, and I've seen others do it. There is usually just a lack of communication between the ones waiting to do work and the ones goofing off. Also in many cases there is no other place to go that allows someone to unwind. In High School they'll drag your ass back, and in college there is almost nothing else to do on campus (especially if its less the 30 min between classes). If you don't live on campus, but are between classes where are you going to go, especially the ones that don't have their own car?
If the ones who are waiting to work don't tell somebody that they are waiting, then that's their problem. Part of maintaining any rights in a group environment is asserting them.

And, yes, many people do base their personal ethics on "nuanced specific conditions." Some people don't take the last piece of cake because someone else might want it. It has to do a with personal preference. Everyone's ethical philosophy is different, so really, there is no "we."

As far as finding something else to do... why not read something, or get a sudoku book, or talk to somebody? There's plenty of stuff you can do to kill a few minutes of time if you're creative. With high schoolers, if the kid manages their time well enough (and they don't have psychotic parents who force them into every extra-curricular activity under the sun), they should have enough personal time after school and during lunch to keep themselves sane.
Gamer8585 wrote:There is a big difference in the results, but the underlying ethic is still reasonable. If we value freedom, then we value all aspects of it, we should not say..."yes you are free, except in way XYZ" Or in the words of Fidel Castro's definition of Cuban's freedom "Inside the revolution anything, outside the revolution nothing."

Of course exceptions are made to freedom to live in a society, but the only times these exceptions are legitimate is: 1) when a person's physical safety is in danger, and 2) when one's freedoms will interfere with another's rights. Which is why crimes such as Rape, Murder, and Robbery are universally considered bad, because freedom of such actions interfere with with other's right to be safe (as well as violating the unstated contract of the social compact).
Exceptions need to be made in an institutional environment, as well. A school is an institution, and as such it has dress codes, conduct codes, and schedules to keep it running smoothly. You could argue that class schedules impede someone's freedom to do stuff when they feel like doing it, but nothing could be accomplished in school without a schedule. Wouldn't it interfere with a student's right to learn if all the other students showed up in dinosaur suits and started humping the desks in between the erratically timed classes?

I know all about liberty, but, like you said, living in a society sometimes requires exceptions. You either deal with it, or you find a way around it and try not to get caught.
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Post by Tiff » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:37 am

...my god. *rolls eyes*

Gamer8585, your comments are just....ridiculous, IMO. Your comparing not being able to goof around on school computers to some sort of government control and uprising against the poor free peoples. Good god, give me a break.

Peachvampiress and NameGoesHere, totally agree with you.

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Post by Cardcaptor Takato » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:50 am

Gamer8585 wrote: I never meant suggest that not being able to surf sites in school will lead to a Machiavellian reordering of society, my concerns are ontological and, I believe, valid. While the direct consequences of restricted access in such a setting are minor, it is rather the underlying ethic that I take issue with, and other rules that may flow from it. Plus there is the debate on whether the government or its agents even have the ethical grounding to enact such restrictions.
So, in other words, people should have the rights to do whatever they want to with someone else's computer yet the schools that actually OWN those computers don't have the rights to set their own rules or regulations for something that they OWN? What was that about an exception to freedom being only when it interferes with somebody else's rights? :roll: So, does that mean I can go over to your house and use your computer however I want to goof off for however long I want because obviously the freedom of rights means I should have free access to your things even if I don't own them? I think you're missing a valid point that these computers DO NOT belong to you. These computers belong to the school and government, therefore, the school and government should have the freedom to do whatever they want with the computers that THEY own. If you don't like it, either go to a different school, start your own school or get your OWN computer. Also, you do not go to school to "unwind." You go there to learn. If you can't find ways to entertain yourself when you're bored, that's your problem, not theirs. Last time I checked, the school was not a babysitter.
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Post by Tiff » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:10 pm

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:So, in other words, people should have the rights to do whatever they want to with someone else's computer yet the schools that actually OWN those computers don't have the rights to set their own rules or regulations for something that they OWN? What was that about an exception to freedom being only when it interferes with somebody else's rights? :roll: So, does that mean I can go over to your house and use your computer however I want to goof off for however long I want because obviously the freedom of rights means I should have free access to your things even if I don't own them? I think you're missing a valid point that these computers DO NOT belong to you. These computers belong to the school and government, therefore, the school and government should have the freedom to do whatever they want with the computers that THEY own. If you don't like it, either go to a different school, start your own school or get your OWN computer. Also, you do not go to school to "unwind." You go there to learn. If you can't find ways to entertain yourself when you're bored, that's your problem, not theirs. Last time I checked, the school was not a babysitter.
Bravo. Couldn't have said it better myself. We have a serious problem with entitlement in our society for things that don't belong to us or that we don't deserve on a silver platter.

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Post by Gamer8585 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:27 pm

NameGoesHere wrote:And, yes, many people do base their personal ethics on "nuanced specific conditions." Some people don't take the last piece of cake because someone else might want it. It has to do a with personal preference. Everyone's ethical philosophy is different, so really, there is no "we."
Really, you think many people actively think and list all the specific conditions that can arise in every given situation and then choose a course of action????

While ideal, this is not practical for alot of reasons which I'm sure you can see already.

As an example of paradigm thinking take theft. If I asked someone if stealing is wrong and should be outlawed they would (in all likelihood) immediately respond with "yes." However if I present the situation that a poor man steals a loaf of bread to feed his starving family, the question of if/how to condemn gets very murky and is still a subject of debate. Society cannot condone theft, but it must also be humane to starving people, the integrity of the family, and the acknowledgment of the duty of a father/husband to provide. So was it a noble act by the father, or an ignoble act by a thief?
NameGoesHere wrote:As far as finding something else to do... why not read something, or get a sudoku book, or talk to somebody? There's plenty of stuff you can do to kill a few minutes of time if you're creative. With high schoolers, if the kid manages their time well enough (and they don't have psychotic parents who force them into every extra-curricular activity under the sun), they should have enough personal time after school and during lunch to keep themselves sane.
And if no-one else needs to use a computer why should they not be able to use it to kill time? You have not addressed a reason on why it is appropriate to punish them. As for after-school, I think thats a non issue because they can go home, to the library, etc. For computer use and internet access.
Tiff wrote:...my god. *rolls eyes*

Gamer8585, your comments are just....ridiculous, IMO. Your comparing not being able to goof around on school computers to some sort of government control and uprising against the poor free peoples. Good god, give me a break.

Peachvampiress and NameGoesHere, totally agree with you.
Woah...time out. I never meant to equate a minor inconvenience with actual suffering. Rather I take exception with the violation of the academic ethic that censoring implies. I just don't feel that the grounding is solid, and treating kids like babies all the time is detrimental to intellectual and emotional growth.
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:So, in other words, people should have the rights to do whatever they want to with someone else's computer yet the schools that actually OWN those computers don't have the rights to set their own rules or regulations for something that they OWN? What was that about an exception to freedom being only when it interferes with somebody else's rights? Rolling Eyes So, does that mean I can go over to your house and use your computer however I want to goof off for however long I want because obviously the freedom of rights means I should have free access to your things even if I don't own them? I think you're missing a valid point that these computers DO NOT belong to you. These computers belong to the school and government, therefore, the school and government should have the freedom to do whatever they want with the computers that THEY own. If you don't like it, either go to a different school, start your own school or get your OWN computer. Also, you do not go to school to "unwind." You go there to learn. If you can't find ways to entertain yourself when you're bored, that's your problem, not theirs. Last time I checked, the school was not a babysitter.
First off, who owns the computers? Well for individuals is the buyer of the computer, for colleges its the institutions, but For public schools its the TAX PAYERS. The schools are entrusted only to the maintenance and administration of the technology. While individuals and colleges have the right to do whatever they want with their machines, I believe I (as a tax payer) have a right to at least be heard on the way I believe technology THAT I HELPED PAY FOR AND HELP MAINTAIN, is used. Now, I acknowledge that I am not the soul arbiter of district IT policy, but I do believe that my arguments have a right to be considered. And no, no one goes to school or work "to" unwind, but since any place of work includes a build up of stress it must be released periodically during the execution of tasks. I see this in both schools and the working world. And you still haven't made a case for why a person shouldn't be able to use the computer to unwind if no one else needs it for work.
Tiff wrote: We have a serious problem with entitlement in our society for things that don't belong to us or that we don't deserve on a silver platter.
Actually I agree with this point. Too many people just expect things to be handed to them theses days, and its causing a decline in: motivation, academic performance, and the economy. However, I don't regard this issue as an entitlement one, rather as an issue of professional ethics of educators.
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Post by Tiff » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:58 pm

Gamer8585 wrote:
And if no-one else needs to use a computer why should they not be able to use it to kill time? You have not addressed a reason on why it is appropriate to punish them.
Becuase too many idiots do things like download software, put viruses ont he computers, and do other idiotic things that render the computer useless to the next person who wants to use it. Why should the school have to spend money to fix the computers that are meant for school business? If EVERYBODY were smart about their internet surfing and whatnot, then that'd be fine and dandy. But the truth is, they aren't. Too many 14 year olds (and hell, even college students) want to download shoot em up flash games, click on unknown emails and viruses with possible viruses, and file share. It's a preventative measure to NOT give the student the opportunity to do this.
First off, who owns the computers? Well for individuals is the buyer of the computer, for colleges its the institutions, but For public schools its the TAX PAYERS.
Um, actually? A lot, if not most, computer labs/school computers are bought through grants, fundraisers and such. Just about every elementary school I've been to has had that be the case.

And before you argue "omg I made a donation so therefore it's mine", you're donating to HELP the school have resources for the kids' use, not so you can OWN it.

And come on. Being a tax payer and paying for your kid to attend school doesn't equate you owning the equipment. That's just another ridiculous argument trying to justify being able to use a computer for whatever you want. And hey, guess what? If you don't like the idea of paying taxes for your kid's education and not having free for all access to the computers, then send your kid to a private school, or home school them yourselves.

Joey: The question is, Rachel, does he like you? ''Cuz if he doesn''t, then it''s all just a moo point.
Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
-Friends

"In learning you will teach and in teaching you will learn"
-Son of Man, Tarzan

"Why do we have to resort to nonviolence? Can’t we just kick their asses?"
-Leela, Futurama

~*Happily married to My Joe since 08/04/07*~

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