Double Standards with Women

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Post by Queen Of Hearts » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:08 pm

I really hate it in gym class. Right now, all the popular girls aren't all cheerleaders. The popular girls are all soccer chicks, who are all on the same team, and super athetic, and live a perfect life. All the boys adore them, and they all look the same.

So, one day, we had a soccer game, and I'm not good at soccer. They all laughed when I tripped, or when I fell (Sorry, its hard to run when the ground is wet!!).

Then, continues weeks full of sports like basketball and such, and they are all the popular girls.

Then, we play volleyball.
I'm good at volleyball, and the girls bragged and said "I always play volleyball, I rule! I'm going to beat all of you!!!"

Well, comes to find out, the team we are up aganst, is all boys, not a single girl.

Then I spike the ball, and it doesn't quite make it over the net, one of the girls tries to hit it over, and it still doesn't make it.

Her excuse? "Waaah I broke a nail!"
The excuses for all the girls where ridiculous, to the point where the refused to even hit the ball, and didn't bother to play. "I have a cramp!" "I hurt my ankle in the soccer game last night!"

Then when we had to tell the score to the teacher (30-10, since I had to fend them all by myself! ), the girls where like "Ugh, you shouldn't have put us on a team aganst all boys!!!! *SCOFF*"

Then, when we went to play aganst a different team, it was filled with girls tha they where friends with, so they totally goofed off, not playing the game.

>_>

Then, we have this one teacher (My Math teacher). Not to insult anymore, but...I really don't like having super young, straight out of college, hip teachers. She dresses like a kid, and acts like a kid. She goes on and on about how young women like us should stand up for oursleves, and how Hilary is the best person to come since ever! (Personally, I dislike Hillary, I'm for Obama).
Then in the middle of class, she just leaves, and comes back with a Starbucks coffe. We ask her why and she says "I'm only a woman! You can't expect me to work all the time without a break!"

-_-
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Post by Tiff » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:49 pm

Queen Of Hearts wrote: Then, we have this one teacher (My Math teacher). Not to insult anymore, but...I really don't like having super young, straight out of college, hip teachers. She dresses like a kid, and acts like a kid. She goes on and on about how young women like us should stand up for oursleves, and how Hilary is the best person to come since ever! (Personally, I dislike Hillary, I'm for Obama).
Then in the middle of class, she just leaves, and comes back with a Starbucks coffe. We ask her why and she says "I'm only a woman! You can't expect me to work all the time without a break!"

-_-
Rest assured, most straight out of college young teachers are not like that. I was one.

This woman's an idiot. And what the hell is your school doing while teachers skip in and out of class to go down to the local starbucks? Does your school have like...no authority whatsoever?

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Post by Queen Of Hearts » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:00 pm

Tiff wrote:
Queen Of Hearts wrote: Then, we have this one teacher (My Math teacher). Not to insult anymore, but...I really don't like having super young, straight out of college, hip teachers. She dresses like a kid, and acts like a kid. She goes on and on about how young women like us should stand up for oursleves, and how Hilary is the best person to come since ever! (Personally, I dislike Hillary, I'm for Obama).
Then in the middle of class, she just leaves, and comes back with a Starbucks coffe. We ask her why and she says "I'm only a woman! You can't expect me to work all the time without a break!"

-_-
Rest assured, most straight out of college young teachers are not like that. I was one.

This woman's an idiot. And what the hell is your school doing while teachers skip in and out of class to go down to the local starbucks? Does your school have like...no authority whatsoever?
The student teacher assitant is more mature than the actual teacher.

Well, we have a student teacher, and most of the time, the teachers are busy doing other stuff while they teacher.

I hate my school. I wasn't allowed to go today, because my Mom belived that if the wind was so strong that our mailboxes fell down, and 18 wheelers are dropping like flies, its not safe to go to school. (Also, 90% of other schools here where closed minus mine).
Also, for some reason, we have 187 days of school, while everyone else in Monroe county has 180. o_o.

I guess my school is to busy whoring out 'Rachels Challenge' to give a damn.
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Post by yoshmaster5 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:15 pm

Queen, I know how you feel.

My Calc teacher has a habit of just walking out of the classroom. ... I have no idea where he goes, he just vanishes for 5-10 minutes. Another teacher is a pedophile who I'm shocked that he hasn't been fired yet. (Goes to high Schooler's parties, checks out the college girls... my sister wants to kill him).

As for Gym... *shudders* I am so glad I managed to get the PE waiver at my school. I've hated gym since 6th grade... I think this was the worst point.

7th grade, we're going to a baseball diamond. I don't remember how far away it was...
I'm not athletic. I'm fast, but I'm not an athlete. We're going to the diamond, and THIS is what I hear:
"Who wants to be Picard passes out in 5 minutes!"
... I wanted to kill that kid. Just for that, I made sure I was the first one to the diamond, and confronted him about it. ... Luckily, since I moved later, I never had to deal with those jackasses again.
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Post by Tiff » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:04 pm

...You guys go to some of the most horribly-run schools i've ever seen.

EDIT: And let's get back on topic, please.

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Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
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Post by Princess Latona » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:51 am

The fashion and fashion magazine industries earn my vote as holding the biggest double standards with regard to women.

The magazines (Cosmo, Glamour, etc) all have the overriding "girl power, OMG, you can do anything, love yourself the way you are!!!!" theme, yet what do you see when you look at the ads and trends? The same thin models wearing size 0-4 clothes. Now, this isn't bashing anyone who's that size, but it rather bugs me that they have readers of all different weights and body types, yet they run ads and trend features using the same models they decried in the article on "loving your curves" that was back on page 65.

(I will admit, though, that these mags are still good for fluff reading. At least to me.)

The "high fashion"/couture industry earns even more of my ire. Many designers defend using skinny models by saying they're like hangars for the designs, that the clothes should be noticed above the models. It really seems ridiculous, especially considering that a) there are so many women who struggle with weight and eating disorders (though I realize those aren't necessarily caused by seeing these models, they certainly can't be helping), and b) there are so many gorgeous healthy women of all sizes and shapes. Instead of designing clothes that are meant only for 1-2% of the population, why not design gorgeous clothes that fit a wider swath of the population?

Lastly, what the heck is up with shops/stores who stock limited larger sizes of each style? I kid you not, there are stores that will literally get one size Large per style. They'll have 4-5 extra smalls, 4-5 smalls, 3-4 mediums, 1 large, and (maybe) 1 XL. On a similar note, why the devil do some of the "high fashion" shops (ie, Bebe) only carry jeans and skirts up to a size 10? Do they think that if you're over that, it's time to start shopping for that muumuu?

I just can't stand that the gorgeous clothing is geared toward a much smaller figure than most women have. These companies might make more money by marketing clothes that fit other body types besides "supermodel skinny".

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:06 am

Amen Princess Latona I couldnt agree more, then to add to it is the way woman behave when one is not as in shape as she is. Many women will say body type dont matter, yet secretly shun a friend who maybe heavier then they are. Or worst yet lump them into the class of "the friend I use to make myself look good" that to me is a very disturbing attitude that ive dealt with personally being the heavy friend and it saddens me. Women have to be the most messed up of the sexes, were expected to be beautiful but not notice such or be labled vain. If were too skinny were picked on if were too heavy were not attractive. If were too nurturing we spoil or whimpify our children, but if were too strick were bad or evil. Sometimes I wonder why women are the cosmic butt of the joke of life? Why it has to be so complicated to be a female and why I still love it despite the fact ^_^ good be my mixed up crazy tush just enjoys the chaos.

But im ranting now and its late I should get some sleep hehe.
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Post by Slrjoecool » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:59 am

Princess Latona wrote:The fashion and fashion magazine industries earn my vote as holding the biggest double standards with regard to women.

The magazines (Cosmo, Glamour, etc) all have the overriding "girl power, OMG, you can do anything, love yourself the way you are!!!!" theme, yet what do you see when you look at the ads and trends? The same thin models wearing size 0-4 clothes. Now, this isn't bashing anyone who's that size, but it rather bugs me that they have readers of all different weights and body types, yet they run ads and trend features using the same models they decried in the article on "loving your curves" that was back on page 65.

(I will admit, though, that these mags are still good for fluff reading. At least to me.)

The "high fashion"/couture industry earns even more of my ire. Many designers defend using skinny models by saying they're like hangars for the designs, that the clothes should be noticed above the models. It really seems ridiculous, especially considering that a) there are so many women who struggle with weight and eating disorders (though I realize those aren't necessarily caused by seeing these models, they certainly can't be helping), and b) there are so many gorgeous healthy women of all sizes and shapes. Instead of designing clothes that are meant only for 1-2% of the population, why not design gorgeous clothes that fit a wider swath of the population?

Lastly, what the heck is up with shops/stores who stock limited larger sizes of each style? I kid you not, there are stores that will literally get one size Large per style. They'll have 4-5 extra smalls, 4-5 smalls, 3-4 mediums, 1 large, and (maybe) 1 XL. On a similar note, why the devil do some of the "high fashion" shops (ie, Bebe) only carry jeans and skirts up to a size 10? Do they think that if you're over that, it's time to start shopping for that muumuu?

I just can't stand that the gorgeous clothing is geared toward a much smaller figure than most women have. These companies might make more money by marketing clothes that fit other body types besides "supermodel skinny".
I'm reminded of this when I read that. XD
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Post by Jusenkyo no Pikachu » Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:33 am

Slrjoecool wrote:
Princess Latona wrote:The fashion and fashion magazine industries earn my vote as holding the biggest double standards with regard to women.

The magazines (Cosmo, Glamour, etc) all have the overriding "girl power, OMG, you can do anything, love yourself the way you are!!!!" theme, yet what do you see when you look at the ads and trends? The same thin models wearing size 0-4 clothes. Now, this isn't bashing anyone who's that size, but it rather bugs me that they have readers of all different weights and body types, yet they run ads and trend features using the same models they decried in the article on "loving your curves" that was back on page 65.

(I will admit, though, that these mags are still good for fluff reading. At least to me.)

The "high fashion"/couture industry earns even more of my ire. Many designers defend using skinny models by saying they're like hangars for the designs, that the clothes should be noticed above the models. It really seems ridiculous, especially considering that a) there are so many women who struggle with weight and eating disorders (though I realize those aren't necessarily caused by seeing these models, they certainly can't be helping), and b) there are so many gorgeous healthy women of all sizes and shapes. Instead of designing clothes that are meant only for 1-2% of the population, why not design gorgeous clothes that fit a wider swath of the population?

Lastly, what the heck is up with shops/stores who stock limited larger sizes of each style? I kid you not, there are stores that will literally get one size Large per style. They'll have 4-5 extra smalls, 4-5 smalls, 3-4 mediums, 1 large, and (maybe) 1 XL. On a similar note, why the devil do some of the "high fashion" shops (ie, Bebe) only carry jeans and skirts up to a size 10? Do they think that if you're over that, it's time to start shopping for that muumuu?

I just can't stand that the gorgeous clothing is geared toward a much smaller figure than most women have. These companies might make more money by marketing clothes that fit other body types besides "supermodel skinny".
I'm reminded of this when I read that. XD
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Post by NameGoesHere » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:30 am

Princess Latona wrote:The fashion and fashion magazine industries earn my vote as holding the biggest double standards with regard to women. [...]
Heh. Reminds me of a couple days ago when I picked up one of those celebrity gossip magazines. It was just sitting on a table, and I'd never actually looked inside of one before, so I decided to take a chance.

Mistake. D:

They had an article in there about how Tara Reid is OMG!too skinny, yet as you flip through every other page, you find an ad for diet pills. The irony burns.
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Post by Princess Latona » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:29 pm

I wasn't sure if there was a better home for this post, so bear with me. (And if there is, point me to it and I'll repost it there.)

The "typical" double-standard toward women in video games aside, I noticed something with one of my favorite RPGs when I was playing it a while back. Why is it if you have a "strong" female in a video game, she sometimes has lines here and there that remark on her clothes and/or hair? I'm not talking about shopping trips or anything like that, but about the battles.

If you play most RPGs, when a character finishes off an enemy (or finishes off the last of a group of enemies), they'll usually have a line they'll say (often a random one of several). In Shadow Hearts: Covenant, you have Karin Koenig, a good female character. She isn't overly weepy, or needing to be "saved"...hell, sometimes she's the one that does the saving! Yet, one of her "finishing" lines is (and I kid you not):

"Don't mess my clothes up."

I can understand another line of hers, where she says "Keep your eyes where they belong", but she never struck me as one who worried about her clothes getting messed up. It seemed like an unnecessary line to stick in for a female character, since you'd likely never hear the "typical" male RPG character say one similar.

It rather irks me when RPG designers give female characters superficial lines like that. Seriously, WTF?

On a side note, why is it that a clumsy, ditzy female RPG character is characterized as a "bimbo", when a male character with the same traits wouldn't?

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Post by MarioKnight » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:55 pm

Princess Latona wrote:On a side note, why is it that a clumsy, ditzy female RPG character is characterized as a "bimbo", when a male character with the same traits wouldn't?
Eh, I would call him a tool. XD Don't know what to say about the rest of the post because it's a good point, but I wanted to let you know I don't let those guys off the hook in gaming. =P
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Post by Rin » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:51 pm

Princess Latona wrote:I wasn't sure if there was a better home for this post, so bear with me. (And if there is, point me to it and I'll repost it there.)

The "typical" double-standard toward women in video games aside, I noticed something with one of my favorite RPGs when I was playing it a while back. Why is it if you have a "strong" female in a video game, she sometimes has lines here and there that remark on her clothes and/or hair? I'm not talking about shopping trips or anything like that, but about the battles.

If you play most RPGs, when a character finishes off an enemy (or finishes off the last of a group of enemies), they'll usually have a line they'll say (often a random one of several). In Shadow Hearts: Covenant, you have Karin Koenig, a good female character. She isn't overly weepy, or needing to be "saved"...hell, sometimes she's the one that does the saving! Yet, one of her "finishing" lines is (and I kid you not):

"Don't mess my clothes up."

I can understand another line of hers, where she says "Keep your eyes where they belong", but she never struck me as one who worried about her clothes getting messed up. It seemed like an unnecessary line to stick in for a female character, since you'd likely never hear the "typical" male RPG character say one similar.

It rather irks me when RPG designers give female characters superficial lines like that. Seriously, WTF?

On a side note, why is it that a clumsy, ditzy female RPG character is characterized as a "bimbo", when a male character with the same traits wouldn't?
Going along those lines, I also hate how half of the female characters that are somewhat badass are dressed completely slutty. Why is it that in order to have a strong female character she must be wearing practically nothing and have gianormous boobs that would give any normal woman back problems?

And since when do slutty clothes = strong woman?
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Post by wink568 » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:57 pm

I can't stand double standards, and completely agree with what a lot of you are saying.

One I've noticed, I guess this is more directed towards men... I'm one of the very few girls in a mostly male program (Facilities Management). I get treated with respect, and am never singled out for being a girl going into a "man's" career. Yet, you see men in the nursing or ultrasound tech programs (for example, I'm sure there's more), and they get hell about it. I wonder if guys are more apt to single out other guys, and pick on them for going into a "woman's" field. I don't really know, though.

It also bothers me when you get the girls (I've seen this a lot, actually) and there boyfriend cheats on them. They'll be really vicious to the girl, calling her a slut, and being mean, but will forgive the boyfriend. Honestly, aren't both to blame? Heck, maybe the girl was even unaware of the situation. I mean, I probably would still be angry with the girl or blame her if for some reason I found myself in that situation, but I would also blame the guy even more, since he was the one committed to me.

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Post by Tiff » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:44 pm

wink568 wrote:
It also bothers me when you get the girls (I've seen this a lot, actually) and there boyfriend cheats on them. They'll be really vicious to the girl, calling her a slut, and being mean, but will forgive the boyfriend. Honestly, aren't both to blame? Heck, maybe the girl was even unaware of the situation. I mean, I probably would still be angry with the girl or blame her if for some reason I found myself in that situation, but I would also blame the guy even more, since he was the one committed to me.
My god, I hate that. It's asinine. Hello, I'd be pissed at the person who was SUPPOSED TO BE COMMITED TO ME AND BROKE THAT COMMITMENT. The mistress didn't have a responsibility to me...the boyfriend did, so why the hell am I going to be angry with someone I don't even know, who had zero responsibility to keeping a promise of monogamy to me?

The only way I can justify being angry with the other party is if, say, that person was a relative or a very close friend. In that case, they DID have SOME level of responsibility to me. But even then, it's still your partner who commited the horrible act.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:53 pm

I never got that mentality either. When my ex cheated even though I knew the person he did so with It was him who got the brunt of my anger. The only time I blew up with the woman he did so with was when she made the mistake of confronting me thinking I was blocking their being together. Unfortunately alot of women dont realize a man will say he is gonna leave his wife to get what he needs out of them, then go right back home and act like nothing is going on. Which was my case if I had not found out he would have been content with a wife and side action ugh.

And the job thing it does bug me as well when people call nursing a female job. Sure alot of nurses even now adays are females but as long as the job is done I dont care if its a male or a female doing it. A nurses job is hard almost thankless and can be downright nasty at times and for any guy or girl to tease a male for being one is completely ignorant. I cant stant job classification by sex period but that one always bugged me to.
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Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
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Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




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Post by Princess Latona » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:12 am

I agree on the whole cheating thing, I never got that either. Both of you have made your points better than I could, so I'll leave that with a solid "I concur".

On the topic of female vs. male career paths, much of it is Sociological in nature. Even with all the advances our society has made in the past few decades, careers like Teaching and Nursing are still seen as women's work, primarily because of the notion that women do better at jobs that seem to be based upon nurturing and caring for others. Men tend to be looked at as an oddity in those fields because they aren't seen as necessarily being nurturing and caring.

Here's a great article about men and the Nursing profession:

http://www.medzilla.com/meninnursing.html

Personally, I think the old stereotype about men not being good or capable nurses is a bunch of hooey. I've been an intern at a hospital since November, and I can safely say that men make just as wonderful and competent of nurses as women.
Going along those lines, I also hate how half of the female characters that are somewhat badass are dressed completely slutty. Why is it that in order to have a strong female character she must be wearing practically nothing and have gianormous boobs that would give any normal woman back problems?

And since when do slutty clothes = strong woman?
It's because of the perceived demographics of video gamers. Even though female gamers are growing in number, it's still widely believed that the "typical" gamer is male, so the game companies tend to pander to them as far as female characters go. Also, part of it may be due to differing game preferences between the genders. While male tend to like the action games that feature a lot of "objectified" (for lack of a better term) women, women tend to play totally different games (often more puzzle or strategy-based). Not that it excuses dressing video game women like cheap whores...
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Post by Queen Of Hearts » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:26 pm

Rin wrote:
Princess Latona wrote:I wasn't sure if there was a better home for this post, so bear with me. (And if there is, point me to it and I'll repost it there.)

The "typical" double-standard toward women in video games aside, I noticed something with one of my favorite RPGs when I was playing it a while back. Why is it if you have a "strong" female in a video game, she sometimes has lines here and there that remark on her clothes and/or hair? I'm not talking about shopping trips or anything like that, but about the battles.

If you play most RPGs, when a character finishes off an enemy (or finishes off the last of a group of enemies), they'll usually have a line they'll say (often a random one of several). In Shadow Hearts: Covenant, you have Karin Koenig, a good female character. She isn't overly weepy, or needing to be "saved"...hell, sometimes she's the one that does the saving! Yet, one of her "finishing" lines is (and I kid you not):

"Don't mess my clothes up."

I can understand another line of hers, where she says "Keep your eyes where they belong", but she never struck me as one who worried about her clothes getting messed up. It seemed like an unnecessary line to stick in for a female character, since you'd likely never hear the "typical" male RPG character say one similar.

It rather irks me when RPG designers give female characters superficial lines like that. Seriously, WTF?

On a side note, why is it that a clumsy, ditzy female RPG character is characterized as a "bimbo", when a male character with the same traits wouldn't?
Going along those lines, I also hate how half of the female characters that are somewhat badass are dressed completely slutty. Why is it that in order to have a strong female character she must be wearing practically nothing and have gianormous boobs that would give any normal woman back problems?

And since when do slutty clothes = strong woman?
D: Fanservice is bad now?

Maybe because it is fantasy, and RL women don't wear those? Like said before, it appeals to the men. My favorite gaming charater is Mai Shiranui, and, she wears all of 5 square inches of clothing, yet she still kicks ass, and is a strong woman!

Just because someone is DRESSED slutty, doesn't mean they go around screwing every guy in sight, kthnx.
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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:19 pm

Queen Of Hearts wrote: D: Fanservice is bad now?

Maybe because it is fantasy, and RL women don't wear those? Like said before, it appeals to the men. My favorite gaming charater is Mai Shiranui, and, she wears all of 5 square inches of clothing, yet she still kicks ass, and is a strong woman!

Just because someone is DRESSED slutty, doesn't mean they go around screwing every guy in sight, kthnx.
Okay wow just wow ive notice a disturbing trend in your response to post on anyone critiquing anything "THEY" may feel is offensive to them. I mean your starting to act like were going around saying oh that QOH is dressed slutty. And just because "YOU" may like the way the characters are portrayed (and maybe some horny guys who dig the graphics of said females look), were not supposed to have our own valid opinions that the way some females are designed annoy us? That isnt right, and im only stating this now because this is about the umptenth time youve jumped on someone who has this kind of opinion from the Bratz thread to the Courtney Love thread you really seem to take it abit too personal when something you adore is attacked.

And while I think its valid that they make the characters to appease some, but how about appeasing females who choose to play them to? How about that? It makes no sense that women in fantasy are always either half naked or have to spaz out even when they are supposed to be tough characters. That was the point that was trying to be made. So settle down there chicka and stop taking it so personal when people point out what "THEY" dont like on certain things.

And yes I maybe taking it abit personal to I note the irony and dont care at this point probably the fever im running but that post kinda got under my nails.
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I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




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Post by Tiff » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:56 pm

Queen Of Hearts wrote:
D: Fanservice is bad now?

Maybe because it is fantasy, and RL women don't wear those? Like said before, it appeals to the men. My favorite gaming charater is Mai Shiranui, and, she wears all of 5 square inches of clothing, yet she still kicks ass, and is a strong woman!

Just because someone is DRESSED slutty, doesn't mean they go around screwing every guy in sight, kthnx.
I'm going to agree with SoV here.

Look, people are talking about FICTIONAL characters here. Why the hell are you getting so defensive? And nobody doubted the fact that these characters "kick ass"...they're simply pointing out that most female characters are dressed unrealistically slutty/skimpy. Do you think it's realistic to go into battle wearing a silky bikini top and ass-pants? Sometimes, people like a LITTLE realism in their games, even if it's an element of fantasy.

and if someone happens to choose IRL to dress what one deems is "slutty", then yes, they're going to be perceived as someone who exhibits such behavior. It's a risk one takes when they decide to wear skirts that show off their ass and shirts that have their boobs popping out of it. I don't need to see that shit, and I don't WANT to see that shit.

ADMIN MODE:

Stop behaving as though every negative/disagreeable opinion is somehow directly related/attacking to something you like/do/think. The defensive behavior in your posts has got to stop.

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Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
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