Double Standards with Women

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Post by Tiff » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:31 am

Princess Latona wrote:Okay, so the drama that set this thought off is lengthy, obnoxious, and a bit personal to stick in here, so I'll stick to my ponderings.

Why is it that a man can be legitimately angry or hurt about something and not necessarily get called out severely on it, while a woman who is showing anger is labelled with the "C" word? Seriously, it's really ridiculous that I can't argue with my guy over something that legitimately has upset me without that label being attached to me by one of his family members because my fiance gets upset during our argument. (The argument itself wasn't overheard, but his outburst back at me was loud enough for others to hear on his end.)

I thought we were past the days when women were seen as gentle, sweet little flowers that should never show a spot of temper. If I'm angry at my fiance over something he's done to piss me off, I have just as much of a right to express that as he would, without being worried someone doesn't like it enough to stick that label on me. Seriously, if I'm the "C" word for expressing my emotions, people who judge me like that are pretentious assholes.

ETA: It isn't just with me that I've seen it. I've noticed women aren't looked on as favorably for showing emotions such as anger. It's one thing if the emotion makes them cry or be upset otherwise, but to show anger in a similar way as a man (shouting, etc) seems more apt to get a woman pegged with the "C" label. Really frustrating for someone who doesn't censor herself most times, like me. :P
What amazes me is that he allows his family members to call you a cunt. I can't imagine my husband being okay with that.

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Post by Princess Latona » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:45 am

Tiff wrote:
Princess Latona wrote:Okay, so the drama that set this thought off is lengthy, obnoxious, and a bit personal to stick in here, so I'll stick to my ponderings.

Why is it that a man can be legitimately angry or hurt about something and not necessarily get called out severely on it, while a woman who is showing anger is labelled with the "C" word? Seriously, it's really ridiculous that I can't argue with my guy over something that legitimately has upset me without that label being attached to me by one of his family members because my fiance gets upset during our argument. (The argument itself wasn't overheard, but his outburst back at me was loud enough for others to hear on his end.)

I thought we were past the days when women were seen as gentle, sweet little flowers that should never show a spot of temper. If I'm angry at my fiance over something he's done to piss me off, I have just as much of a right to express that as he would, without being worried someone doesn't like it enough to stick that label on me. Seriously, if I'm the "C" word for expressing my emotions, people who judge me like that are pretentious assholes.

ETA: It isn't just with me that I've seen it. I've noticed women aren't looked on as favorably for showing emotions such as anger. It's one thing if the emotion makes them cry or be upset otherwise, but to show anger in a similar way as a man (shouting, etc) seems more apt to get a woman pegged with the "C" label. Really frustrating for someone who doesn't censor herself most times, like me. :P
What amazes me is that he allows his family members to call you a cunt. I can't imagine my husband being okay with that.
I really don't think he was, to be honest. Still, it's hard to be having a conversation with one person, trying to regain one's composure, and having some idiot talking to you on your end all at the same time. I'm sure with an outburst like the one he had, he may have been talking to his family last night. And even if not, I'll definitely be letting him know that that's not going to fly.

And if not? Considering how condescending most of these people have been to me recently, I'm not bothered by the label. I'm bothered that I can't be angry in this manner without being labelled, but the fact that this wannabe-condescending asshole stuck it on me amused me. I think I laughed about it off and on for most of last night.
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Post by AnimatedEvey12 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:34 pm

Princess Latona wrote:Okay, so the drama that set this thought off is lengthy, obnoxious, and a bit personal to stick in here, so I'll stick to my ponderings.

Why is it that a man can be legitimately angry or hurt about something and not necessarily get called out severely on it, while a woman who is showing anger is labelled with the "C" word? Seriously, it's really ridiculous that I can't argue with my guy over something that legitimately has upset me without that label being attached to me by one of his family members because my fiance gets upset during our argument. (The argument itself wasn't overheard, but his outburst back at me was loud enough for others to hear on his end.)

I thought we were past the days when women were seen as gentle, sweet little flowers that should never show a spot of temper. If I'm angry at my fiance over something he's done to piss me off, I have just as much of a right to express that as he would, without being worried someone doesn't like it enough to stick that label on me. Seriously, if I'm the "C" word for expressing my emotions, people who judge me like that are pretentious assholes.

ETA: It isn't just with me that I've seen it. I've noticed women aren't looked on as favorably for showing emotions such as anger. It's one thing if the emotion makes them cry or be upset otherwise, but to show anger in a similar way as a man (shouting, etc) seems more apt to get a woman pegged with the "C" label. Really frustrating for someone who doesn't censor herself most times, like me. :P
He called you the 'C' word? I agree with the whole women being gentle and cool. When people see me being mean they are just shocked (especially guys) they're like "OMG I have never seen you angry! I though you weren't that kind of person' -_- Seriously I'm only human.
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Post by Sailormars Obsessed fan » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:10 am

I hate this whole "Getting a baby sitter = bad mother" attitude that seems to be going around these days.

When I was growing up both my parents worked so I was often at day care centers, had baby sitters (both family and hired) and I turned out ok.

Where does this bad mother idea come from all of a sudden? I dont see my mom as having been a bad mother because I had sitters and day care. If anything the fact that she took the time to make sure I was well taken care of when she was unable to do it makes her a good mother.

I swear we are really devolving as a society.
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Re: Double Standards with Women

Post by Garland » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:30 pm

Tiff wrote:As a woman, I often get very, very irritated with other women create double standards for themselves, whether it be to get away with more or to somehow vocalize their "omg newfound womynhood" through the women's civil rights acts and such.

One of them, fo rexample, would be the whole "You can't hit a woman." Why is it always okay for the woman to beat on the man, but the minute he raises a hand to her, the cops haul him off? Too often, i've watched police shows where this happens..the man is BLEEDING because she stabbed him, but yet because she has a scratch on her, he's hauled to the hole. When did this become okay? When did abuse become something that was okay for one sex to do, but not for the other? Personally, I don't think ANYBODY in a relationship should be hitting the other, but if I watched some girl hit Derek, I'd be more than happy to watch him hit her back.

Are men not allowed to defend themselves because the women are supposedly "omg so tiny and delicate?" Bullshit. I'm not tiny and delicate, and while a bigger man could PROBABLY best me in a REAL fight or wrestling match, my fists and nails are still quite capable of hurting him.

Another double standard was realized this morning, while iw as listening to a radio show on the way to work. The male DJ, Tony, was saying how he had a buddy whose wife complained that her husband never did anything around the house, and so until he gave her a day at the spa to thank her, she was going to withhold sex.

The female DJ, Victoria, agreed with the wife.

I wholeheartedly 100% disagreed with both women. Id on't think it's right for EITHER side to withhold anything like that. First of all, it's childish and only serves to treat the person from whom you're withholding as a child. Parents withhold privlidges from CHILDREN,not from spouses.

Derek and I have NEVER done something like that to eachother, and if he did it to me, I'd be upset for two reasons. 1) I'm not a child and 2) =P I like sex just as much as he does, so wtf.

So I called into the show (not something I normally do, but victoria was pissing me off more and more), and basically told them exactly what I just said, and it seemed I was the only woman who thought this action wasn't okay.

So tell me...when did it become okay for women to have such huge double standards for themselves? Are there any other double standards you've noticed with women? Have you ever experienced one and it made you mad/upset?

Discuss!
That's exactly what I've been thinking about all along. The police are biased when it comes to these things. I'm a man, & I surely believe that it's more than men abusing women, but it's actually women who abuse men. A lot more than men abusing women. Plus they get away with it. They will even lie to the police to say that their mates abused them & then it's the man who will go to jail.

Do you know why men don't report them? It's because no person will believe him & will always think that "It's impossible for men to be abused physically by a woman". It's very stupid. Why is it not okay for men to give a woman a black eye or whatever, yet it's okay for women? Is it because that men are physically stronger than women? Women may not be physically stronger than men, but they are capable of committing violence as well. Ever heard of certain objects, like a knife, a baseball bat, or even a gun? They can be just as cunning, violent, & vicious as men. Ever watched the made-for-TV by lifetime called "Men Don't Tell?" That's my point. If abused men try to defend themselves & hit back, then they are accused of hitting a woman. If they even report it or tell someone, no one will believe him &/or will laugh it off. If they don't fight back, then the cycle will continue on. Men are in a no-win situation.

So, I don't believe that women are exactly helpless & defenseless. Why are we treating them like victims? I think that both sexes ought to be treated equally when it comes to things such as this, & crime, as women have been getting away with it a lot or would wind up getting lesser sentences (especially when they're pretty or beautiful), such as having sex with teenagers, robberies, etc, while it's men who get treated harshly & wind up getting harsher sentences for the same crimes & being called all sorts of horrific names. I call it a double standard, plus I would also say that it's sexist at it's finest. It's always been this way, especially when women lie about a lot of things, such as being sexually assaulted, & being raped. That's why we have so many innocent men sitting in prisons for crimes that they didn't commit because of women like them. We need to stop treating them like they can do nothing wrong, plus the police needs to wake up & stop being so biased when it comes to these things.

The only way that I would condone hitting/killing someone is if it happens in self-defense. That's the only way I'll excuse the person from that situation. Otherwise, it shouldn't happen at all. If there's no evidence of self-defense or if they did it willingly, then they should be punished.

I personally do think it's wrong for both genders to put their hands on one another, no matter what the circumstance is. Sorry if that is so long, but it needs to be said. Abuse can also be more than just physical, too. There's also mental & emotional abuse.

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Re: Double Standards with Women

Post by jupiter23 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:06 pm

Garland wrote: That's exactly what I've been thinking about all along. The police are biased when it comes to these things. I'm a man, & I surely believe that it's more than men abusing women, but it's actually women who abuse men. A lot more than men abusing women. Plus they get away with it. They will even lie to the police to say that their mates abused them & then it's the man who will go to jail.

Do you know why men don't report them? It's because no person will believe him & will always think that "It's impossible for men to be abused physically by a woman". It's very stupid. Why is it not okay for men to give a woman a black eye or whatever, yet it's okay for women? Is it because that men are physically stronger than women? Women may not be physically stronger than men, but they are capable of committing violence as well. Ever heard of certain objects, like a knife, a baseball bat, or even a gun? They can be just as cunning, violent, & vicious as men. Ever watched the made-for-TV by lifetime called "Men Don't Tell?" That's my point. If abused men try to defend themselves & hit back, then they are accused of hitting a woman. If they even report it or tell someone, no one will believe him &/or will laugh it off. If they don't fight back, then the cycle will continue on. Men are in a no-win situation.

So, I don't believe that women are exactly helpless & defenseless. Why are we treating them like victims? I think that both sexes ought to be treated equally when it comes to things such as this, & crime, as women have been getting away with it a lot or would wind up getting lesser sentences (especially when they're pretty or beautiful), such as having sex with teenagers, robberies, etc, while it's men who get treated harshly & wind up getting harsher sentences for the same crimes & being called all sorts of horrific names. I call it a double standard, plus I would also say that it's sexist at it's finest. It's always been this way, especially when women lie about a lot of things, such as being sexually assaulted, & being raped. That's why we have so many innocent men sitting in prisons for crimes that they didn't commit because of women like them. We need to stop treating them like they can do nothing wrong, plus the police needs to wake up & stop being so biased when it comes to these things.

The only way that I would condone hitting/killing someone is if it happens in self-defense. That's the only way I'll excuse the person from that situation. Otherwise, it shouldn't happen at all. If there's no evidence of self-defense or if they did it willingly, then they should be punished.

I personally do think it's wrong for both genders to put their hands on one another, no matter what the circumstance is. Sorry if that is so long, but it needs to be said. Abuse can also be more than just physical, too. There's also mental & emotional abuse.
In defense of police, they are almost entirely reactive to domestic situations like the one you describe. If they respond to a domestic violence call, most juristictions require now that someone be arrested, and in most cases it will be the man, because statistically if the man stays, then someone will end up either in the hospital or the morgue. Most of the reason men don't report being abused by a woman is because of the way society tends to make men. Men are supposed to be stronger and more macho, and if they complain about a woman beating them up, it makes them less than a man. Also, most of the laws in place to protect victims are aimed at women, children, and the elderly. It's not that the police don't care about men being abused, it's more that there is virtually no protection for them, and even worse, very few people to listen and help them.
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Post by Tiff » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:45 pm

I have to add that while I agree women shouldn't be excused from domestic violence any more than men, I do highly doubt that "OMG WAY MORE MEN" men are abused by women than the opposite. I just find that very hard to believe. Do you have any sources for such a claim?

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Post by Garland » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:03 am

Tiff wrote:I have to add that while I agree women shouldn't be excused from domestic violence any more than men, I do highly doubt that "OMG WAY MORE MEN" men are abused by women than the opposite. I just find that very hard to believe. Do you have any sources for such a claim?
You can google something like "Statistics of women abusing men", or something like "Battered men statistics." But try these links here for news about it (the first two are very good examples):

http://www.batteredmen.com/
http://www.batteredmen.com/gjdvdata.htm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_ ... abused_men
http://physical-abuse.suite101.com/arti ... c_violence
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/vi ... 4baa1b56ee
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

Not sure about more women abusing men, but there are hints about men being abused by them.

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Post by Tiff » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:30 am

Garland wrote:
Tiff wrote:I have to add that while I agree women shouldn't be excused from domestic violence any more than men, I do highly doubt that "OMG WAY MORE MEN" men are abused by women than the opposite. I just find that very hard to believe. Do you have any sources for such a claim?
You can google something like "Statistics of women abusing men", or something like "Battered men statistics." But try these links here for news about it (the first two are very good examples):

http://www.batteredmen.com/
http://www.batteredmen.com/gjdvdata.htm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_ ... abused_men
http://physical-abuse.suite101.com/arti ... c_violence
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/vi ... 4baa1b56ee
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

Not sure about more women abusing men, but there are hints about men being abused by them.
According to your first source:

"Every year, 1,510,455 women and 834,732 men are victims of physical violence by an intimate"

You just proved my point. The number of men abused by their significant others is still lower than the number of woman. You just contradicted your own point.

I also don't really count WikiAnswers as a reliable source.

My point was never that men aren't abused, period. My point was that I didn't believe for one second that WAY MORE men are abused than women...which you just proved.

Joey: The question is, Rachel, does he like you? ''Cuz if he doesn''t, then it''s all just a moo point.
Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
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Post by Garland » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:16 pm

Tiff wrote:
Garland wrote:
Tiff wrote:I have to add that while I agree women shouldn't be excused from domestic violence any more than men, I do highly doubt that "OMG WAY MORE MEN" men are abused by women than the opposite. I just find that very hard to believe. Do you have any sources for such a claim?
You can google something like "Statistics of women abusing men", or something like "Battered men statistics." But try these links here for news about it (the first two are very good examples):

http://www.batteredmen.com/
http://www.batteredmen.com/gjdvdata.htm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_ ... abused_men
http://physical-abuse.suite101.com/arti ... c_violence
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/vi ... 4baa1b56ee
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

Not sure about more women abusing men, but there are hints about men being abused by them.
According to your first source:

"Every year, 1,510,455 women and 834,732 men are victims of physical violence by an intimate"

You just proved my point. The number of men abused by their significant others is still lower than the number of women. You just contradicted your own point.

I also don't really count WikiAnswers as a reliable source.

My point was never that men aren't abused, period. My point was that I didn't believe for one second that WAY MORE men are abused than women...which you just proved.
That was according to a Nov. 2000 Department of Justice report on the National Violence Against Women Survey.
I do see what you mean by that, though. It was just a feeling that I had that more men were being abused by women because men just don't report it often, that's all.

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Post by Tiff » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:30 pm

Garland wrote:
That was according to a Nov. 2000 Department of Justice report on the National Violence Against Women Survey.
That's nice. It still disproves your theory.

I do see what you mean by that, though. It was just a feeling that I had that more men were being abused by women because men just don't report it often, that's all.
That line of thinking really doesn't make sense, though. I mean, factually speaking, men ARE typically physically stronger than women. It's just fact. And while women can also be possessive and controlling, men exert this behavior differently. Women and men aren't the same, and it's stupid when people try to behave as though they are. They aren't. So it's no surprise that more men are the abusers.

Either way, I do agree that neither should tolerate abuse from anybody. I would hope that if any of my guy friends were being abused, that they'd tell somebody and put a stop to it.

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Post by AnimatedEvey12 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:49 pm

So something that has been pissing me off is this: Why is it if a man is an alcoholic it's OMG bad and when a woman who is it's just like...whatever?

Example: This girl was telling me how she and her boyfriend broke up so they decided to spill what annoyed them about each other. He tells her "Well, you're an alcoholic" and then she gets all pissed at him and told him that he just doesn't know how to have fun.

Okay....when was this okay? This whole let's just let women be alcoholics but if men are OMG THEY HAVE TO AA MEETINGS!
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Post by laffinizluv » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:00 pm

AnimatedEvey12 wrote:So something that has been pissing me off is this: Why is it if a man is an alcoholic it's OMG bad and when a woman who is it's just like...whatever?

Example: This girl was telling me how she and her boyfriend broke up so they decided to spill what annoyed them about each other. He tells her "Well, you're an alcoholic" and then she gets all pissed at him and told him that he just doesn't know how to have fun.

Okay....when was this okay? This whole let's just let women be alcoholics but if men are OMG THEY HAVE TO AA MEETINGS!

Alcoholism is a serious condition for ANYONE. Honestly I do not not know what you're refering to when you say it's okay for a woman to be an alcoholic because I have never met anyone that has believed that.

I think in general that men with alcohol issues tend to be more violent and assertive when under the influence as opposed to women who I would generally imagine are giddy or just dopey when drunk but even then that's just an observation.

Speaking from personal experience, both of my parents were/are alcoholics and both of them act very different under the influence. My father, who is now deceased, was a very angry drunk and typical would go on a binge streak every few months. My mother drinks daily to the point of intoxication and is typically very nonchalant or very emotional, almost never angry or aggressive.

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Post by Tiff » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:11 am

laffinizluv wrote:

Alcoholism is a serious condition for ANYONE. Honestly I do not not know what you're refering to when you say it's okay for a woman to be an alcoholic because I have never met anyone that has believed that.
I know exactly what she's referring to. A lot of people regard young women who drink a lot with a flippant and nonchalant air, because they come off as glamorous and fun-loving partiers. When men drink, however, people view them as idiots.

I think in general that men with alcohol issues tend to be more violent and assertive when under the influence as opposed to women who I would generally imagine are giddy or just dopey when drunk but even then that's just an observation.
I disagree. After watching shows like Cops and Most Shocking, I've found that drunk women are FAR more brutal and vicious than drunk men.

Joey: The question is, Rachel, does he like you? ''Cuz if he doesn''t, then it''s all just a moo point.
Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
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Post by Rin » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:42 am

Tiff wrote:
laffinizluv wrote:

Alcoholism is a serious condition for ANYONE. Honestly I do not not know what you're refering to when you say it's okay for a woman to be an alcoholic because I have never met anyone that has believed that.
I know exactly what she's referring to. A lot of people regard young women who drink a lot with a flippant and nonchalant air, because they come off as glamorous and fun-loving partiers. When men drink, however, people view them as idiots.

I think in general that men with alcohol issues tend to be more violent and assertive when under the influence as opposed to women who I would generally imagine are giddy or just dopey when drunk but even then that's just an observation.
I disagree. After watching shows like Cops and Most Shocking, I've found that drunk women are FAR more brutal and vicious than drunk men.
I've also heard from a cop I know that violent women are often more difficult to handle than violent men because they scratch, kick, and bite where as men mostly just use their hands and arms. He once told a story where a woman nearly gauged out another cops eye.
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