Double Standards with Women

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Sat May 26, 2007 2:43 pm

After thinking about my comment inm the homosexality thread, I really stopped to think about a big double standard I see. people focus on gays being wrong because of their sexual choices. But being gay to me is not always about sex. It just seems the more carnal aspects of being homosexual are focused on for moral arguments and if that is the case should not all carnal acts straight or gay be lumped together? sodomy is not a male on male sexual act only, I dont see heated debates on news casts by moralists about straight couples who engage in those antics. And to me I feel its because what goes on behind closed doors of straight relationships are more respected and it makes no sense.

Lets face it if you have experiance in sexual relations for the most part, anything that is kinky, or enjoyable about it is morally wrong and the more fun sex is the wronger it is. If poeple are going to laud gays for what they may or may not do in their own private sexual affairs (and I have several gay friends who are virgins still) everyones private sexual antics should be held to the same standards. If people are having sex even married without doing it to procreate why are they not being blasted? It just seems to be a true double standard, if its private for straights it should be private for gays and without the sexual focus, being gay is not a big issue, because only those who go out to be flamboyant about it to bring attention to themselves are what the stereotypes are for. I think people would be suprized how many gay men and women share their same conservative views, go to church, pay taxes and try to live a semi normal life in a world that cannot accept them.


And I know this is about double standards with women mostly but thats another thing ive noticed, macho men will not balk about seeing two women kissing and showing affection in fact its a turn on to them. But if two males show affection its gross. It just boggles me how people say "gay" is wrong but ive noticed only "male gayness" seems wronger to most.
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Post by denizenofevil » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:43 pm

Tiff wrote:
Senshi_of_Vision wrote:Man this is an issue that bothers me as much as "token" replacements in movies. I always personally hated things that "separate" men from women such as standards like woman are weak and frail and cannot handle things men can or that we are overly emotional so we should be cut slack on things.

But the worst example of double standards Ive seen that truly burns me is the issue with women who purposely go after young boys that they are in care of or teach. Now ive seen male teachers that have been let go for making comments that seemed lewd to some. Yet ive blantantly heard men and women joke about how its no big deal about the women who have been busted having sex with minor boys. Im sorry but just like an older man with a teenage girl I think an older woman with a boy can have as much psychological damage done to the teen. And it bugs me when I hear anyone say that "its not as bad." yes it is bad and sickening that people joke about such a serious topic.

I watched a comedy show on abc a few weeks ago that made light of such a subject. I know they tried to convey a serious side to it but it was only coming from the mothers point of view, where as the father treated it like it was no big deal. A sexual offender is an offender period and it should not matter if she is a female or "hot" its still wrong. And its sad how many people dont see it as a problem when it clearly is. And as mom I cant help to worry what kind a world my kid is growing up in where anyone can feel its okay for an adult to persue an underage teen no matter what sex they are.
I never truly understood that, either...I mean, a pedophile is a pedophile, but for some reason it seems some people make lighter of teen boys with adult women than teen girls with adult men. Both are equally creepy and gross.
As for the with holding sex, I agree with Tiff. I do not think its a proper tactic to work out any relationship problem. In fact to me it will cause more problems in the long run. IMO talking is the best way to solve conflict in a relationship period. And if your partner wont talk with you or is stubborn then maybe the relationship is the problem itself and holding sex wont help either way.
And hell, think of this way: If some woman wants to withhold sex for weeks from her husband/boyfriend/SO, don't be fucking surprised if he cheats on you and gets it elsewhere. Using sex as a weapon is just plain stupid.
You have very good points there but i would have to disagree with you on the withholding sex thing. Think about it. If you were mad at your boyfriend or whatever, i don't think you would be thinking about having sex with him at that moment. and I don't agree with saying that the woman shouldn't be surprised if the man cheats on her because of it. There isn't a good reason to cheat on your partner.

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Post by Starscream » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:52 pm

denizenofevil wrote:
Tiff wrote:
Senshi_of_Vision wrote:Man this is an issue that bothers me as much as "token" replacements in movies. I always personally hated things that "separate" men from women such as standards like woman are weak and frail and cannot handle things men can or that we are overly emotional so we should be cut slack on things.

But the worst example of double standards Ive seen that truly burns me is the issue with women who purposely go after young boys that they are in care of or teach. Now ive seen male teachers that have been let go for making comments that seemed lewd to some. Yet ive blantantly heard men and women joke about how its no big deal about the women who have been busted having sex with minor boys. Im sorry but just like an older man with a teenage girl I think an older woman with a boy can have as much psychological damage done to the teen. And it bugs me when I hear anyone say that "its not as bad." yes it is bad and sickening that people joke about such a serious topic.

I watched a comedy show on abc a few weeks ago that made light of such a subject. I know they tried to convey a serious side to it but it was only coming from the mothers point of view, where as the father treated it like it was no big deal. A sexual offender is an offender period and it should not matter if she is a female or "hot" its still wrong. And its sad how many people dont see it as a problem when it clearly is. And as mom I cant help to worry what kind a world my kid is growing up in where anyone can feel its okay for an adult to persue an underage teen no matter what sex they are.
I never truly understood that, either...I mean, a pedophile is a pedophile, but for some reason it seems some people make lighter of teen boys with adult women than teen girls with adult men. Both are equally creepy and gross.
As for the with holding sex, I agree with Tiff. I do not think its a proper tactic to work out any relationship problem. In fact to me it will cause more problems in the long run. IMO talking is the best way to solve conflict in a relationship period. And if your partner wont talk with you or is stubborn then maybe the relationship is the problem itself and holding sex wont help either way.
And hell, think of this way: If some woman wants to withhold sex for weeks from her husband/boyfriend/SO, don't be fucking surprised if he cheats on you and gets it elsewhere. Using sex as a weapon is just plain stupid.
You have very good points there but i would have to disagree with you on the withholding sex thing. Think about it. If you were mad at your boyfriend or whatever, i don't think you would be thinking about having sex with him at that moment. and I don't agree with saying that the woman shouldn't be surprised if the man cheats on her because of it. There isn't a good reason to cheat on your partner.
She's not talking about not having sex "at the moment"; she's referring to using sex as a weapon, as in "I'm mad at you/want something done, so no sex until it happens." Far different argument there.
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Post by Tiff » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:13 pm

Starscream wrote: She's not talking about not having sex "at the moment"; she's referring to using sex as a weapon, as in "I'm mad at you/want something done, so no sex until it happens." Far different argument there.
Exactly.

I'm talking about using sex as a means to get something done/getting what you want. "I'M NOT GONNA HAVE SEX WITH YOU UNTIL YOU TAKE OUT THE GARBAGE". That's what I'm talking about.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:36 pm

denizenofevil wrote: You have very good points there but i would have to disagree with you on the withholding sex thing. Think about it. If you were mad at your boyfriend or whatever, i don't think you would be thinking about having sex with him at that moment. and I don't agree with saying that the woman shouldn't be surprised if the man cheats on her because of it. There isn't a good reason to cheat on your partner.

Hmm first off you would be suprize how many couples engage in sex after a fight. They do not call it "make up sex" for no reason. And the whole point Tiff and myself in those quotes were trying to make is if a woman uses sex as a bargaining tool or weapon shed better not be suprized if her man goes to someone who wont be so stingy with the loving. And the same goes for men who try to do that to their women to. Its not right to cheat thats right but if your in a commited relationship and you feel necessary to use such a childish tactic instead of communication to get what you need done, then dont be suprized if your partner wanders is my feelings on it.

And trust me as someone who has been cheated on even though I never used such tactics (married the wrong person I guess) I do feel cheating is wrong but it happens and all we can do at times is deal with it and hope it doesnt happen again.
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Post by Queen Of Hearts » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:11 pm

I recently came across a Anti-Ecchi/fanservice club at a site I go to.For those of you who don't know Ecchi is just like fanservice. The random 'boob in your face' moments, as I call 'em.

I thought that they had good resons to hate it so I browsed. I've never been so wrong in my life.

I may by exageratting but the whole thing is 'OMG!! IT IS WRONG FOR A MAN TOO LUST AFTER A WOMAAAAN!!!!!11111!! NOOO!!!'

Um...and women don't do the same thing...?
They also say fanserivce is disrepectful to women that men veiw them as a object.....
Women don't do the same damn thing..??

I used to disagree with this topic heavily. Now I agree fully.
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Post by denizenofevil » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:29 pm

"And the whole point Tiff and myself in those quotes were trying to make is if a woman uses sex as a bargaining tool or weapon shed better not be suprized if her man goes to someone who wont be so stingy with the loving. Its not right to cheat thats right but if your in a commited relationship and you feel necessary to use such a childish tactic instead of communication to get what you need done, then dont be suprized if your partner wanders is my feelings on it."


That's actually what i find disturbing... I get the point but i just don't agree with it. It's probably just me but for some reason, with all due respect, i can't get over those words. I do agree that the couple should be communicating instead but i feel that if a couple were in a committed relationship, they should be remaining faithful and try to work it out instead of immediately looking for another girl to do it with. Oh, sorry... i'm off topic... I do agree with you guys on the whole withholding sex is immature thing but i dont' think it warrants cheating.

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Post by NameGoesHere » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:45 am

I agree with denizenofevil.

There is no good reason to cheat. If the woman is using sex for blackmail, or if the arguing/alienation is constant, then he should leave the harpy. But cheating should never be expected or condoned in any circumstance.
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Post by Tiff » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:58 pm

NameGoesHere wrote:I agree with denizenofevil.

There is no good reason to cheat. If the woman is using sex for blackmail, or if the arguing/alienation is constant, then he should leave the harpy. But cheating should never be expected or condoned in any circumstance.
I certainly never meant that there is a justification for cheating. I was talking in a pure sarcastic sense, but never would I actually think that it's okay for someone to cheat on someone else, regardless of the reason.

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Post by Passions55 » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:13 am

you know...I really find women to be more sexiest toward women than men are toward women. And it works both ways. There are some overly girly-girls out there that scoff and ridicule another girl for doing "guy" stuff. Or are so in touch with their "whore" side as I like to call that they rather use their sex appeal to get ahead than their own brains and act like you are stupid for not doing the same.

Then there are the girls that are so into being independent and "strong" that they look down and sneer at girls who don't mind admitting they need help with lifting a heavy object, or asking how a certain piece of machinery works.

I work in retail and there is a lot of physical labor involved, and for the most part and am perfectly capable of handling the heavy stuff. However I know what my physical limits are and I don't feel that asking for assistance (even if its a guy) is playing "the helpless female card". I got pretty annoyed with a female co-worker a few days ago because there was customer that wanted a 24 inch bike off the very top of the bike rack. I know that I am incapable of getting those down by my self because I've very nearly injured my self once a few time when I tried. I'm not strong enough. Well I was going to ask a back room stock-man to get it down for me when a female co-worker came by and was like "You can't get that on your own?" and I said no, and she was like oh please stop being a girly girl you really can't get that on your own? and To show me up she went on the ladder and got it down for me and made a big show of it trying to make me feel bad. Then after wards she said "that was not heavy I could handle it"

And I looked her and the eye and I said "well good for you. Your strong enough to handle but I know I'm not, and I'm not going to bust my back trying to be super woman." And that's exactly how I feel. I didn't appreciate this bitch insinuating that I'm weak or lazy just because I'm not as physically strong as she is.

And about the double standard of girls can hit boys but boys can't hit girl, and that its not fair for a guy not to hit a girl if she hits him? Well this is a gray area. I know plenty of guys where I live that has no problem hitting a girl back if they hit them first...the thing is I notice that a lot of these guys actually antagonize the girl in these situations and use their size to intimidate to let the girl know that if they hit them that they'll get hit back. There is this one guy that I know and he likes to run his mouth alot and say very fucked up things just to get a rise of his girlfriends. Well this one instance he is his girl friend had an argument and he just kept flinging insults at her and finally he called her a c*nt and she slapped him in the mouth, and he responded by punching her in the face and gave her a black eye. Now I'm sorry but I know that this instance the girl hit first, but if a guy is going to provoke that sort of response I don't think it fair to use "she hit me first" card when he provoked the situation. The whole A guy should have every right to hit a girl if she hits me is...a bit a controversy.
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Post by Rin » Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:29 pm

I have to agree with you Anime bitch. I hate it when other woman look down at another woman because she may be physically weaker than her. Or the one's that flaunt at how much stronger they are than other women and how they don't need men to help them with things. *rollseyes*

I also find it annoying when other women critisize those who choose to stay home and raise their children calling them anti feminist. Well it seems more anti feminist saying that a woman can't choose to stay home and must go to work even if her husband makes enough money to support them both, or they choose not to live an extravagant lifestyle. And staying home and raising kids can be a lot harder than actually going to work everyday.
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Post by Tiff » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:42 pm

Rin wrote:
I also find it annoying when other women critisize those who choose to stay home and raise their children calling them anti feminist. Well it seems more anti feminist saying that a woman can't choose to stay home and must go to work even if her husband makes enough money to support them both, or they choose not to live an extravagant lifestyle. And staying home and raising kids can be a lot harder than actually going to work everyday.
That pisses me off so badly.

Last I checked, Feminism was about CHOICE. It's my choice to either be a homemaker/stay at home mom, or to continue with my career. Joe and I are planning on me being a stay at home mom until our children are school aged, and I'm thrilled about the idea.

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Post by Neon Heart » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:35 am

Rin wrote:I also find it annoying when other women critisize those who choose to stay home and raise their children calling them anti feminist. Well it seems more anti feminist saying that a woman can't choose to stay home and must go to work even if her husband makes enough money to support them both, or they choose not to live an extravagant lifestyle. And staying home and raising kids can be a lot harder than actually going to work everyday.
There's a word for that: hypocritical. No other person has the right to step into someone else's life and tell them what to do, if they should go out and work, stay at home, ect.

There's also another word for all those who are hypocritical like that: STFU (yes, that's now a word)!
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Post by Tiff » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:31 am

Neon Heart wrote: STFU (yes, that's now a word)!
This is nothing new. I pronounce it as "STIFFU" all the time. XD

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Post by SeiUsa » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:15 am

Tiff wrote:This is nothing new. I pronounce it as "STIFFU" all the time. XD
*points* I see Tiffu!!

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:25 am

Im a stay at home mom albeit I work part time at times and I enjoyed the work force before I became a mom it always did trouble me how hard women can be on each other, and to me its become worst since ive become a mother. People especially other moms expect you to be perfect. You get told you should breastfeed, or you should use certain things. And god forbid if your not "conventional" then you have to hear that "shes not like other moms." its a sickening trend. So what I let my kid run around in a diaper and play in the mud, ya know what? I did that to. And I did breast feed but I dont like the fact that people try to cram it down others throats when some women cant. Its like some females have to flaunt how perfect they are and its sickening.

Now at 5'4 weight not going to mention I maybe short but I can do alot of heavy lifting, do I flaunt it? heck no and there are times specially when im around my big guy friends that I let them do the work. I dont think theres anything wrong with my own way of acting feminine and I wish more women would do so instead of constantly trying to one up each other.
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Post by Tiff » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:05 pm

SeiUsa wrote:
*points* I see Tiffu!!
Exactly. XD

Im a stay at home mom albeit I work part time at times and I enjoyed the work force before I became a mom it always did trouble me how hard women can be on each other, and to me its become worst since ive become a mother. People especially other moms expect you to be perfect. You get told you should breastfeed, or you should use certain things. And god forbid if your not "conventional" then you have to hear that "shes not like other moms." its a sickening trend. So what I let my kid run around in a diaper and play in the mud, ya know what? I did that to. And I did breast feed but I dont like the fact that people try to cram it down others throats when some women cant. Its like some females have to flaunt how perfect they are and its sickening.
I hate that so many women are so hard on other women, too, especially mothers. It's amazing how competetive and such mothers are to eachother. They feel the need to criticize eachother constantly. Look, if one mother doesn't want to breastfeed, why does it bother someone else so much?! You're doing what you want for YOUR child, why the hell arey ou so worried about someone else's? It's quite asinine, really.

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Post by Passions55 » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:24 am

I have some mixed feelings about the stay at home mom/wife thing. I agree that feminism is about choice and the reason for the whole feminism movement was to give women the choice to be able to go out of the home and function in society as an equal human being with a man and not be kept like a glorified slave...but, I don't know. I under stand that there are issues in the home when you expand your family and one parent has to stay at home for a while to raise the baby. I guess I hedge a little bit that it always has to be the woman that's expected to put her job/career on hold in order to do it. Not that i think that raising a baby is an inferior position to having a career its just I would like to think that in the 21 century that we as a society have come to point where "jobs" both out side and inside the home would have lost there designated "gender" label.

My older sister has a friend and she has a very good career as a X-Ray Technician she makes good money. So does her husband who is a College Professor. When they had their baby originally she was going to stay home with the baby but she was given a promotion at work so she decided to stay working even though she had a new born, so the father decided to to at home to be with the baby till its old enough to enter school and put aside his career for a while. And honest to God you wouldn't believe the criticism and bad talk My older sisters friend has had to deal with! Like she is a bad mother for choosing her career over her new born and how she can ask her husband who is supposed to be the main source of income to stay at home with the baby. She has had people say to her face that she is selfish and that she is emasculating her husband and women like her shouldn't be allowed to raise children. Now why the hell should she put up with this sort of criticism just because her and her husband are being a little unorthodox? If it was her husband that was taking a promotion even though he has a new born every one would be congratulating him for bringing in more money to support his family. But since its the wife doing it she is a unnatural woman and a horrible mother. I don't think her personal choices make her a bad mother. But seriously though do you think personally that she is in the wrong here?
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Post by Tiff » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:39 am

Passions55 wrote:I guess I hedge a little bit that it always has to be the woman that's expected to put her job/career on hold in order to do it. Not that i think that raising a baby is an inferior position to having a career its just I would like to think that in the 21 century that we as a society have come to point where "jobs" both out side and inside the home would have lost there designated "gender" label.
Mmm, i'm not sure how right you are about that. More and more fathers are becoming the ones to stay at home. As more women enter the career field (and stay in their careers), more fathers are choosing to stay at home and be the homemaker. It isn't like the 50's-80's, where it was always the woman, or even EXPECTED to be the woman.

Hell, just last week my fiancee and I ran into a couple who had infant twins...and the wife traveled and worked all week, and the father stayed home.

My older sister has a friend and she has a very good career as a X-Ray Technician she makes good money. So does her husband who is a College Professor. When they had their baby originally she was going to stay home with the baby but she was given a promotion at work so she decided to stay working even though she had a new born, so the father decided to to at home to be with the baby till its old enough to enter school and put aside his career for a while. And honest to God you wouldn't believe the criticism and bad talk My older sisters friend has had to deal with! Like she is a bad mother for choosing her career over her new born and how she can ask her husband who is supposed to be the main source of income to stay at home with the baby. She has had people say to her face that she is selfish and that she is emasculating her husband and women like her shouldn't be allowed to raise children. Now why the hell should she put up with this sort of criticism just because her and her husband are being a little unorthodox? If it was her husband that was taking a promotion even though he has a new born every one would be congratulating him for bringing in more money to support his family. But since its the wife doing it she is a unnatural woman and a horrible mother. I don't think her personal choices make her a bad mother. But seriously though do you think personally that she is in the wrong here?
*Nods* and see, it goes both ways. A woman who chooses to continue working shouldn't be put down or looked down upon for making this choice. ALL women have the right to choose whether they want to work or stay at home, and neither choice makes them a bad person or a bad mother.

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Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:15 am

I agree I think if my situation had been abit different and I was still with my old career and husband, that if I felt the need to continue to work that kind of arangement would have worked perfectly. Im not old fashion in the least or a radical feminist but the fact of the matter was the field I worked in paid better money then my husbands job did, so that situation would have probably been the best if things had worked out that way.

I love that things didnt work out that way though. I like being able to be there for my son threw his milestones and I believe if you can stay at home and want to go on and do it. But if you cant or you really want to work and provide an income for your family and your situation can allow you to work go on. Its your life, Ive posted that in forums for babytalk and other mommy blog groups. I dont see why we women allow ourselves to be molded into roles that were fine half a century ago.

I think alot of older people are culprits of this. My grandmother though she worked most of her life still scoffs at stay at home dads. I just think alot of the older generation like to hang on to some of their ways and it bleeds into nowadays which isnt always bad but can be a pain in the rear at times.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




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