Immigration

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Post by Tiff » Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:30 am

AnimeGuru0 wrote:Ok, i will try and make my opinion as short as possible.

Minimum wage = bad. I agree with asteroid.

Immigration = good, or rather, I have no problem with it.

Illegal immigration is bad too, i guess, but that's not the immigrants fault moreso than it's our own government's fault. They're so inconsistant and...........our immigration policies are just a horrible mess. I'm pro securing our borders first before we do ANYTHING, so that no more illegal immigrants can enter the country, that way it's fair for ALL immigrants (it's not fair that someone in wales has to wait 5 years to come here while someone in mexico just has to cross the border).

So what about the illegal immigrants already here? I'm completely 100% for giving them legal status in the country here. Why? They're already here, they're not leaving, they're not paying taxes, and they're using OUR taxpayer money for services. That's not fair, right, or smart. Give them legal status so they have to pay taxes, so they don't have to worry about deportation, and they can live happy normal lives here.

I cringe at the "ROUND UP ALL THE IMMIGRANTS AND SEND THEM HOME" argument. It's just not realistic in the sense of 1 - We couldn't possibly round them all up and send them all home, just wouldn't work, 2 - even if we COULD, if we did that our economy would COLLAPSE. Believe it or not, our economy relies on these immigrants: AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

Yay capitalism!!! =D!!!
Again, I have no problem with immigration in general. And my problem with illegal immigration lies within the same as you: our government's inability to consistantly regulate it.

I am torn on the "giving them citizenship" thing, becuase of my argument from before. Why should some people have to work and pay for it, while others get it for free? That's hardly fair. In fact, it's bullshit. But on the other hand, it WOULD be the easier thing to do..but easy isn't always fair.

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Post by AnimeGuru0 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:34 pm

Tiff wrote:
Again, I have no problem with immigration in general. And my problem with illegal immigration lies within the same as you: our government's inability to consistantly regulate it.

I am torn on the "giving them citizenship" thing, becuase of my argument from before. Why should some people have to work and pay for it, while others get it for free? That's hardly fair. In fact, it's bullshit. But on the other hand, it WOULD be the easier thing to do..but easy isn't always fair.
Not citizenship, but legal status. And yes, it might not be fair, but that's our government's fault moreso than the illegal immigrants. They just LET them walk across the border *shakes head* That's why I think securing the border should be #1 priority so that most things in the FUTURE regarding immigration is fair.

And again, these illegals are here, they're not leaving, we don't have the resources to MAKE them leave, and even if we did it'd ruin our economy, so MIGHT AS WELL make them legal so they can pay taxes. Really, that's the best solution i see, far from perfect, but that's because our government has really dropped the ball considering this issue (and has been for decades)

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Post by Tiff » Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:36 pm

AnimeGuru0 wrote:
Not citizenship, but legal status. And yes, it might not be fair, but that's our government's fault moreso than the illegal immigrants. They just LET them walk across the border *shakes head* That's why I think securing the border should be #1 priority so that most things in the FUTURE regarding immigration is fair.

And again, these illegals are here, they're not leaving, we don't have the resources to MAKE them leave, and even if we did it'd ruin our economy, so MIGHT AS WELL make them legal so they can pay taxes. Really, that's the best solution i see, far from perfect, but that's because our government has really dropped the ball considering this issue (and has been for decades)
*Nods* Oh, don't get me wrong. What you're saying makes sense, believe me, I agree on that. No, they aren't leavin ganytime soon, not that I can blame him...our country has made them too comfortable. They have secure jobs, their children are in schools, they have homes and cars and electricity and plumbing. I wouldn't leave, either, if all of that was a luxury to me.

It just irritates me that our country/government let this get outof hand, and THEN decided to get up in arms about it. And it REALLY irritates me how unfair this is, becuase I watch my friend struggle to get her husband citizenship, but these people may not have to struggle at all.

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Post by SeiUsa » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:28 pm

The idea of building a wall all across the border is, I think, just plain stupid. For one thing, it will just be another Berlin Wall. And second, they're eventually going to come in with hammers or whatever they bring and smash it down, and that would just be a waste of our dollars. (And more security guards won't help, because we already know how sucky they are NOW).
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Post by yoshmaster5 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:42 pm

Yeah... really, the entire country didn't care at first, but then went insane when this is FAR out of our control... as has been said. A lot of policies that appear in politics won't do ANYTHING good. People will shoot them down, and nothing gets done. That's what always happened with major things like immigration. Heck, I'm all for what Bob said, except fot he minimum wage thing. What we need to do is RAISE it. 5.50 an hour/week/WHATEVER is not enough to feed a family on. Raise it, I don't care how much, just DO IT.
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Post by Sailorasteroid » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:00 pm

yoshmaster5 wrote:Yeah... really, the entire country didn't care at first, but then went insane when this is FAR out of our control... as has been said. A lot of policies that appear in politics won't do ANYTHING good. People will shoot them down, and nothing gets done. That's what always happened with major things like immigration. Heck, I'm all for what Bob said, except fot he minimum wage thing. What we need to do is RAISE it. 5.50 an hour/week/WHATEVER is not enough to feed a family on. Raise it, I don't care how much, just DO IT.
The problem is that raising the minimum wage is going to entice more employers to hire off the books to save money. It's going to force some businesses to be short-staffed because they simply can't afford to keep on all their low-level employees at those wages. Or it might even cause some businesses to close down.

And you can live on minimum wage. You may not be able to live *well*, but you can live. It means you may have to live within walking distance of your job instead of buying a car. It means husband and wife may both have to work, and if there are children, that they may have to work alternating shifts. You may have to forego television and cellular phones. You may have to buy seperate ingredients for food instead of the prepackaged dinners. You may have to sew instead of buying new clothes. You may even have to consider delaying having your children.

Furthermore, no one has a minimum wage career. Almost all employers have annual raises, and even if they don't, you should be working hard enough to earn one, or to get a better job. You can learn a skilled trade and earn much more than minimum wage. That's how it's been done for a long time. It's not necessarily a happy life, but you get by and try to make things better for your children.
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Post by AnimeGuru0 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:04 pm

Sailorasteroid wrote:
yoshmaster5 wrote:Yeah... really, the entire country didn't care at first, but then went insane when this is FAR out of our control... as has been said. A lot of policies that appear in politics won't do ANYTHING good. People will shoot them down, and nothing gets done. That's what always happened with major things like immigration. Heck, I'm all for what Bob said, except fot he minimum wage thing. What we need to do is RAISE it. 5.50 an hour/week/WHATEVER is not enough to feed a family on. Raise it, I don't care how much, just DO IT.
The problem is that raising the minimum wage is going to entice more employers to hire off the books to save money. It's going to force some businesses to be short-staffed because they simply can't afford to keep on all their low-level employees at those wages. Or it might even cause some businesses to close down.

And you can live on minimum wage. You may not be able to live *well*, but you can live. It means you may have to live within walking distance of your job instead of buying a car. It means husband and wife may both have to work, and if there are children, that they may have to work alternating shifts. You may have to forego television and cellular phones. You may have to buy seperate ingredients for food instead of the prepackaged dinners. You may have to sew instead of buying new clothes. You may even have to consider delaying having your children.

Furthermore, no one has a minimum wage career. Almost all employers have annual raises, and even if they don't, you should be working hard enough to earn one, or to get a better job. You can learn a skilled trade and earn much more than minimum wage. That's how it's been done for a long time. It's not necessarily a happy life, but you get by and try to make things better for your children.
Add to the fact a higher minimum wage encourages companies to outsource and give american jobs to people living in other countries who will work for considerably less. Also, raising the minimum wage increases costs for a company significantly, meaning less profits for that company and thus less growth. No growth = no new jobs, which is what our economy needs to stay really healthy. Add to the fact that some companies, to compensate for these higher costs, will raise prices only will add fuel to the inflation rate we have. Basically, in the extremely short term raising the minimum wage is ok, but in the long term it is really bad.

Think about it this way, we have an open, capitalistic market which automatically adjusts itself due to forces imposed on it. It's called economics. If we raise the minimum wage to let's say 6 dollars an hour, when it is 5.25 now (hypothetically, i don't know what the real min. wage is currently), then the market is automatically going to adjust itself and make that 6 dollars an hour worth the 5.25 we are making today, making the raise completely ineffective and useless.

Basically, I'm a huge capitalist, and the whole concept of the minimum wage is so against capitalism it's ridiculous.

But man, that was SOOOO off topic. Back on topic:

SeiUsa - The analogy of a wall along the border of mexico and the berlin wall is flawed, they wouldn't be the same thing at all. The Berlin Wall split a country in two that didn't really want to be split, one side prospered while the other one didn't. The US and Mexico were never one country. It's not the same. Now if a wall was made splitting the US east and west of the mississippi that would be one thing, but this is totally different.

It would be much more comparable to the Great Wall of China, and I don't see anyone breaking that wall down. Definately not a perfect analogy (GW of China was made to protect China from invasion) but much better than the Berlin Wall, which served a totally different purpose.

And yes, more border agents WOULD be a good thing. The problem we have now is that our agents are practically non-existant. 5 agents for the entire stretch of arizona isn't going to cut it.

Although I'm not sure if a wall would be the answer (it might, it might not be). But the border does need to become secure somehow. Also, an extra tidbit, there already IS a wall between mexico and america, several hundred miles of it, and fence as well. However it's not monitored at all for the most part.

I'm rambling >.>; sorry I just woke up from a nap >.>;;;;

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Post by SeiUsa » Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:11 pm

Well, the problem with most of security guards is that illigeal immigrants are actually paying them so that they can come to the US. That's what's fucked up about the security.
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Post by Kameko » Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:14 pm

The current federal minimum wage is $5.15. States, however, do not have to follow the federal minimum wage. It can be higher, lower or they can have none at all.

List of state minimum wages
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Post by AnimeGuru0 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:38 pm

SeiUsa wrote:Well, the problem with most of security guards is that illigeal immigrants are actually paying them so that they can come to the US. That's what's fucked up about the security.
Hmm, that's quite possible that some do that, but I also know many immigrants get caught and sent back 2 or 3 times before they actually make it across. Our border patrol and INS services (especially INS) suck =\

Kameko thanks for posting that, very interesting ^^

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Post by smfan423 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:20 pm

Actually, someone calculated the cost of rounding up all of these illegal aliens and it was just over a billion dollars. Also, if no one is willing to hire them then they aren't going to be too comfortable now are they. But the only way to keep people from hiring them is to set up a way to check on employers to see if they are hiring legal employees (and if they are hiring illegals then it is jail time, significant jail time-nothing else)

Also two layers of tall concrete wall is far better then any fence. All you need are motion sensors and other automated security devices with some troops and agents to respond. Then most of the remaining border agents guard the openings in the two ways. A similar method was used with San Diego ("Duncan Hunters' wall") and it reduced illegal traffic from thousands of trucks (per year) down to a handful a month which are easily caught. Walls work period.

We also definitely need a higher minimum wage because without that businesses turn into the plantations of old--economic slavery is running rampant in America already right under our noses. The +80% of Americans need this protection to live. Also, wealth is becoming rediculously improportionant. Just look at the paychecks of CEOs (including those of oil companies). *And I won't even get into the extreme gas gauging going on*

And I have to interject this: our economy will collapse no matter what happens with all the illegal immigrants. Outsourcing and free trade is the real economic problem. The more jobs outsourced, the fewer jobs there are here in America. Further, without middle-class wages there is no middle-class and that means significantly fewer consumers to buy all those goods made in China and Korea and the rest of Asia and then profits steadily drop leading to economic collapse. Also, the economy cannot adjust when the people making the goods are not even in the same economy as the consumers of the goods. And another thing, don't just up and trust what the government says when it comes to the job market (esp. with the unemployment rate which is based on how many people are drawing unemployment benefits-which lasts only 9 weeks in Alabama-and not on the number of people looking for work but don't have a job) I wouldn't be suprised to find 16% unemployment rate based on the number of people looking for work.

Also, I have to note that people with college degrees can't find work. Now this is a racist issue. It seems like the only employed electrical engineers in America are Indians. I know someone who has looked for over a year for an EE job and he has a Masters in the stuff with spectacular grades. He has also found sites and forums online with other EEs (some with even with experience) and can't find a job yet they state their Indian classmates have gotten jobs. This is just one example of outsourcing (note most of these Indians are from Indian).

Oh, and on a final word: check out Lou Dobbs, CNN, 5:00 pm CST. He speaks the truth plainly with facts to back him up. Just check it out.

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Post by AnimeGuru0 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:51 am

smfan423 wrote:Actually, someone calculated the cost of rounding up all of these illegal aliens and it was just over a billion dollars.
.....................I hardly believe that "just over a billion dollars" is an accurate estimation of rounding up 11 million people scattered across the united states and sending them back to their countries of origin. Plane tickets for these 11 million people back to their home countries (lets say, for illustrations purpose that each ticket cost 400 dollars) would cost over 4 billion dollars in and of itself. A billion dollars is very very off, but what can you expect coming from this "someone".
Also, if no one is willing to hire them then they aren't going to be too comfortable now are they.
Except people ARE willing to hire them. Why else would they be here?
But the only way to keep people from hiring them is to set up a way to check on employers to see if they are hiring legal employees (and if they are hiring illegals then it is jail time, significant jail time-nothing else)
*blink* Why throw them in jail? Yeah it's illegal, but don't you think there are far more dangerous people we should be throwing in jail?
Also two layers of tall concrete wall is far better then any fence. All you need are motion sensors and other automated security devices with some troops and agents to respond. Then most of the remaining border agents guard the openings in the two ways. A similar method was used with San Diego ("Duncan Hunters' wall") and it reduced illegal traffic from thousands of trucks (per year) down to a handful a month which are easily caught. Walls work period.
I like the wall idea, it would curb illegal immigration, but motion sensors and automated devices would be far to expensive to install, maintain, and monitor over the ENTIRE US/Mexico border.
We also definitely need a higher minimum wage because without that businesses turn into the plantations of old--economic slavery is running rampant in America already right under our noses. The +80% of Americans need this protection to live. Also, wealth is becoming rediculously improportionant. Just look at the paychecks of CEOs (including those of oil companies). *And I won't even get into the extreme gas gauging going on*
Economic.....slavery? o_O; Uhh.....I hardly call the economy of the united states "Economic Slavery"....I think you could benefit from an economics class. ^^ As I said earlier, raising the min. wage would only cause the market to readjust itself and lower the worth of the dollar, making the new min. wage worth what the old min. wage was in the end. It's a simple Finance principle that is used every day in calculating interest rates and investments, 100 dollars in 10 years will not be worth 100 dollars today.

I'm not going to comment on any oil issues.
And I have to interject this: our economy will collapse no matter what happens with all the illegal immigrants. Outsourcing and free trade is the real economic problem.
What???? Free trade is the real problem?! *falls over dead* I cannot believe I just heard that x_x
The more jobs outsourced, the fewer jobs there are here in America.
Yes, and guess why they're outsourcing jobs? BECAUSE WE HAVE A MINIMUM WAGE and there are people in other countries that will work for less! =D!!!! And that argument is flawed, yes there will be less of the jobs we're outsourcing, but also by outsourcing we are cutting costs in business and thus encouraging growth of these companies here in the US and in turn, creating more jobs, and not just any jobs, but high level jobs. You can't say "outsourcing = lost jobs", it's not that simple, regardless of what Micheal Moore would like us to think >.>;;;
Further, without middle-class wages there is no middle-class and that means significantly fewer consumers to buy all those goods made in China and Korea and the rest of Asia and then profits steadily drop leading to economic collapse.
What??? *blink* No....That doesn't make any sense. You seem to keep forgetting that the market is going to continue to adjust itself and correct itself. Economics.........>.>;
Also, the economy cannot adjust when the people making the goods are not even in the same economy as the consumers of the goods.
Yes it can. It's been doing that for nearly a century. It's called "trade". It's good, it makes individual industries and areas and cultures more efficient and effective. Lots of things that consumers in america buy are from Japan, and likewise vice-versa, and this is beneficial to both economies.

And another thing, don't just up and trust what the government says when it comes to the job market (esp. with the unemployment rate which is based on how many people are drawing unemployment benefits-which lasts only 9 weeks in Alabama-and not on the number of people looking for work but don't have a job) I wouldn't be suprised to find 16% unemployment rate based on the number of people looking for work.
No. That's wrong. You do not need to be drawing unemployment benefits to be considered in the "unemployment rate" calculation. Here is a link:

Link

"...individuals are classified as "unemployed" if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior four weeks, and are currently available for work."

That's almost in complete contridiction to the "fact" you provided.
Also, I have to note that people with college degrees can't find work. Now this is a racist issue. It seems like the only employed electrical engineers in America are Indians. I know someone who has looked for over a year for an EE job and he has a Masters in the stuff with spectacular grades. He has also found sites and forums online with other EEs (some with even with experience) and can't find a job yet they state their Indian classmates have gotten jobs. This is just one example of outsourcing (note most of these Indians are from Indian).
That is not an example of outsourcing unless the Indians are actually living and working in India, and from the example you gave it seems like they are living and working here in the united states. Again, that is NOT outsourcing. And it's not really racism either, it's moreso a case of stereotyping
Oh, and on a final word: check out Lou Dobbs, CNN, 5:00 pm CST. He speaks the truth plainly with facts to back him up. Just check it out.
-_-; Hardly. Seriously. Lou Dobbs is about as "truthful" and "unbiased" as Bill O'Reilly. Lou Dobbs is a huge left wing liberal and spins everything to the left just as much as Bill is a right wing conservative and spins everything to the right.........

Forgive the offtopicness of this post. Although it is true that immigration does affect the economy in which we live.

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Post by yamichan2 » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:40 pm

Personally, I am for immegration, but not Illegal immegration. I do think that those who come to this country need to learn our language. I know for a fact that people in CA have been denied jobs that they were more than qualified for simply because they don't speak Spanish. And that is very wrong.

I don't think illegal immigrants should get free health care. They have committed a crime whether they like it or not and everyone else in this country has to work for that health care.

I agree that if no one would hire illegal immigrants that they would leave. They also shouldn't be allowed to rent housing here. IF they can't get housing or a job here there would be no point in coming/staying, which would curb the amount of illegal immigrants that come into the country.
However I also don't agree with some that people who feed or house illegal immigrants on an emergency basis should be punished. I wouldn't tell someone that they can't have food or water simply because they shouldn't be here. But once they are fed/watered they need to go back where they belong.

Also loosing these illegal workers would NOT cause severe economic issues. Those jobs would be taken by the younger Americans who haave difficulty getting an entry level job.

That is my opinion on the matter.
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Post by Gamer8585 » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:08 pm

oh...sticky subject.
[rant]

I'd like to start off by saying that, like everyone else here, I do not oppose Immigration in its entirety. Rather I oppose ILLEGAL immigration, and the US governments policy toward it (Incompetent at best, treasonous at worst).

First-and-foremost. Its a matter of national security, if a nation can't reasonably control its boarders it leaves itself open for infiltration of hostile foreign agents (I'm talking about real professional spy's and saboteurs, not people just looking to put on a roof to feed their families). Also the criminal element that makes it across, the drug dealers, the murderers, the rapists, etc. That have actively hurt American citizens and are difficult to trace. This goes both ways too, think about all of the stories about American criminals escaping to Mexico and disappearing. Then there is the massive amount of identity fraud involved (you know a [email protected]#ing FELONY) that profits criminal cartels (some only involved with ID theft and others that branch out into other criminal activities) harms the AMERICAN CITIZENS that they are ripping off (though ruination of credit or reputation) and harms the economy in general if they take out loans credit cards, and the merchants have to eat the cost because a purchase was fraudulent.

Second. There is a significant drain on national resources (both public and private). The extra crowding in schools, the depression of wages, the taxation on the health care system (I've heard that hospitals in the western US have had to close because they were receiving so many Illegals that couldn't pay for necessary, but expensive, treatments). Many Illegals do pay taxes (belive it or not) however the contributions of the ones that pay equal only ~7 billion dollars, IIRC, but the economic drain is ~20 billion dollars. Thats a $13 billion deficit for those of you that don't want to do the math.

Third. It's a matter of respect. They break a law by entering this country illegally, then they expect public services for free, then they expect that everyone will speak Spanish to them (and write signs and forms in Spanish), then they continue to demand all of these things plus amnesty (if not outright citizenship) WHILE WAVING THE FUCKING MEXICAN FLAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Note: an uncensored F'bomb means I'm pissed) In the words of Carlos Mencia, "Thats like breaking into my house, shitting on my table and asking 'what are you going to cook next?' NOTHING I'M NOT GOING TO COOK ANYTHING NEXT!"

Ok, I sympathies with many Illegal aliens to a degree (the workers not the criminals). There life is crappy they can't find a decent job in there own country and the only way to eat is to go north. The legal process for immigration into this county is long and expensive, it needs reform. So, they have to cross unconventionally to live. I get it I don't hate them for that.

My biggest problem is with the US government (you know the one responsible for border security). They don't provide an adequate wall, they don't provide enough border agents, and THEY DON'T ALLOW THE BORDER AGENTS TO DO THEIR JOB. Just look at how those two border agents went to prison because THEY SHOT A DRUG SMUGGLER and the USAG wanted to prosecute the agents for a procedural violation and gave the smuggler immunity from prosecution. Also the National Guard (a reserve military unit of the individual states), put on the border to assist the broader patrol, are not given power to detain anyone, and are given orders to retreat when gunmen advance. Also the US government are not taking the Mexican government to task about enforcement from there side. The Mexican government was handing out pamphlets detailing how to successfully cross the border illegaly and AFAIK the US government didn't say a damn thing.

As I see it there is a way to solve this problem. 1st) Crackdown on businesses who higher illegals. Send the CEO's to Federal-poundmeintheass-prision for a couple of weeks PER OFFENSE (higher: 1= 2 weeks, 2=4 weeks, 3=6 weeks, etc.). Sharing a cell with Big-Bubba who likes "ya soft 'nd purty skin" for even a weekend will make them think twice about highering illegals again (and word gets out fast), and of course you have to put in place a system where employers can reasonably verify the status of applicants. 2) remove restrictions on checking residency status during booking so police can apprehend and deport the criminal aliens ASAP. 3) Let the Border Guards and any Military attaches employ lethal force on everyone trying to cross unauthorized, because there's a damn good chance they are criminal elements and even if they're not then they still are FOREIGN NATIONALS TRYING TO INVADE THE COUNTRY (back in my day that's what was known as an "act of war," and we wore onions in our belts, but we didn't call them onions and belts were suspenders...). 4) Streamline the legal immigration process and reduce the cost. 5) Force Mexico (though trade sanctions, Military intimidation, whatever) to do their part in securing their side of the border.

[/rant]
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Post by Aishiteru » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:38 pm

In a perfect world there would be one immigration system and it would be strictly followed, but the world is nowhere near perfect, so prepare for some ranting.

Immigration is a good thing, but the system should be regulated and the security needs to be very high. I think that the immigrant should be required to learn enough of the official language to carry a simple conversation and/or pass a freshmen course in high school. That would make sure they know enough to communicate with clerks, teachers, and other people who the must talk to regularly. The only problem is that I don't think the United States has an official language (I could be wrong). The government has no law or document stating that English is the language to be used everywhere in the country, so we need to either make it the official language or put all government related words (like road signs) into every language on Earth. I think the first would be easier.

Illegal immigrants need to be dealt with according to the laws of both countries. For example, if one country simply takes the immigrant back to the original country and the other requires jail time or fines, the harsher law should be enforced or a reasonable compromise (like half the jail sentence or fine being served) should be reached. Also, any employer who knowingly hires an illegal immigrant should be given the maximum sentence possible. I recommend a heavy fine since they most likely hired the immigrant for financial purposes. I think that any illegal activity should be given the maximum punishment for the offense, with the exception of the death penalty (I don't agree with the death penalty). I know I'm probably not making any sense, but this is my view.
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Post by Tiff » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:00 pm

Aishiteru wrote:The only problem is that I don't think the United States has an official language (I could be wrong). The government has no law or document stating that English is the language to be used everywhere in the country, so we need to either make it the official language or put all government related words (like road signs) into every language on Earth. I think the first would be easier.
"The United States does not have an official language; nevertheless, English (specifically, American English) is the language used for legislation, regulations, executive orders, treaties, federal court rulings, and all other official pronouncements. Additionally, one must demonstrate an ability to read, write, and speak English to become a naturalized citizen. Many individual states and territories have also adopted English as their official language:

Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois,[1] Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming
California, on one hand, agreed to allow the publication of state documents in other languages to represent minority groups and immigrant communities. Languages, such as Spanish, Chinese, Korean, Tagalog (Filipino/Pilipino), Persian, Russian, Vietnamese and Thai appear in official state documents, and the Department of Motor Vehicles publishes in 47 languages.

Several states and territories are officially bi- or trilingual:

Hawaii (English and Hawaiian)
Louisiana (English and French legally recognized, although there is no official language)
New Mexico (English and Spanish de facto)
American Samoa (Samoan and English)
Guam (Chamorro and English)
Northern Mariana Islands (English, Chamorro, and Carolinian)
Puerto Rico (Spanish and English)"

Does that help?

And frankly, I agree that the U.S. needs to adopt English as its official language.

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Post by Aishiteru » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:10 pm

The United States does not have an official language; nevertheless, English (specifically, American English) is the language used for legislation, regulations, executive orders, treaties, federal court rulings, and all other official pronouncements. Additionally, one must demonstrate an ability to read, write, and speak English to become a naturalized citizen. Many individual states and territories have also adopted English as their official language:

Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois,[1] Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming
California, on one hand, agreed to allow the publication of state documents in other languages to represent minority groups and immigrant communities. Languages, such as Spanish, Chinese, Korean, Tagalog (Filipino/Pilipino), Persian, Russian, Vietnamese and Thai appear in official state documents, and the Department of Motor Vehicles publishes in 47 languages.

Several states and territories are officially bi- or trilingual:

Hawaii (English and Hawaiian)
Louisiana (English and French legally recognized, although there is no official language)
New Mexico (English and Spanish de facto)
American Samoa (Samoan and English)
Guam (Chamorro and English)
Northern Mariana Islands (English, Chamorro, and Carolinian)
Puerto Rico (Spanish and English)"

Does that help?

And frankly, I agree that the U.S. needs to adopt English as its official language.
Thanks! That helped. I brought this up with my American Heritage teacher today and he said that people have been trying to make English the official language for a long time and that one attempt failed not very long ago. I guess Congress thinks that creating an official language would violate the first amendment of the Federal Constitution of the U.S. It would be too close to creating a national religion. I don't think it would violate anything since a number of Americans are fluent only in English and legal immigrants must learn it to enter anyway.

Back on topic...

I'm not sure if this fits here, but I think it's a good idea. I think it would be interesting if the United States had a symbol of welcome facing all four main directions. For example, The Statue of Liberty faces the East. What if each outer border of the Continental U.S. had a symbol?

Anyway...

I don't think illegal immigrants who are already here should get to stay. If they are desperate they can get a temporary work visa from both countries. People who work in the international showcase in Epcot are all from the country areas they work in. Most of them have temporary work visas for a period of 2-10 years. This system works fine for them and only requires that they know some English and are not convicted of major felonies (plus some other minor requirements I probably don't know about). There is no extensive test or waiting period if there is proof of future employment in the United States. At the end of their work period they can apply for another visa or they could have passed for citizenship by that time.

It may be a good idea to have each worker take a bit of money from each pacheck until a set fine is payed as a consequence of their former illegal immigration. Workers who came here legaly in the first place would, of course, not have to pay such a penalty. I know the situation probably isn't that simple, but I think this would work in most cases.
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Post by AnimatedEvey12 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:23 am

I'm for immigration but not undocumented/illegal immigration (I'll usually use the term 'undocumented' instead of illegal). I don't think EVERYONE can stay here, say if the immigrants that come in undocumented are drug dealers and they get caught, they should not be allowed to stay here . Both of my parents are Mexican immigrants (and yes, both came in undocumented, but they have been U.S. citizens for about 14+ years) and both of my parents have learned English (my mother has a heavier accent than my father-I just found out a few weeks ago that my father learned some English in grammar school back in Mexico). So do agree that if you choose to live in a country you should try to learn the language. I don't think if you learn English you'll lose your culture. Although it is tricky, my mother thinks that children with immigrant parents live in two worlds, although I never really felt that. I know my cousin's grandparents are Cuban and they don't speak a word of English, his mother or his sister has to translate for them. His grandma actually one Christmas bought me a purse that said 'Heartbreaker' :shock: .

The idea of a border....just seems silly. In the show Penn and Teller Bullshit! they had an episode on immigration where they had Mexican workers build a replica wall and after they built it, they would hop over it or build a little tunnel under it or just smash it down. They'll keep on coming even if you build the tallest wall between U.S. and Mexico. [/i]
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Post by Iced_Cappucino » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:43 pm

I'm on the fence. The immigrants that come over to Britain are always hounded for 'Taking our jobs' but they take the jobs no British person wants to do and get paid very little for it. The Polish immigrants are also very hardworking.

I don't believe they should be sent back to their country if there's a war going on, that happened with the Jews and half of the ones who were sent home were killed. I wouldn't want to be refused safety is I was running away from death.

Despite this there are some immigrants who live off the governments cash when other people have to work hard to make a living. Some also get given free housing whilst people who are on a waiting list are pushed further back. I don't think racism helps though. It's all down to the way the government handle it. I don't see how calling immigrants rascist names will get them deported.
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