Top five dislikes about the cartoon vs manga

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Post by Cardcaptor Takato » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:05 pm

I was reading the English Sailor Moon manga recently and in one of the volumes they had an interview between Takeuchi and Mixx and in the interview Mixx asked Takeuchi what she thought was the biggest difference between the anime and the manga. She said that the biggest difference was that the manga was mostly created by women whereas the anime was mostly created by men. It also reminds me of how when Hitoshi Doi attended the Sailor Moon and X'mas '93 event, he commented on how most of the people attending the event were older male otakus and how most of them either didn't seem to know who Takeuchi was or didn't seem interested. It makes me wonder if the male otaku audience had any influence on the change in the Sailor Soldiers' personalities for the anime.
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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:04 pm

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:I was reading the English Sailor Moon manga recently and in one of the volumes they had an interview between Takeuchi and Mixx and in the interview Mixx asked Takeuchi what she thought was the biggest difference between the anime and the manga. She said that the biggest difference was that the manga was mostly created by women whereas the anime was mostly created by men. It also reminds me of how when Hitoshi Doi attended the Sailor Moon and X'mas '93 event, he commented on how most of the people attending the event were older male otakus and how most of them either didn't seem to know who Takeuchi was or didn't seem interested. It makes me wonder if the male otaku audience had any influence on the change in the Sailor Soldiers' personalities for the anime.
Thats a big possibility Cardcaptor Takato, I mean the changes made always seemed male driven to me. I wrote rants on that before. They just seemed to want to make the senshi weaker, and bitchier then they were in the manga and I dont think if Mrs Takeuchi had more control over the anime that this would have happened.

And the way Mamoru was changed around makes no sense to me, yes he got abit more spotlight with his rose throwing and speeches but they nulified his powers and that bugs me. He was more then leaping in the air and throwing flowers at people and it would have been nicer to see that. Just seems to me a bunch of guys there seen the series and went with what they thought was marketable over keeping true to the series.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by bioengineer » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:29 pm

Senshi_of_Vision wrote:
Cardcaptor Takato wrote: I wrote rants on that before. They just seemed to want to make the senshi weaker, and bitchier then they were in the manga and I dont think if Mrs Takeuchi had more control over the anime that this would have happened.
Well if the author wants his or her work to be brought to the silver screen, not having 100% control should be expected. There will always be disagreements and compromises between movie directors and book authors in developing films based on printed material.
No I am not defending the changes they made. But watching the anime made me appreciate the manga more. Same goes for PGSM.

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Post by Cardcaptor Takato » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:54 am

Expect that Naoko Takeuchi had no control over the anime at all. I think the only thing she did for the anime was write the lyrics for some of the songs and that's about it. I think that's what pisses off most fans of the manga. If Takeuchi had some say in the anime's production, perhaps it could've stayed closer to her vision and even if it didn't, if she was more involved in it, at least then any changes made to it would've been authorized personally by her.
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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:37 pm

bioengineer wrote: Well if the author wants his or her work to be brought to the silver screen, not having 100% control should be expected. There will always be disagreements and compromises between movie directors and book authors in developing films based on printed material.
No I am not defending the changes they made. But watching the anime made me appreciate the manga more. Same goes for PGSM.

Well thats a problem with hollywood or any big named tv production in general. Its why I like authors like Frank Miller and Neil Gainman. Mr. Miller flat out refuses to work with anyone who tries to water down his work. And Mr Gainman will not allow any one to make a Sandman movie from his works because of the changes some have tried to make. I only wish Naoko could have had more of a say but back then especially it probably would have been really hard for her to. Its just a shame to me because the story line changes turn a story that should be more of young women coming of age to a slapstick spoof at times. And while the anime is not without its charm I would still love to see the manga series in animated form as well.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by bioengineer » Sat May 12, 2007 8:14 pm

Sometimes the anime and manga do not give a clear explanation, which is one of the things I dislike.
For example:
- Haruka kissing Usagi in manga. Nothing against homosexuals, but Usagi's past actions never gave the slight indication of her coming out of the closet least bisexual. It just felt abrupt shoeing in an affair towards the middle of that arc.

- Tomoe surrendering his daughter to two women when he was in the hospital in the anime. Normally that would require legal paperwork and the government declaring the father unfit to care for the child.

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Post by jupiter23 » Sat May 12, 2007 8:29 pm

bioengineer wrote:Sometimes the anime and manga do not give a clear explanation, which is one of the things I dislike.
For example:
- Haruka kissing Usagi in manga. Nothing against homosexuals, but Usagi's past actions never gave the slight indication of her coming out of the closet least bisexual. It just felt abrupt shoeing in an affair towards the middle of that arc.

- Tomoe surrendering his daughter to two women when he was in the hospital in the anime. Normally that would require legal paperwork and the government declaring the father unfit to care for the child.
There are a couple of flaws in those situations you mentioned. In that scene in the manga, it was never even suggested that Usagi had welcomed the kiss. She was trying to find out who the new people in the shadows were, and she got a kiss in response. That in no way constitutes that Usagi was having an affair with Haruka.

And Tomoe never gave Hotaru up to anyone until the beginning of Sailor Stars. He happened to be unconscious at the time they took her from the battle site, and they later returned her to him.
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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Sat May 12, 2007 11:22 pm

I agree with Sailor Jupiter, the manga kiss you were talking about was Haruka showing her feelings for Usagi, something they touched on in the anime as well. Usagi never showed any romantic interest with her in either medium.


But I also agree with feeling weird about the animes handling of baby hotaru to have a father just give his child over to two women did seem strange though you could chalk that up to them using their powers to make him see it was whats best for his child. I much prefer Dr Tomoe of the manga because he was a disturbed man who got his comeupance and it made the outers raising Hotaru's storyline abit more believeable. I mean an orphaned raised by them seems more plausible then them just taking her from her only family. but thats just my opinion on that.*
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by Queen Of Hearts » Sun May 13, 2007 12:38 pm

The one thing I liked in the manga that they didn't put in the anime was the eternal Sailor fukus! I always thought that they where the prettiest ;_; But they didn't put that in the Anime which really bugged me ;_; Those where my favorite. So once again it is Usagi with the best costume (sure shes the leader but she seems a bit out of pleace with the others in the flashy eternal fuku)

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Thu May 17, 2007 10:16 pm

I wish the anime would have kept the story line about the Four Generals though it would have messed up the Kundzite/Zorcite relationship abit. I think with a little rewritting they could have even kept that part. I would have loved to seen them come back again like they did in the manga. Thought it was a small role it was nice to see them, and I love how the game Another world touched on that as well. They were after all Endymions original guardians before being corupted so I felt the mangas story for them was more fitting then the way they just get killed off in the anime. And one of my favorite posters is of the Senshi and Respective General posing together while Serenity and Endymion are embracing on a half moon sighs *romantic eyes*
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by Gladiaria_Alata » Mon May 28, 2007 9:19 am

MY peeves? Wooo. :roll:

1. Changing characterizations.

2. Powering down the Senshi while seemingly powering up the villains.

3. Connected to the first two, making the Senshi less competent.

My beautiful, classy Rei, what did they do to you!? :cry: And Usagi! :(

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Mon May 28, 2007 10:05 pm

Gladiaria_Alata wrote:MY peeves? Wooo. :roll:

2. Powering down the Senshi while seemingly powering up the villains.

My beautiful, classy Rei, what did they do to you!? :cry: And Usagi! :(

See with number 2 I sort of disagree because the villians in the manga were alot more of a threat to the senshi in my opinion. With the exception of the main bosses (for lack of better phrase) like Beryl, Nephrenia, and Galaxia though to me they were still watered down. The other villains in the anime were reduced to bumbling minions who eventually offed each other instead of going out fighting the senshi. I reallly think its cute that they focused on Usagi's ablity to want to reform the villians and with the changes to the villians it does work. But to me with the way the manga laid out the villians it also left them open to want to help them. I mean I dont know many if any after reading the manga didnt feel the villians lifes were tragic and many I actually felt sorry for.


And ugh Rei, so many changes...so much bitchiness added... they took away her aura of mystery and her classy nature IMO and its just sad.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by Gladiaria_Alata » Tue May 29, 2007 4:17 am

Well, I suppose, but look at the trouble they had with Jadeite (Kunzite an' Wiseman/Others.) in the anime compaired to the manga.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Tue May 29, 2007 8:45 pm

Jadeite did die earlier in the manga then he did the anime, but wiseman? ugh he was tons tougher and scarier IMO in the manga. His whole storyline still gives me the chills. The Generals got more of a play up in the anime granted and so did the other villians but they just didnt seem as formidable and were prone to killing each other when they should have been finished off by the Sailors. And the way they finally beat wiseman is okay in the anime but I just really think he wasnt half as creepy there just an guy in a robe with a crystal ball..what the heck was with all the darn orbs anyway?
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by jupiter23 » Tue May 29, 2007 9:14 pm

Senshi_of_Vision wrote:Jadeite did die earlier in the manga then he did the anime, but wiseman? ugh he was tons tougher and scarier IMO in the manga. His whole storyline still gives me the chills. The Generals got more of a play up in the anime granted and so did the other villians but they just didnt seem as formidable and were prone to killing each other when they should have been finished off by the Sailors. And the way they finally beat wiseman is okay in the anime but I just really think he wasnt half as creepy there just an guy in a robe with a crystal ball..what the heck was with all the darn orbs anyway?
They do show briefly in one episode (or was it two?) that Wiseman is actually a skeleton in a robe, not just some guy. So they were making an attempt (sorry though it was) to throw the creep-factor in there.

And while I do see the point about the villains being turned into a bunch of idiots who end up killing each other in the end, at least they get a bit of time in the anime for some character development. They barely really get that in the manga at all. The most time they end up getting for the most part is long enough to show that they work for the main bad guy and to get killed by the Sailors.
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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Tue May 29, 2007 9:28 pm

That is true but I think its cause manga is generally supposed to be more fast pace. Someone like me who is a big time reader wouldnt mind it but others might having a manga drag out a battle for too long. And thats why for the most part I appreciate the Animated version of Sailormoon cause it did leave big room for development, but I still think if they had used more of the storylines Mrs. Takeuchi had laid out they could have still made the same development and kept true to the stories.

If they managed to make the developments they did loosely based on the work i can only imagine if they kept more things, I just think if the original producers had not produced it for young girls and to a more broad general audience (which ended up being the core fan base) that the anime would have been a better blend of comedy, action and drama.

Just got finished the first season though and I am reminded why I loved the series when I got into it years back though I just wish that they had put more of the back stories you got from the manga, like Beryls love for Endymion and the pain she felt knowing hed never love her the way he loved Serenity.

And as I said above Beryl's generals...so many plot twists could have came from that. I could see Jadeite taunting Mars about a supposed past romance..

Though I think somone says the live action story touches on this not sure though havent been able to watch it yet and on dial up aint trying to watch it online.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by Gladiaria_Alata » Wed May 30, 2007 8:43 pm

Senshi_of_Vision wrote:Jadeite did die earlier in the manga then he did the anime, but wiseman? ugh he was tons tougher and scarier IMO in the manga. His whole storyline still gives me the chills. The Generals got more of a play up in the anime granted and so did the other villians but they just didnt seem as formidable and were prone to killing each other when they should have been finished off by the Sailors. And the way they finally beat wiseman is okay in the anime but I just really think he wasnt half as creepy there just an guy in a robe with a crystal ball..what the heck was with all the darn orbs anyway?
I suppose it's like that since he used to be human, eh?

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Wed May 30, 2007 8:55 pm

Yeah but if they went by the story the manga gave, he managed to figure a way to manipulate himself and

[spoiler]merge with an actual planet[/spoiler]


which made him formidable, his body was nothing but a shell for show. Which they loosely touch on in the anime as Jupiter says. I also think the scene with the body in the dungeon sums up how deeper and deadlier wiseman was in the manga.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by Gladiaria_Alata » Thu May 31, 2007 7:44 am

Senshi_of_Vision wrote:Yeah but if they went by the story the manga gave, he managed to figure a way to manipulate himself and

[spoiler]merge with an actual planet[/spoiler]


which made him formidable, his body was nothing but a shell for show. Which they loosely touch on in the anime as Jupiter says. I also think the scene with the body in the dungeon sums up how deeper and deadlier wiseman was in the manga.
Oh yes. *nods*

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