Why do people say that Mamoru is a jerk in the anime?

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Post by otakugirl17 » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:59 pm

I don't hate anime Mamoru, but I don't really see the love between him and Usagi. The anime always gave me the impression that Mamoru only dated Usagi because of their past lives. He always treated Usagi as more of child than a lover. To me, I believe Mamoru is in love with SERENITY not USAGI. It wasn't until after he found out who she was that showed an interest in her. Their love to me feels like one of obligation than one of actual love.

I like Mamoru's personality because it is very similar to mine. I just don't think he's the guy for Usagi. For some reason I picture him with Setsuna, but I'm not going to get into that . It's really bad when I'm watching the anime I have to remind myself that Mamoru and Usagi are lovers. It just isn't strong in the anime. Haruka and Michiru's love are FAR stronger than theirs will ever be and they've never even been shown kissing.

That's why I support Seiya/Usagi in the anime. He/she is the ONLY person I can picture Usagi with. Now in the manga, this is a whole different story. I support Usagi/ Mamoru completey and their love is VERY strong. It's implied that they made love in the manga which is something I'll NEVER see anime Mamoru doing willingly.

That's my two cents on this basically. I don't think anime Mamoru is a jerk, but I don't think he's the one for Usagi either.

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Post by Musashi » Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:58 pm

I agree that in comparision to the manga, he seems a complete jerk. While I've not read ALL of the manga, I've read enough to notice the HUUUUGE canyon of difference between the two's personalities... and I still like anime!Mamoru better because he seems more realistic to me.
... That and I can relate more with anime!Mamoru then manga. ^^;;

He definitely seems to me like he'd show his affection for her in private. Remember the big fuss he made in the R movie about kissing her in public, yet when nobody (except Luna, but they didn't see her) was watching in the S movie, I remember it being much more natural for him.

Also, what Fisheye said about Mamoru's smile in the photo with her... that's what I believe too.

Also, I only really saw him as condescending in the first series... which was immature as heck, but what about her answers to that? Sticking her tongue out at him or calling him a creep or something. xD; They were both pretty immature then.

Huh, I found those weight comments in SuperS funny, especially when he was all: 'You gained weight...' and she yelled: 'It's not my fault!' and he notices the rest of the Sailor Senshi hanging onto her and goes: '... Oh.' ^^;;;;
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Post by Cardcaptor Takato » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:03 pm

otakugirl17 wrote:
That's why I support Seiya/Usagi in the anime. He/she is the ONLY person I can picture Usagi with. Now in the manga, this is a whole different story. I support Usagi/ Mamoru completey and their love is VERY strong. It's implied that they made love in the manga which is something I'll NEVER see anime Mamoru doing willingly.
You mean besides the fact that Mamoru willingly had a child with Usagi in the anime? If Mamoru was such a jerk, I seriously doubt Usagi would stick around long enough to give birth to his child and raise a family with him, let alone get married to the guy. While I do agree that Mamoru is a lot nicer in the manga from what I've read of it (I've only read half-way through the Black Moon arc and random chapters from the Infinity and Stars arc), I never really cared about him in the manga because he's just so much more boring in it because he's almost too perfect in the manga and you never feel like there's any romantic conflict between them. Not having any romantic conflict between a couple in a shoujo anime is like not having slutty love triangles in a soap opera; it's just not as much fun. Even though his manga counterpart is nicer, I've never thought he was a full-fledged jerk in the anime because in most cases I can usually understand why he does the things he does. I can understand why he teased Usagi in the first season because Usagi is a hyperactive guy-obssesed happy-go-lucky teenage girl who hits him on the top of his head with a shoe she kicked in the air to tell a fortune, and Mamoru is this angsty college student with no family or memories of his past life, so of course he's going to be seriously lacking in the people skills. But if Mamoru was really a jerk, would he have bothered to save her life when Zoicite tried to kill them in the Starlight Tower?

While breaking up with Usagi during R may not have been the best solution, remember Mamoru doesn't have any people skills, not to mention Usagi is his first real girlfriend he ever had (that little fling with Rei doesn't count as a real relationship). It's not like he's Dr. Phil or something. I mean, his first real girlfriend is a 14 year old girl who's life he's trying to save the best way he knows how. He may not have made the best choices, but come on, it's his first relationship. How many first relationships do you know that're aways 100% perfect? And I think the fact that not only is Usagi the first girl Mamoru ever had a real relationship with, but that Mamoru is the first man Usagi ever had a relationship with as well and yet they still managed to stay together and even raise a family should say something about how much of a supposed "jerk" Mamoru is, shouldn't it?

Also, if Mamoru is a jerk because he acts embarrassed when Usagi does something stupid in public, then everyone else in the anime should be considered a jerk too because EVERYONE on this show acts embarrassed when Usagi does something stupid. Hell, even the villians acted embarrassed to fight her. I mean, come on, this is a girl who thinks a POET is a snack. I think we can afford to forgive Mamoru for acting embarrassed around her when she acts that stupid a little bit, can't we? However, when Mimete started flirting with him in that one S episode, if he was such a jerk, he could've easily stared flirting back with her, but guess what? He didn't. Instead he took both Usagi AND Chibi-usa by his side and firmly and clearly told her that Usagi and Chibi-usa were his future wife and child. Now if that doesn't count as being affecionate, I don't know what does.

But what really gets me is that is that so many people hate Mamoru for being a jerk towards Usagi yet everyone abosuletly loves Seiya even though he does the EXACT same things to Usagi that Mamoru did to her in the first season. Seiya is almost always picking on her, calls her dumpling when she makes it clear that only Mamoru can do that, and hell, he even acts embarrassed when Usagi does something stupid in public. In fact, I think Seiya is even more of a jerk than Mamoru is because not only does Seiya tease Usagi when she constantly tells him to stop, but he even flirts with her several times when she's repeatedly told him to stop because she's in love with another man. Mamoru may have teased Usagi a lot in the first season, but at least he didn't sexually harass her like Seiya did.

If this was the real world, Seiya could be arrested for sexual harassment yet everyone acts like he's this super respectable perfect guy for Usagi even though he acts exactly the same way Mamoru does, if not worse, just with a slight punkier edge to him. And did we forget that Seiya lied to Usagi about being a woman in a man's body? Imagine if Usagi did choose to be with Seiya instead of Mamoru before she found out the truth. I'm not too sure she would be thrilled to find out her new boyfriend was really a girl who lied to her about being a man, considering Usagi is straight as an arrow.
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Post by Umino » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:24 pm

Eh, never really cared for anime Mamoru. In the first season he was a complete asshole. Always making fun of Usagi, putting her down, insulting her friends, etc. He was a total jerk.

Then afterwards, he was kind of.. eh, too perfect.

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Post by the*blue*girl » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:32 pm

Cardcaptor Takato, that is a perfect way to put it. that's how i feel too, only i suck at writing stuff that makes sense. i don't have anything to add, just wanted to say that that's my opinion too.

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Post by SailorMoonFan » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:40 pm

Cardcaptor Takato, I agree 100% with what you just said. I never really saw Mamoru in the anime as a jerk at all. And that example that you gave about that episode in the S series just shows you that Mamoru really cares for Usagi and treasures their relationship. And Seiya has the exact same traits that Mamoru had displayed during the 1st season. I think she is much better off with Mamoru then Seiya. I mean Seiya completely lied to Usagi. Mamoru never really did . . . and if he did the lies were never as huge as the one Seiya had.
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Post by bioengineer » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:10 am

You mean besides the fact that Mamoru willingly had a child with Usagi in the anime? If Mamoru was such a jerk, I seriously doubt Usagi would stick around long enough to give birth to his child and raise a family with him, let alone get married to the guy.
The thread arguement is not about Usagi and her decision to stick with Mamoru. Its about Mamoru being a jerk or not.
But if Mamoru was really a jerk, would he have bothered to save her life when Zoicite tried to kill them in the Starlight Tower?
He saved Sailor Moon, not Usagi. He didnt know Sailor Moon was Usagi. If he did know, then Mamoru may or may not saved her.
While breaking up with Usagi during R may not have been the best solution, remember Mamoru doesn't have any people skills, not to mention Usagi is his first real girlfriend he ever had (that little fling with Rei doesn't count as a real relationship).
It did serve something. Angst. Drama. And it IS a relationship if two parties consent. In this case Rei and Mamoru did have a relationship.
I mean, his first real girlfriend is a 14 year old girl who's life he's trying to save the best way he knows how. He may not have made the best choices, but come on, it's his first relationship. How many first relationships do you know that're aways 100% perfect? And I think the fact that not only is Usagi the first girl Mamoru ever had a real relationship with, but that Mamoru is the first man Usagi ever had a relationship with as well and yet they still managed to
BAD arguement due to shakey facts here. We never did know if Mamoru had other relationships (male or female) in the past.
But what really gets me is that is that so many people hate Mamoru for being a jerk towards Usagi yet everyone abosuletly loves Seiya even though he does the EXACT same things to Usagi that Mamoru did to her in the first season.
Mamoru is an apple. Seiya is an orange. Apple does not equal orange.
And did we forget that Seiya lied to Usagi about being a woman in a man's body? Imagine if Usagi did choose to be with Seiya instead of Mamoru before she found out the truth.
Lie is such a strong word to use. But if this counts as lying, then Mamoru lied to Usagi ten times more than what Seiya lied to her.
I'm not too sure she would be thrilled to find out her new boyfriend was really a girl who lied to her about being a man, considering Usagi is straight as an arrow.
I fail to see how the sexual perference of a person helps this arguement. May I point out to you that Usagi was once attracted and even chased after Haruka who is 100% female?
And since we are on the subject of sexual perference, most characters never had thier perference established. Few such as Haruka and Michiru (both homosexuals) have been establised.

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Post by Sailormars Obsessed fan » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:01 am

actually in the starlight tower he did know usagi was sailormoon since she transformed right in front of him.
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Post by Cardcaptor Takato » Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:20 am

bioengineer wrote:He saved Sailor Moon, not Usagi. He didnt know Sailor Moon was Usagi. If he did know, then Mamoru may or may not saved her.

It did serve something. Angst. Drama. And it IS a relationship if two parties consent. In this case Rei and Mamoru did have a relationship.


Lie is such a strong word to use. But if this counts as lying, then Mamoru lied to Usagi ten times more than what Seiya lied to her.



I fail to see how the sexual perference of a person helps this arguement. May I point out to you that Usagi was once attracted and even chased after Haruka who is 100% female?
And since we are on the subject of sexual perference, most characters never had thier perference established. Few such as Haruka and Michiru (both homosexuals) have been establised.
I guess those scenes where Mamoru saves Usagi from being burned to death by Zoicite if he didn't fight him and when he saved Usagi from the falling iciciles BEFORE he found out she was Sailor Moon doesn't count as saving? Just because Rei and Mamoru may have gone to eat out once and Rei forced Mamoru into going to a doll show he didn't give a rat's ass about doesn't count as a "relationship." According to dictionary.com, a date means "to go out socially with someone." A relationship means, "a romantic or sexual involvement." Mamoru and Rei went out socially with each other, but not once did they ever have a romantic or sexual involvement with each other. Mamoru stepping on Rei's head and Rei inviting him to have tea with her ONCE to make up for it does not count as having Mamoru's consent. Mamoru never referred to himself and Rei as being a "couple." In fact, half of the time, he didn't even know why she was so interested in asking him out all the time. And in episode 38, when Rei and Usagi are trapped by the snow, Rei tells Usagi that she "already gave up on Mamoru-san" but not once did they ever show her approaching Mamoru and telling him she wanted to break up with him. Does that mean Rei and Mamoru are still together because she never had his consent to break up with him?

And Seiya lying to Usagi about his true identity does count as a lie because the show itself says it was a lie. Seiya even told Usagi "I'm sorry I LIED to you." And when did Mamoru lie ten times more than Seiya? As far as I'm aware, the only things Mamoru lied about were about being Tuxedo Mask and about breaking up with her in R, but when Mamoru lied to Usagi, he did it to protect her. Seiya only lied to protect himself and I think lying for a selfish reason is a lot worse than lying to protect somebody you love from being killed. There are also times where Mamoru told Usagi the truth, such as when he told Usagi about how he had no memories or parents or about his dreams about the Moon Princess or how he knows about the Silver Crystal and this was BEFORE they knew each other's true identities. If Mamoru was such a jerk, I doubt he would tell Usagi something so personal like the truth about his past or about how he knew about the Silver Crystal, but when did Seiya ever tell Usagi the truth? I don't recall him ever confessing any of his lies to her until after she found out about it on her own. And Usagi only chased after Haruka because she thought she was a man at the time. Once she found out that Haruka was really a girl, she stopped chasing after her. In fact, when Usagi thought Makoto was chasing after Haruka even after finding out she was really a girl, Usagi was actually worried about her friend starting to chase after women instead of men. If Usagi was A-ok about dating a girl who lied to her about being a girl, then I don't think she would be so worried about her friend chasing after girls instead of guys.
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Post by Tiff » Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:38 pm

Cardcaptor Takato wrote: According to dictionary.com, a date means "to go out socially with someone." A relationship means, "a romantic or sexual involvement." Mamoru and Rei went out socially with each other, but not once did they ever have a romantic or sexual involvement with each other.
Oh, that's just stretching. -_- Come on. Relationships mean different things to different people. You can have a relationship, and not be sexual. And I consider a date to be romantic in nature. Two people are attracted to eachother, they have things in common, they go on a date with the hope of it being something more.

A lot of people consider a relationship to be two people dating, and at the very least, Rei and Mamoru were going steady, aka dating, aka in a relationship, in my book.

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Post by Sailor V » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:35 pm

But Mamoru didn't even act like it was dating in the first place. Isn't a relationship when both partners commit to it? Mamoru jus acted like he was babysitting Rei?
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Post by Tiff » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:50 pm

Sailor V wrote:But Mamoru didn't even act like it was dating in the first place. Isn't a relationship when both partners commit to it? Mamoru jus acted like he was babysitting Rei?
It doesn't matter what his attitude may have been. He went out on dates with her. He took her out. It was DATING, end of story.

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Post by the*blue*girl » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:58 pm

bioengineer wrote:
Mamoru is an apple. Seiya is an orange. Apple does not equal orange.
ok, i have to ask... how the hell is mamoru an apple and seiya an orange?! they're so similar, both as plot devices and as people, that i just don't see what you're saying.

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Post by Sailorasteroid » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:02 pm

the*blue*girl wrote:
bioengineer wrote:
Mamoru is an apple. Seiya is an orange. Apple does not equal orange.
ok, i have to ask... how the hell is mamoru an apple and seiya an orange?! they're so similar, both as plot devices and as people, that i just don't see what you're saying.
Maybe he means they're both fruits.

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Post by Tiff » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:49 pm

the*blue*girl wrote:
bioengineer wrote:
Mamoru is an apple. Seiya is an orange. Apple does not equal orange.
ok, i have to ask... how the hell is mamoru an apple and seiya an orange?! they're so similar, both as plot devices and as people, that i just don't see what you're saying.
He's saying that comparing Mamoru and Seiya is like comparing apples to oranges. They're two completely different chars under completely different circumstances and situations. And I agree with him.

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Post by Sailorasteroid » Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:03 pm

But even though they're different people in profile, Takato's point remains: Seiya treated Usagi in much the same manner that Mamoru did, down to "Odango." Is there some quality that put Seiya's actions in a different context than Mamoru's?
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Post by Tiff » Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:15 pm

Sailorasteroid wrote:But even though they're different people in profile, Takato's point remains: Seiya treated Usagi in much the same manner that Mamoru did, down to "Odango." Is there some quality that put Seiya's actions in a different context than Mamoru's?
And I disagree.

For one, I disagree that Seiya lied just to protect himself. Wouldn't have revealing his identity possibly put Usagi in danger, too? Especially since the two were close, and everyone knows how much the enemies love to attack friends/loved ones of senshi. And to say all of Mamoru's lies were to protect Usagi is just ridiculous.

Seiya seemed to really, really care about Usagi's feelings, and it pained him to see her in pain as well. His light teasing didn't go much further than "Odango", whereas Mamoru seems to constantly criticize her, IMO.

-_- We're basically driving the same tired points into the ground, people. Some people don't like Mamoru, others do. We're just repeating ourselves over and over and over.

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Post by SeiUsa » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:55 pm

I just think he should've stayed with Rei. But of course, that would totally mess up "destiny" and all. So then Usagi should've married him and had Chibiusa, and then run off with Seiya when all that's over and have their own little Chibiusa. (or...Seiusa! :D )
...while Mam goes with Rei (or Setsuna...or both).


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Post by Sailormars Obsessed fan » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:05 pm

SeiUsa wrote:I just think he should've stayed with Rei. But of course, that would totally mess up "destiny" and all. So then Usagi should've married him and had Chibiusa, and then run off with Seiya when all that's over and have their own little Chibiusa. (or...Seiusa! :D )
...while Mam goes with Rei (or Setsuna...or both).


Ah...'tis wishful thinking.
lol actually I think Usagi should have gone with Rei and just forgotten about chibi-usa and mamoru
"The great library of Willendorf, filled with dull tomes of trite accounts by pompous historians about matters that could not possibly be of interest to anyone but themselves." Kain -- Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain

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Sailor V
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Post by Sailor V » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:49 pm

Bah! Rei is better off with Yuuchirou then Mamoru. I think he softens her up more than Mamoru ever did.
Bob: People! Tiff had to put the crying Usagi banner up! Enter the contest!!! D8
Tiff: They must love making Usagi cry. ;_; poor Usagi.
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