Why do people say that Mamoru is a jerk in the anime?

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Why do people say that Mamoru is a jerk in the anime?

Post by Jermyn » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:11 pm

I mean he's always there to help Usagi as Tuxedo Mask or as the Moonlight Knight. The only time he act like a jerk was during the Black Moon Clan Saga and that was on purpose because his future self was sending dreams that said Usagi would die if he stay with her.

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Post by Panda » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:49 pm

Because he's rude to Usagi...

I mean, for real, if my boyfriend avoided me and put me down as much as Mamoru does to Usagi I'd pop a cap in his ass.


He is rude and ungrateful.

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Post by Tiff » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:07 pm

Becuase he's a jerk, plain and simple. He makes fun of her, he talks down to her, and I just plain don't like him. And when he was having those nightmares? Would it have been SO hard to say, "Look, Usagi, something bad is going on...I need tos tay away from you for your own safety. I love you, just please understand for now." Instead, he acted like he hated her, and made her life miserable.

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Re: Why do people say that Mamoru is a jerk in the anime?

Post by bioengineer » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:13 pm

I mean he's always there to help Usagi as Tuxedo Mask or as the Moonlight Knight./quote]

That is a largely overlooked fact. Everyone needs to have a "whipping boy" in every show. Take the mass hatred for Relena of Gundam Wing for example.
The only time he act like a jerk was during the Black Moon Clan Saga and that was on purpose because his future self was sending dreams that said Usagi would die if he stay with her.
Its debateble on where the blame should be placed. King Endymion, who knew full well that his past counterpart would actually believe and act on such dreams or the guy who, in SMC was on a mission to find a crystal all because some princess in his dreams wanted it.

Why do people say that Mamoru is a jerk in the anime? Ask the producers why they made him that way.

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Post by Sailorasteroid » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:22 pm

Some people think he's a jerk because he acts condescending to Usagi or solely because of the R arc. For me, saving her life so many times counts for something. I just think he's not that affectionate
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Post by Tiff » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:27 pm

Sailorasteroid wrote:Some people think he's a jerk because he acts condescending to Usagi or solely because of the R arc. For me, saving her life so many times counts for something. I just think he's not that affectionate
Read my post.

Again, I TOTALLY understand that he had to avoid her to save her life. But my point is how he went about doing it. Again, why was it so hard to briefly explain himself? God knows the senshi have been through WEIRDER things. She would have understood had he explained it to her. In fact, when he DOES explain it ot her later, she completely understands.

Condescending does not equate a lack of affection. That's a completely different ballpark of behavior. When you talk down to someone, that's just plain belittling.

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Post by peachvampiress » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:33 pm

The thing that sticks out in my mind the most is the SuperS episode where Usagi wanted to be a ballerina, and he told her to lose weight. Yeah you have to be slim to be a ballet dancer, but it always struck me as odd that he'd be a prick about it instead of saying something like "maybe you should exercise a bit more". It sounds more pratical and less jerkish.
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Post by Rin » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:40 pm

Gina Biggs wrote a really good essay in Mamoru's favor adressing this.
Here's the link.

http://thetour.animehunters.com/sinusam ... e_003.html

As for me, I've never had a problem with them. But then, I'm not really into romance all that much.
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Post by Sailorasteroid » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:52 pm

Tiff wrote:Read my post.

Again, I TOTALLY understand that he had to avoid her to save her life. But my point is how he went about doing it. Again, why was it so hard to briefly explain himself? God knows the senshi have been through WEIRDER things. She would have understood had he explained it to her. In fact, when he DOES explain it ot her later, she completely understands.

Condescending does not equate a lack of affection. That's a completely different ballpark of behavior. When you talk down to someone, that's just plain belittling.
Actually, I *don't* understand his decision to stay away from her. That was a little jerkish. But I was speaking in general on him being condescending. He is a lot smarter than Usagi, and runs his own life while Usagi is still a high school student living at home. Nothing wrong with that, but to expect Mamoru to treat Usagi as a conversation equal is I think asking too much.

Also, don't forget that of what we see of Mamoru, it's mostly in times of crisis, and the rest in times that lead to crisis. It's possible that in U&M's dates that we don't see on screen, he's a very different person, especially if they're dates in private.
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Post by Tiff » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:56 pm

Sailorasteroid wrote: Actually, I *don't* understand his decision to stay away from her. That was a little jerkish. But I was speaking in general on him being condescending. He is a lot smarter than Usagi, and runs his own life while Usagi is still a high school student living at home. Nothing wrong with that, but to expect Mamoru to treat Usagi as a conversation equal is I think asking too much.
....so if someone doesn't have the same education as someone else, it's okay to treat them as someone inferior?

I graduated with a bachelor's degree. Derek has his associate's, but hasn't gone further yet. Does that mean I shouldn't consider him my equal in conversation?

Neither of my brothers went to college. Should I talk down tot hem, too?

Your argument just baffles me.

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Post by SeiUsa » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:14 pm

Why do people say that Mamoru is a jerk in the anime?
Because we think Seiya is better. :P
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Post by bioengineer » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:51 pm

SeiUsa wrote:Because we think Seiya is better. :P
Over-generalized and off topic statement. Some fans believe Mamoru is a jerk think Rei, Haruka, Demando, Mokoti, Artemis are better for Usagi. And there is a minority who believe he is a jerk yet still pair Usagi with him.

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Post by Panda » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:58 am

Sailorasteroid wrote:
Tiff wrote:Read my post.

Again, I TOTALLY understand that he had to avoid her to save her life. But my point is how he went about doing it. Again, why was it so hard to briefly explain himself? God knows the senshi have been through WEIRDER things. She would have understood had he explained it to her. In fact, when he DOES explain it ot her later, she completely understands.

Condescending does not equate a lack of affection. That's a completely different ballpark of behavior. When you talk down to someone, that's just plain belittling.
Actually, I *don't* understand his decision to stay away from her. That was a little jerkish. But I was speaking in general on him being condescending. He is a lot smarter than Usagi, and runs his own life while Usagi is still a high school student living at home. Nothing wrong with that, but to expect Mamoru to treat Usagi as a conversation equal is I think asking too much.

Also, don't forget that of what we see of Mamoru, it's mostly in times of crisis, and the rest in times that lead to crisis. It's possible that in U&M's dates that we don't see on screen, he's a very different person, especially if they're dates in private.

That makes no since... especially considering your saying that on a public forum. half of the people here are 20- years old...

I understand Usagi isn't the most graceful person around but that is one tough bitch right there. For one she's his girlfriend. If age does not matter in love then it doesn't matter in respect. If he's so much more mature then she is and is such an educated person then it truly baffles me how he acts so rude, disrespectful, condisending, and immature in these times of crisis. Especially considering he's supposed to be saving her life. Usagi, a fifteen year old throughout the majority of the series, reacts almost ten times more maturly than Mamoru does. And that's certainly saying alot about someone like Usagi who has numerous flaws herself.


Even if Usagi and Mamoru aren't on the same intellectual level they were never really meant (In My Opinion) to have that type of a relationship. I've always believed they were there to love and support one another and not necessarily discuss Quantam Physics. Of course they wouldn't totally have nothing to talk about but I don't beleive the way they think are common anyway.

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Post by Sailorasteroid » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:32 am

Tiff wrote:
Sailorasteroid wrote: Actually, I *don't* understand his decision to stay away from her. That was a little jerkish. But I was speaking in general on him being condescending. He is a lot smarter than Usagi, and runs his own life while Usagi is still a high school student living at home. Nothing wrong with that, but to expect Mamoru to treat Usagi as a conversation equal is I think asking too much.
....so if someone doesn't have the same education as someone else, it's okay to treat them as someone inferior?
I graduated with a bachelor's degree. Derek has his associate's, but hasn't gone further yet. Does that mean I shouldn't consider him my equal in conversation?

Neither of my brothers went to college. Should I talk down tot hem, too?[/quote]
I didn't say education; I said intelligence. For reasons of age, temperment, values, ability, and yes, education, my conclusion is that Mamoru is a lot smarter than Usagi. And if there's that much of a gap, then ONLY in the area of conversation, it's proper for him to condescend. Usagi is more affectionate by far. There are situations where she should take the lead and Mamoru should follow.
Panda wrote:I understand Usagi isn't the most graceful person around but that is one tough bitch right there. For one she's his girlfriend. If age does not matter in love then it doesn't matter in respect. If he's so much more mature then she is and is such an educated person then it truly baffles me how he acts so rude, disrespectful, condisending, and immature in these times of crisis. Especially considering he's supposed to be saving her life. Usagi, a fifteen year old throughout the majority of the series, reacts almost ten times more maturly than Mamoru does. And that's certainly saying alot about someone like Usagi who has numerous flaws herself.
How does Mamoru act immaturely in times of crisis? Most of the time he is presenting himself as the first victim, the target to draw the fire away from Sailor Moon and the other girls.
Even if Usagi and Mamoru aren't on the same intellectual level they were never really meant (In My Opinion) to have that type of a relationship. I've always believed they were there to love and support one another and not necessarily discuss Quantam Physics. Of course they wouldn't totally have nothing to talk about but I don't beleive the way they think are common anyway.
I agree. They are not in the sort of relationship that lends itself to intellectual pursuits. Why, then, should Mamoru be lambasted for having them? If Usagi is more affectionate while Mamoru is a cold fish, does that mean they should only rarely kiss? The key to their relationship, IMO, is that each fills gaps the other has to make a partnership that's stronger for it.

Part of the problem as I see it is that Mamoru has all the unlovable virtues: seriousness, responsibility, practicality, book-intelligence, while Usagi has all of the lovable ones: affection, loyalty, sense of humor, emotional-intelligence. So to the outside eye it looks like Mamoru is being a jerk, but I think Usagi would disagree.
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Post by sailor skywalker » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:55 am

I'll keep it simple I don't like him

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Post by Starscream » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:58 am

Sailorasteroid wrote:And if there's that much of a gap, then ONLY in the area of conversation, it's proper for him to condescend.
Meh, I don't believe that has to be the case necessarily. Maybe I'm taking the definition of "condescend" as it's used most often ("to stoop or patronize") rather than literally ("to speak in simpler terms"), but I don't think that anyone should have to "talk down" to an intellectual inferior as if they were ignorant fools who could never learn better.

Honestly, I don't see Mamoru condescending whenever he speaks to Usagi. Sure, he can be brusk and a bit rude in the first season, but don't forget that Usagi reciprocates those attitudes right back to him. Further, it seems like many times he pokes fun at her just to get a rise out of her, not out out of a serious desire to hurt her feelings. It also seems to me that his attitude changes dramatically after R; he tends to take on a much more advisory/team-player role in later seasons (as Mamoru) and seems more open to conversation without having to insult others.

Nevertheless, I agree a bit with Asteroid that part of Mamoru's problem throughout the entire run is the fact that he's a bit distant and emotionless, especially when compared to the bubbly, all-over-the-place Usagi. He doesn't "tell it like it is", to use the over-hyped phrase, but he is rather blunt with his feelings about various topics. Mamoru doesn't seem prone to fantasizing or romanticising about life, another stark contrast to the way the Inner Soldiers dwell on their own situations.
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Post by Origiri » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:48 am

Because he is not very affectionate or passionate lover, he does not answer the huge passion and pure love Usagi has for him, he just...just helps SM in combat and then stays with Usagi as it is their destiny, as he can not avoid it.

We all know how Usagi is mad about Mamoru, to the point of doing funny things for him. (remember when Usagi became a ninja to spy on Mamoru, that was hillarious!) And what does Mamoru do? Besides helping them in combat, I mean, what does he do in their normal lives? Nothing at all, Usagi is always in second priority, his education, job, personal matters etc are all above her. Has he ever told 'Usagi, I love you!' No, I do not remember such an occasion. I remember though, Usagi asks him frequently that 'Do you love me?' and he replies 'Yes' that's all. What a total jerk indeed! :x

Now, I never laid my eyes upon the manga, but they say he is so much a better boyfriend in it, more caring, loving, etc.

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Post by Sailormars Obsessed fan » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:50 am

I dont like him because I dont think hes a very well written character. At least in the anime.

It seems he was used as a plot device too much. "How can we save sailormoon from this monster?" "I know lets have a guy throw a flower at the monster" "Cool we can use this idea in EVERY EPISODE!" "Well almost every episode." Sailormoon is supposed to be a powerful girl whos a bit of a ditz but still capable of taking care of herself. She really didnt need "THE GUY" to rescue her so much. It was condescending....at least to me and a few of my sailormoon friends (most are female and really hate him for this reason).

Also in my opinion we dont get a satisfactory explanation as to why his future self was sending him those dreams in the R season. "I needed to make sure you two would stick together during the hard times. So I decided to try to break you up." Thats not exactly what he said but its close. I really hope Im just remembering that wrong because that it really inane logic.
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Post by Origiri » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:53 am

^This only proves that his future self is also still a total jerk as well! No improvement! :lol:

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Post by bioengineer » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:10 am

If they increased the "passionate lover" chemistry in him they would have to up the rating of the show. Remember we are evaluating an anime based from a culuture different from our own. Public displays of affection are not encouraged in Japanese society. Haruka and Michiru are lovers but we do not see them eating eachothers chin as a greeting.
And what does Mamoru do? Besides helping them in combat, I mean, what does he do in their normal lives? Nothing at all, Usagi is always in second priority, his education, job, personal matters etc are all above her.
Try being a super hero and maintaining a normal life at the same time.
Thier on camera interaction in one form or another centers on defeating evil on a daily basis. Off camera we can only speculate what they do. Though to point out Usagi does have a key to Mamoru's apartment which means she has access to him 24/7. And what she does is something I dare not hazard a guess.

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