The Problems with Sailor Stars

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Post by Tiff » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:18 am

Starscream wrote:Well, her points, I believe, were germane to the topic at hand; we were discussing Star Seeds and the Ginzuishou, and she brought up a valid point that even I have had confusion about in the past. The show itself never explicitly states that the Rainbow Crystals were just pieces of the Ginzuishou, while the "core" or "essence" of it was within Usagi the whole time, and lots of sites out there are vague or give conflicting information about whether or not the Rainbow Crystals are mere shards or the primary components of the Ginzuishou.
I personally felt that these were easily answered questions, since I myself did a search and came up with many responses on the subject. Therefore, that's why I suggested google, since she was asking such general questions which I felt weren't hugely related to "problems with sailor stars". It seemed more like an independent discussion about the Ginzuishou, which could have earned its own topic.

And honestly, I would have thought you'd have come to me either in the staff forum or through PM to tell me you disagreed with what I said in admin mode. I really didn't think you'd do it here.

(edit)

Go ahead and continue your discussions, if it's star seed/ginzuishou/stars related.

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Post by bioengineer » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:44 pm

Tiff wrote: Um...Usagi DOES "die". She gets sent to the galaxy cauldron, just like everybody else who dies. The Guardian of the cauldron, Guardian Cosmos, lets people decide if they want to receive a new life, or remain in the cauldron as purest, truest star seeds. Usagi chose to live her new life, and she wakes up in the future, marries Mamoru, and etc.
That was a problem for me when I read that volume. At the end she appears to be waking up in bed. It gave the impression the entire ordeal was just a dream of Usagi's. Just like when Haruka kissed Usagi, was she dreaming or did that actually take place.

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Post by Tiff » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:20 pm

bioengineer wrote:
That was a problem for me when I read that volume. At the end she appears to be waking up in bed. It gave the impression the entire ordeal was just a dream of Usagi's. Just like when Haruka kissed Usagi, was she dreaming or did that actually take place.
She wakes up in bed with mamoru, in the future. She even gets married. o.O I don't see how that's confusing or "like a dream" at all. It makes it clear that she chose to start a new life.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:12 pm

I have to agree with the author of this topic. I watched Stars the anime first so I had no idea how vastly different the manga was. I was excited because I expected to see the sailors go out in glory and at first I was okay with the end though somewhat shaky on some things. Then after reading the manga I don't I'll ever enjoy the animated version of stars again. I understand the anime focused on Sailor Moons abilities to love and heal the enemy something I've ranted about quite a bit in the past, but my gods the changes in the final story arc was so blatant it makes my head hurt. I try to play devils advocate and justify why they didn't use the complete story line and the only thing I can think of is the slight religious overtones with the galaxy cauldron and rebirth and sailor moon's sacrifice. The anime also had me confused on the whole chibi chibi issue and what the heck she had been brought in for in the first place and ugh that Nehelania arc still bugs me as does the whole Super S series so I wont rant on that. Only it would have been nice to see the [spoiler]Amazoness return as Senshi[/spoiler] Like they did in the manga. Stuff like this, the wedding and just more lost character development bug me about the series in general. And to me I hate seeing strong female characters even if they are villains like the Shadow Galaxia reduced to bumbling pawns. Also you would have really seen Galaxia strength when she [spoiler]Reanimated the fallen Senshi to use against Sailor moon[/spoiler] Sigh there are just so many darn changes to stars that to me don't make sense but as I said before the only reasoning I can think is worrying about offending some peoples religious beliefs with the cauldron story. I still think its the same reason the witches 5 were so altered to I really would have preferred to see their manga version as well.

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Post by ReiMinako » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:45 pm

Omitting some of Stars due to slight religious overtones is an intersting point....I never thought of that before!

I really, really wish the anime had included the senshi under Galaxia's command. In the manga, that entire part was so chilling.

The part in Stars that has always bugged me is when Galaxia takes Mamoru's star seed on the plane. Mamoru tells Galaxia that she will not be able to take Earth because of the Sailor Senshi who guard it, and Galaxia looks surprised and confused. But didn't she already know of the senshi's existence if she was able to detect Hotaru's "unawakened" star seed? Not only did Galaxia know of the senshi on earth, she also knew that one of them was still a baby! So why does she react the way she does when Mamoru tells her about the senshi??

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:47 pm

ReiMinako wrote:Omitting some of Stars due to slight religious overtones is an intersting point....I never thought of that before!

I really, really wish the anime had included the senshi under Galaxia's command. In the manga, that entire part was so chilling.

The part in Stars that has always bugged me is when Galaxia takes Mamoru's star seed on the plane. Mamoru tells Galaxia that she will not be able to take Earth because of the Sailor Senshi who guard it, and Galaxia looks surprised and confused. But didn't she already know of the senshi's existence if she was able to detect Hotaru's "unawakened" star seed? Not only did Galaxia know of the senshi on earth, she also knew that one of them was still a baby! So why does she react the way she does when Mamoru tells her about the senshi??

Yeah I never understood that too, I chalk that up to a script error or general laziness because it was basically Galaxias job to find the Senshi who possessed the correct starseeds and if she didnt sense them how the heck would she have known to attack Mamoru on the plane in the first place? oye vey. And I fully agree that seeing Galaxia use the Senshi on Sailor Moon would have been great in the anime, but so much was lost in the conversion, and even though like Tiff said the Starlights had more development in the anime I think it could have been altered to where they still had their part and kept the original plot in tact as well. But then it would have needed Super S to be consistant with its manga counterpart as well which would have spared us the awful begining to stars in the first place ugh *goes off to dream about a remake of the series.*
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




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Post by sailor_moon_R » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:33 pm

Even though some people have already stated this, I would like to briefly touch on this. The animation of the series. I HATED IT LIKE WHEN YOU ARE IN THE FRIGE AND YOU FIND OUT YOUR BROTHER/SISTER DRANK THE DRINK YOU HAVE BEEN *DYING* TO DRINK AND YOU ARE SOOO MAD. Basically, the art blows, and its actually prettier to look at SuperS. Tiff, do you remember the episode of S when Uranus and Moon join forces. You know, with the Deimon (sp?) Tiern, (sp?) and Kaolinite (sp?) tries to murder Neptune? Well, I dislike THAT ANIMTION DIRECTOR. Do you remember that Stars episode when Luna was with Yaten like the whole episode? I Dislike the animation director. Oh my, I went off on how much I hate some SM animation directors. Well, anyway, even though I am semi off-topic, I will provide a link with some of the bad animation directors of sailor moon, in my opinion
http://www.wikimoon.org/index.php?title=Taichi_Nakamura and http://www.wikimoon.org/index.php?title ... iro_Kitano. I also noticed that MOST of the Sailor Stars animation directors have NEVER EVER did an episode BEFORE Stars, in terms of Sailor Moon. Also, I think that the episode in SuperS with Chibiusa's Love Rhapsody is one of the best animated episodes ever. Im sorry or going on about the animation even if the topic WAS for Sailor Stars, but I decided I'd point out to you guys the potential defect of Sailor Moon art in general. Oh, and when I mentioned the animation director for S, it was only becuse I thought you guys should know about it, since this topic DOES MENTION S, SS, and Stars.... in its ways:)
My favourite Cardcaptor Sakura quote *contains spoilers*:

Sakura: I love you Yukito-san!
Yukito: I love you too, but the one you love most isn''t me.
Sakura: *looks confused*
Yukito: You love your father right?
Sakura: Yes.
Yukito: And what about me?
Sakura: I love you.
Yukito: Aren''t the feelings quite similar?
Sakura: *realizes* They are. You have known for awhile haven''t you?
Yukito: Yes, you have always loved me as if I were a part of your family and I am grateful for that.
Sakura: Is there someone you love?
Yukito: Yes
Sakura: Is it..brother? (Touya)
Yukito: *eyes widen and then he smiles* Yes, I don''''t know what I would do without Toya. He made sure I didn''''t disappear.
Sakura: I''m sure he loves you too! He did everything to make sure you didn''t disappear! But if brother ever does anything to hurt my dearest Yukito-san, I will teacher him a lesson!
Yukito: *puts hand on her cheek* Thank you, Sakura-chan. When you find the one you love, if he ever hurts you, I will teach him a lesson.

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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:27 am

Ive gone on enough tangents about Super S and Stars but seriously seeing this thread again just reminds me of how they really could have kept the original story and made the finale series so much better. :( I didnt mind the artwork loved the starlights music (though Im not that big of a fan of the original theme opening to stars dunno why just doesnt grab me like the others)

But so many loose ends could have been tied up, an opening to an new series could have been brought out from it. So many questions that the anime left me with could have been answered even if I hadnt read the manga. I just dont see why they couldnt explain the cauldron, future galaxy wars and the like. Ive seen a heck of a lot worst put in animes now and even in the pasts had some. So I dunno probably would have been butchered to heck in the conversion anyway, and heck no one is even touching stars for north american dubbing so le sigh all i can do is read the series and day dream of it in animated form.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by Alexclow345 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:28 am

My entire post will probably contain spoilers on StarS, so I'm not going to bother with the spoiler tags.


I don't like how you always knew that the target of the day wasn't the right one(I guess this applies to Supers as well).

Oi. And the monsters of the day. Ugh! Why are they so silly? It's annoying. I mean like, some of the monsters don't do much. And the fact that none of the Inners(and outers) powers worked. I mean, they always miss! Tehy were more useful in C, R, and S.

The animation annoys me as well. I agree with sailor_moon_R. Some of the animation directors are bad. Episode 178 and 191 and 192 are good example of this. The characters just look so weird.

I also don't like how the Starlights are potrayed. They get WAY too much screentime. Every episode is focusing on one of them. It was fine in S, because in some episodes Haruka and Michiru barely appear at all. But then the Starlights come in and get all of the screentime.

And why do the characters die, just like that? Kakyuu appeared for like, 2 episodes. The inners, Saturn, and Pluto die quickly. It gets on my nerves they just died like that.

Also, what's up with making the characters either really stupid or really arrogant and annoying? Usagi for some reason got really stupid, with those lines she says in 179. And Taiki gets on my nerves so much. He/She gets to be a pain after a while. And the cats become more useless than ever.

I feel like this season is worse than SuperS, because it has MORE humor, the plot only really develops in the last half, and the filler is either really funny or really annoying. I feel like the plot should've been more like the manga, with the rest of Galaxia's minions(Phi and Chi, etc.) and more sailors.

I actually liked the Nehellenia part, except the fact that Mars and Neptune get trapped into mirrors for no reason whatsoever.


So, there ends my rant about StarS.
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Post by sailorperkytoot123 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:30 pm

I hated how Taiki was kind of bitchy all the time. Taiki is the only character out of the entire series that I hate. Yaten had an attitude problem too, but for some reason Taiki pissed me off the most. And it felt like Taiki got a lot of episodes based around him/her.

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Post by rockable » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:05 pm

I hated that
-the Three Lights are in practically every scene
-still too many victims of the day that get introductions and screentime even though no one cares
- no Rei and Makoto episodes except really lame ones :(
-the Inner Senshi are completely useless
-Setsuna and Hotaru barely appear at all :( (but at least there are some nice Haruka/Michiru moments)
-no Naru, Umino, Motoki or Yuichiro anywhere :cry:
-ChibiChibi is annyoing and pointless
-Lame ending
-the Seiya/Usagi scenes made me cringe
-the girls fawn over the Starlights like idiots
-Search for your Love over and over again


I just hated the Starlights, period. I wanted to see the characters that I care about and they kept hogging the spotlight. There were simply too many Senshi at this point, most of them barely got any development at all.

About the Nehelenia part: I disliked Mamoru getting brainwashed AGAIN and Martyr Usagi in the snow, but I really liked the unlikely Senshi pair-ups. Particularly Venus and Pluto. :)

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Post by Tiff » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:41 pm

rockable wrote: -ChibiChibi is annyoing and pointless
ChibiChibi may have been annoying, but the fact that she's Galaxia's starseed and the light of hope kinda makes her more than pointless. She's an integral part of the season.
-Lame ending
o.O I...don't quite see how. There's a crapload of death (some of it a bit violent at times), Usagi goes through a severe emotional rollercoaster, then turns into the messiah she's meant to be and rids the world of chaos. That's..."lame"?

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Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
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Post by AnimatedEvey12 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:49 pm

The only things that annoyed me about Sailor Stars were:
-Taiki, she annoyed me and seemed bitchy I agree with sailorperkytoot on that.
-Hotaru not really getting much screen time or a transformation sequence.
-The wedding being left out of the last episode-well actually I'm a bit split I am upset that it wasn't included but at the same time I know that Usagi and Mamoru will be together and have Chibi-usa and there's always the manga :D
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Post by sailorperkytoot123 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:13 pm

Tiff wrote:
rockable wrote: -ChibiChibi is annyoing and pointless
ChibiChibi may have been annoying, but the fact that she's Galaxia's starseed and the light of hope kinda makes her more than pointless. She's an integral part of the season.
-Lame ending
o.O I...don't quite see how. There's a crapload of death (some of it a bit violent at times), Usagi goes through a severe emotional rollercoaster, then turns into the messiah she's meant to be and rids the world of chaos. That's..."lame"?
I definitely have to agree with Tiff on these two points. Chibichibi was Galaxia's Star Seed after all, and she was the Light of Hope meant to defeat Chaos. To me, that is far from being pointless.

As for the ending, I didn't find it lame at all. It was one of the few scenes that made me feel like I was going to cry. And it wasn't the typical "Usagi mutilates the main enemy with the help of at least one other senshi" (well neither was SuperS but let's focus on Stars). Plus the fact that Usagi, the Starlights, and Galaxia were literally the only people still alive in the entire galaxy. If you really think it's lame I will respect that as your opinion, although I highly disagree with it.

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Post by rockable » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:07 am

I gues you're right..I don't know...it just annoyed me that the Inner Senshi are all dead after about 5 minutes and don't really do anything. And why the hell do they die for the Starlights? (except Rei..at least she remembered that she was supposed to protect Usagi) Don't they have a duty to protect Earth, not some aliens from another planet? It's like the writers couldn't think of anything to do with them, so they killed them off. That annoyed me so much that it ruined the entire ending for me.
Hotaru and Setsuna don't do anything either and their deaths are just so pointless. I ould have actually liked it better if they had all fought Galaxia and not just Usagi. I guess I just didn't like Usagi very much by this point.
I liked Haruka and Michiru's deaths though.
And I just didn't like ChibiChibi. She was too much cute overload. x_x But you're right, she was important being Galaxia's starseed and all, but I still don't like her.;)

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Post by Tiff » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:14 am

rockable wrote: Hotaru and Setsuna don't do anything either and their deaths are just so pointless.
Again..not pontless. Hotaru and Setsuna deliberately let Haruka and Michiru kill them so that hopefully Haruka and Michiru could turn on Galaxia and kill her. Their death was anything BUT pointless. They're essentially martyrs.

Joey: The question is, Rachel, does he like you? ''Cuz if he doesn''t, then it''s all just a moo point.
Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
Joey: Yeah. It''''s like a cow''s opinion. It doesn''t matter....It''s moo.
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Post by Senshi_of_Vision » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:15 am

To be fair in the manga the senshi and mamoru are all killed off quick to. Stars was poignant for that. To me the plot seemed more fleshed out though and the Animates as they are called were ruthless not bumbling so it was believable that they could make short work of the Inners who by that time were strong of their own account.

[spoiler]To me the most touching scene that could have been put in from the book but probably would have had peta up in arms was when they went after Luna and Artemis and Diana jumps in front of the blast to save her parents. I still get choked up by that panel when I read it. [/spoiler]


Stars was not a light read by any means and it was done some justice in the anime I think Id have been more pissed if the Inners and outers didnt die since Galaxia/Chaos were supposed to be the biggest threats in the galaxie. I think had they better explained the Sailor wars and explained that the star seeds (souls) contained the sailors powers better and that by collecting them Galaxia (with chaos controlling her) aimed to be the only sailor left ruling the galaxy. I just think a lot of the tones of the original would have been hard to get by filters for the religious and violent overtones. And because of who they marketed the show to it was easier to change everything.

Id still love to see the series redone with the original stories, sure it maybe quick but I think they could even use the filler stories the manga had and flesh it out.
"Have you been half asleep? And have youve heard voices?
I hear them calling my name."
Is this the sweet sound, that calls the young sailors?
The voice maybe one in the same.
Ive heard it too many times to ignore it,
its something that I sposed to be..
Someday we''''ll find it, the rainbow connection
The lover, the dreamer, and me..."




*Being a bad girl is such hard work....

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Post by sailorperkytoot123 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:27 pm

rockable wrote:I gues you're right..I don't know...it just annoyed me that the Inner Senshi are all dead after about 5 minutes and don't really do anything. And why the hell do they die for the Starlights? (except Rei..at least she remembered that she was supposed to protect Usagi) Don't they have a duty to protect Earth, not some aliens from another planet? It's like the writers couldn't think of anything to do with them, so they killed them off. That annoyed me so much that it ruined the entire ending for me.
Hotaru and Setsuna don't do anything either and their deaths are just so pointless. I ould have actually liked it better if they had all fought Galaxia and not just Usagi. I guess I just didn't like Usagi very much by this point.
I liked Haruka and Michiru's deaths though.
And I just didn't like ChibiChibi. She was too much cute overload. x_x But you're right, she was important being Galaxia's starseed and all, but I still don't like her.;)
I do see your point about the Inners protecting the Starlights. Now that I think about it, it IS their duty to protect Usagi. You could call it touching that Mars is the one to protect Usagi, but it's sort of strange that the other three would momentarily abandon that duty to protect the Starlights. In all truth, they probably could have stood in front of Usagi and still managed to protect the Starlights from the attack. I believe the order in which they were situated was Mars in front, Moon behind her, the other three Inners behind Usagi, and then the Starlights on the ground behind them. However, I do disagree with your statement about Hotaru and Setsuna's deaths, but Tiff pretty much already explained that point. Oh but I did like Uranus and Neptune's deaths. That was really sad and touching.

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Post by Kelsey » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:06 pm

otakugirl17 wrote:One last pet peeve I have of Stars is WHY Eternal Sailor Moon had wings, but never freaking USED them. What's the point of having them if she can't use them? That got on my NERVES in espisodes 198 and 199 were she kept falling without even making an ATTEMPT to fly. Instead she had to constantly be caught by Figher, which isn't bad since I'm a Seiya/Usagi fan, but STILL. She flew in the manga. Why not in the anime?
I know, that really annoyed me too! I also didn't like how they were drawn in the anime.

I haven't read the Stars manga yet, so I can't really comment on how much they changed the plot. I just looked it up on wikipedia, and it says that the last Stars volume wasn't released until after the last anime episode aired, so wouldn't it have been hard for them to keep the plots completely the same?

I loved the Nehelina(sp?) arc! I agree with someone else who said that it was great to see different senshi who didn't usually interact all that much work together. :D

I'm okay with the animation, I know it was a little different from the other seasons but I liked most of it. The only thing that I can think off of the top of my head that I didn't like about it was how they drew Rei as a kid. It was odd imo.

I like how Chibiusa wasn't really in this season. I got really sick of her in SuperS.

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Post by AnimatedEvey12 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:52 pm

otakugirl17 wrote:One last pet peeve I have of Stars is WHY Eternal Sailor Moon had wings, but never freaking USED them. What's the point of having them if she can't use them? That got on my NERVES in espisodes 198 and 199 were she kept falling without even making an ATTEMPT to fly. Instead she had to constantly be caught by Figher, which isn't bad since I'm a Seiya/Usagi fan, but STILL. She flew in the manga. Why not in the anime?
Well actually she only used her wings one time but that was in the Nehelenia Arc and that was because she wanted to go save Mamoru after he'd been brainwashed by Nehelenia but other that, she barely used them at all. The Eternal Sailor Moon fuku is my least favorite upgrade of Sailor in the anime at least. In the manga Eternal Sailor Moon looked better in the manga but in the anime not so much, don't really like the transformation either. Although I really wished all the senshi got their Eternal upgrades.
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