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the dooky
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Post by the dooky » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:16 am

We were actually discussing some sort of quotes section the other day, although I don't know what form it will take yet. I'll have a good look at Wikquote and see how they do it. As for your other suggestion - it would be interesting to rotate logos (although we like our current logo because it spoofs Wikipedia), but I don't know how easy this would be to achieve because of the strange way wikis are coded. I'm curious to know if it's possible, though, so I will look into it.
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Post by MarioKnight » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:37 am

It's definetly possible, and would probably not be too hard to code up. Even though the two differ in many ways, something wiki and phpBB have in common is that they are coded with php using mySQL (or other similar) databases. I coded a phpBB MOD to do just that, not randomly generated (though I can do that), but still set up what logo will be present. I will have to take a look into the wiki's code and see what I can whip up.
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wikimoon?

Post by maninexile » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:03 am

Hi all, is the wikimoon server down forever? because i haven't been able to get on wikimoon for quite a while. i just wanna confirm whether it's my network problem or is it that wikimoon's gone or undergoing some construction

Thanks! :wink:

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Re: wikimoon?

Post by MarioKnight » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:11 am

maninexile wrote:Hi all, is the wikimoon server down forever? because i haven't been able to get on wikimoon for quite a while. i just wanna confirm whether it's my network problem or is it that wikimoon's gone or undergoing some construction

Thanks! :wink:
Merging with existing WikiMoon thread.

As for your post, I don't know what to tell you really. I've been doing things on there for the past couple days, and just after seeing your post I double checked, and it's working fine for me. o.o
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Click here to have your voice heard to bring tokusatsu shows (such as PGSM) to this side of the ocean.

RIP
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This list seems to keep on growing. =(

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Post by maninexile » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:24 am

MarioKnight,

really? that really sucks :( am I the first person u've come across who can't get on wikimoon? :cry: :cry:

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Post by MarioKnight » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:34 am

Well not excatly, because there has been periods of time where there have actually been server problems. However I can't remember the last time that happened, and I've been doing some tweaks on some pages recentally, so it's not one of those periods of time right now. It's not my server or being run by me on that high a level (I have SysOp powers, but no server powers there) so I don't really know what to say. As far as I know, for whatever reason, you're the only one having problems. Sorry I can't be of more help.
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Warriors of Legend: Reflections of Japan in Sailor Moon - Book on sale now! Please support!

Click here to have your voice heard to bring tokusatsu shows (such as PGSM) to this side of the ocean.

RIP
Sam DeNato: 1/11/07
Kevin Watt: 10/7/07
Evan Schoberlein - 7/24/08


This list seems to keep on growing. =(

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Post by maninexile » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:43 am

ahh that's alright, tough luck. there's not much u can do ne

if it's possible and if u have access to the server people, may i ask you to inform the server team that there are interested people who can't access the site? my location is in hong kong. my contact is [email protected] .

at your convenience, of course. i know there aren't too much that the server people could do. i just hope they are aware of this problem. thank you again!

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Post by bioengineer » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:19 am

If the knowledge base is created by fan submiited articles then what is preventing disinformation?

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Post by Elanorea » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:48 am

Nothing prevents submitting misinformation, but nothing prevents anyone from correcting it either. Also, if somebody deliberately and repeatedly submits misinformation in order to confuse others, they will be banned.
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Post by Aya Reiko » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:00 pm

The problem would be differentiating between all the various conventions. One, there's all the differences between the anime, manga, and PGSM. And two, there's all the differences between the sub and all the various dubs out there (and I'm not just talking about the DiC/Cloverway one too).
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Post by Elanorea » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:28 am

That hasn't turned out to be much of a problem as of yet. The way we have it, if the subject of the article exists in more than one "main" continuity (anime, manga, PGSM, musicals), we have subsections on all relevant continuities. Generally, anime section is first, and subsequent sections mention only what's different from previous sections. We have articles on the different dubs (though not all of them yet), but we usually do not mention dub information in other articles, except for very significant changes.

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Post by Cardcaptor Takato » Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:14 pm

bioengineer wrote:If the knowledge base is created by fan submiited articles then what is preventing disinformation?
If the knowledge base of the SMU is created by fans, what's to prevent disinformation from the SMU (I'm not saying the SMU spreads misinformation; I'm just using an example)? I don't see any difference betweeen WikiMoon or a fan creating a Sailor Moon site. Sailor Moon sites are created by fans and you have to trust what they say is reliable, but there's still a chance that the information they present at their site is unreliable. *coughthesoscough* I actually think WikiMoon could be more helpful than a regular website because with a regular website you can't correct misinformation unless you email the creator of the site and there's still the chance that the site creator will ignore you, but on Wikimoon you can edit the site yourself if you find some inaccurate info. Fans are also more likely to believe what's on a regular website whether it's true or not than they are on a site like Wikimoon which makes it clear that there's a possiblity some info can be incorrect which is why the edit button is available for use. It's certainly no more inaccurate than the actual Wikipedia and it's certainly a lot more trustworthy than certain online Sailor Moon campaign websites. Just because something is on a regular website doesn't mean it's always accurate, likewise just because something is on WikiMoon doesn't mean it's always inaccurate, either.
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Post by Aya Reiko » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 pm

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
bioengineer wrote:If the knowledge base is created by fan submiited articles then what is preventing disinformation?
If the knowledge base of the SMU is created by fans, what's to prevent disinformation from the SMU (I'm not saying the SMU spreads misinformation; I'm just using an example)? I don't see any difference betweeen WikiMoon or a fan creating a Sailor Moon site. Sailor Moon sites are created by fans and you have to trust what they say is reliable, but there's still a chance that the information they present at their site is unreliable. *coughthesoscough* I actually think WikiMoon could be more helpful than a regular website because with a regular website you can't correct misinformation unless you email the creator of the site and there's still the chance that the site creator will ignore you, but on Wikimoon you can edit the site yourself if you find some inaccurate info. Fans are also more likely to believe what's on a regular website whether it's true or not than they are on a site like Wikimoon which makes it clear that there's a possiblity some info can be incorrect which is why the edit button is available for use. It's certainly no more inaccurate than the actual Wikipedia and it's certainly a lot more trustworthy than certain online Sailor Moon campaign websites. Just because something is on a regular website doesn't mean it's always accurate, likewise just because something is on WikiMoon doesn't mean it's always inaccurate, either.
A better example is if a dub fan who knows nothing of the sub creates an article and a sub fan who knows nothing of the dub edits that article later on. Or vice versa. There needs to be a standard that would satisfy both, and make it universal across all pages.

I really dislike the unified standard of lumping the characters together on the bottom. It's confusing and if someone is not familar with all three series, they'll be quite lost. PGSM, the anime, and the manga start at about the same point, but ultimately go in three completely separate directions.

My recommendation:
Disambiguate all articles by anime, manga, and PGSM. (I'm not sure how to handle the musicals yet, maybe they should be a fourth group.) All follow different storys, and some characters aren't the same.

... And looking at the Sailor Heavy Metal Papillon article, we really need to learn how to use footnotes properly.
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Post by the dooky » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:45 pm

Aya Reiko wrote:My recommendation:
Disambiguate all articles by anime, manga, and PGSM. (I'm not sure how to handle the musicals yet, maybe they should be a fourth group.) All follow different storys, and some characters aren't the same.
This idea was discussed early on and rejected. Firstly, it would make something as simple as linking to another article into a needlessly complicated process (for anyone familiar with wiki markup, we'd be using pipe links almost all of the time, and that would confuse new users even more. Plus, there are far too many continuities for it to be practical. As well as anime and PGSM, you have three separate manga continuities (as Princess Kaguya's Lover and Parallel Sailor Moon occur outside normal continuity), plus the musicals, all of which occur within their own micro-continuities... oh, and don't forget the dubs, and the foreign-language manga adaptations. And that isn't even covering things like games, audio dramas and so on.

The agreed standard, which I'll concede is not being used universally, is that every article on a character starts by explaining in which continuities the character is found, and from then on, each continuity is described separately. I don't see what is confusing about this.
... And looking at the Sailor Heavy Metal Papillon article, we really need to learn how to use footnotes properly.
Could you elaborate?
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Post by Sailorasteroid » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:16 am

I would suggest, if possible, that typing a name in the "go" box family-name-first should redirect to the page of the person instead of going to the search page. (Actually I think that the pages should have been set up family-name-first, but it's probably too late to change that now)
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Tempest___________________Peachvampiress (I think)
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I <3 all you guys!

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Post by Aya Reiko » Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:19 pm

the dooky wrote:
Aya Reiko wrote:My recommendation:
Disambiguate all articles by anime, manga, and PGSM. (I'm not sure how to handle the musicals yet, maybe they should be a fourth group.) All follow different storys, and some characters aren't the same.
This idea was discussed early on and rejected. Firstly, it would make something as simple as linking to another article into a needlessly complicated process (for anyone familiar with wiki markup, we'd be using pipe links almost all of the time, and that would confuse new users even more. Plus, there are far too many continuities for it to be practical. As well as anime and PGSM, you have three separate manga continuities (as Princess Kaguya's Lover and Parallel Sailor Moon occur outside normal continuity), plus the musicals, all of which occur within their own micro-continuities... oh, and don't forget the dubs, and the foreign-language manga adaptations. And that isn't even covering things like games, audio dramas and so on.

The agreed standard, which I'll concede is not being used universally, is that every article on a character starts by explaining in which continuities the character is found, and from then on, each continuity is described separately. I don't see what is confusing about this.
... And looking at the Sailor Heavy Metal Papillon article, we really need to learn how to use footnotes properly.
Could you elaborate?
1. You really should rethink that position. Especially when it comes to characters like Chibiusa. To differentiate between anime Chibiusa and manga Chibiusa, you'll ultimately be forced to write two separate articles due to the sheer diffences between the two. And there are plenty of other characters who'll fit that bill also. (Especially for PGSM.) Above everything, all three series cannot be treated as if they are a part of the same continuity. They must be regarded separately and treated separately.

2. Go to almost any random Wikipedia article. See those tiny numbers within the article? Those are footnotes. They link to the refenences section on the bottom of the article. Instead of saying "based on information in the Materials Collection", simply use a footnote. Really useful if you reference the same thing multiple times and properly reference the source material (i.e. ISBN, page, year, etc.).

As it is now, WikiMoon looks rediculously unprofessional, overly jumbled, and likely confusing to anyone not familiar with every series. It is especially bad if someone wants info from something other than the anime. The course the thing is on now will result in something not much better than what can already be found elsewhere. If not possibly worse due to the jumbling of information.
Sailorasteroid wrote:I would suggest, if possible, that typing a name in the "go" box family-name-first should redirect to the page of the person instead of going to the search page. (Actually I think that the pages should have been set up family-name-first, but it's probably too late to change that now)
Agree and totally disagree.

Typeing the family-name-first should redirect to the correct article. However, the standard should be the western-standard. The articles should be written as if explaining something to a person who knows nothing. Since that same person would not know the different name order conventions between east and west, it should remain in the familiar (to them) family-name-last standard.
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Post by Sailorasteroid » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:03 pm

Well, it's customary in an offline encyclopaedia for people to be listed by surname-comma-given-name, as it keeps related people together. If you brought up a list of characters, wouldn't you want Tsukino Usagi and Tsukino Shingo to be next to each other instead of Usagi Tsukino and Unazuki Furuhata?
Things I think Are Funny Early in the Morning: If Batman were a Smurf: "Quick, Robin! We must smurf down to the Batcave and smurf the Batplane! Then we must smurf the batsmurf so we can smurf where the Joker is smurfing!"

The Croonerism Spate (explanations upon request)
Be careful with this one, there is a bit of a pun involved. Dr. Spooner described his visit to a castle: "In the center of the fortress was the Palace Court. The gated entrance to this area was the court palace."

Users whose sigs my quotes have made (now in two columns)
Tempest___________________Peachvampiress (I think)
Sylphiel (twice!)____________Neon Heart
RoastedTwinkies (long ago)___Alexclow345
Seiusa____________________Nehelenia`s Crazy Fangirl

I <3 all you guys!

490

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Post by the dooky » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:22 pm

Aya Reiko wrote:1. You really should rethink that position. Especially when it comes to characters like Chibiusa. To differentiate between anime Chibiusa and manga Chibiusa, you'll ultimately be forced to write two separate articles due to the sheer diffences between the two. And there are plenty of other characters who'll fit that bill also. (Especially for PGSM.) Above everything, all three series cannot be treated as if they are a part of the same continuity. They must be regarded separately and treated separately.
Precisely. Which is why each character page is (or will ultimately be) split along lines of continuity. I'm well aware of the importance of keeping continuities separate, and in fact I was initially in favour of separate pages for each continuity. That was until I realised how much more difficult it would be for new users to add anything, the huge amount of work that other users would have to do correcting all their links... Not to mention the prospect of searching for any major character's name, and being taken to a disambiguation page before you can get to any actual content. I would consider that to be more bewlidering and needlessly complicated for new users.
2. Go to almost any random Wikipedia article. See those tiny numbers within the article? Those are footnotes. They link to the refenences section on the bottom of the article. Instead of saying "based on information in the Materials Collection", simply use a footnote. Really useful if you reference the same thing multiple times and properly reference the source material (i.e. ISBN, page, year, etc.).
WikiMoon is not Wikipedia. Simply because Wikipedia uses a certain convention, that doesn't make it necessary for us to use it as well.
As it is now, WikiMoon looks rediculously unprofessional, overly jumbled, and likely confusing to anyone not familiar with every series. It is especially bad if someone wants info from something other than the anime. The course the thing is on now will result in something not much better than what can already be found elsewhere. If not possibly worse due to the jumbling of information.
The project is in its infancy. Of course parts of it are incomplete and poorly organised. It's user-driven content, and how it progresses is up to the userbase. If this matters to you, you are of course welcome to make an account and raise your opinions on the site itself.
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Post by C.h.a.r.m. » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:06 pm

I bookmarked the page as soon as it finished loading. WikiMoon rocks!!!

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Post by Aya Reiko » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:22 pm

the dooky wrote:
Aya Reiko wrote:1. You really should rethink that position. Especially when it comes to characters like Chibiusa. To differentiate between anime Chibiusa and manga Chibiusa, you'll ultimately be forced to write two separate articles due to the sheer diffences between the two. And there are plenty of other characters who'll fit that bill also. (Especially for PGSM.) Above everything, all three series cannot be treated as if they are a part of the same continuity. They must be regarded separately and treated separately.
Precisely. Which is why each character page is (or will ultimately be) split along lines of continuity. I'm well aware of the importance of keeping continuities separate, and in fact I was initially in favour of separate pages for each continuity. That was until I realised how much more difficult it would be for new users to add anything, the huge amount of work that other users would have to do correcting all their links... Not to mention the prospect of searching for any major character's name, and being taken to a disambiguation page before you can get to any actual content. I would consider that to be more bewlidering and needlessly complicated for new users.
How hard is Usagi (Anime), Usagi (Manga), and Usagi (Live-Action)? Just set the anime as the default with disambiguations links at the top. Just put at the top of the article, "This article refers to the protrayal of Usagi Tsukino in the anime. For the magna version, see 'Usagi Tsukino (manga)' or for the live-action version, see 'Usagi Tsukino (Live-Action)'," with appropiate links.

By lumping it all on one page, you invite trouble. Sooner or later, some confused fan will edit out non-anime info or something like that. Ultimately, it'll evolve into something that mostly ignores the manga and the live-action series. By giving each facet there own space, it should reduce the potential of fan confusion.

Above all, build it for an audience who knows absolutely nothing on what you're saying.

Though somewhat dated, The Amazoness Quartette's Page Tips Guide might be of some use. In particular, "Research Tips", "How to Borrow", and "Info Mistakes" articles would be most useful to the WikiMoon.
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