Return of the first Shitennou: Senshi beware!

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Return of the first Shitennou: Senshi beware!

Post by Gamer8585 » Thu May 11, 2006 11:48 pm

I had a strange idea for a future concept for Sailor Moon for a while and I was hoping to get some feedback on it:

Back when I first saw the dub I noticed that Jadite's "Death" was a little strange since he never got killed, just kind of put into a type of cryostasis and then banished into some kind of pocket dimension. While the show went on I let this strange event slip my mind.

When the Black Moon (Negamoon) Clan showed up I noticed that Wiseman sounded a lot like Jadeite, well that lead me to thinking about what happened to the first of the ol Shitennou.

What if Jadeite ever escaped from his eternal prison/sleep? 1) he would be mighty pissed off, 2) He would know the identities of 3 of the senshi, 3) I assume still likes to play with fire, and would probably carry though with an old threat.

Now my thoughts would end here, but I then remembered Luna mentioning that the Crescent Moon Wand was "lost" (how someone as responsible as Luna could let something that powerful stay lost is beyond me; way to drop the ball there kitty [I actually have a whole rant on this, but that's neither here nor there]).

Well I figure that if Jadeite was ever to make it out he would come back to the exact place he disappeared from and in his initial wandering would probably stumble across the CMW (seeing as how it would most likely be around the North Pole; the last place it was).

Exactly where my mind has taken this scenario, is varied and mostly uninteresting. I just thought I would throw this topic out there for discussion and speculation.

BTW, I'm aware that this scenario can not square with the magna, because of the way that the particulars were changed in the anime.
Last edited by Gamer8585 on Sun May 14, 2006 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by djtaylor » Fri May 12, 2006 7:47 am

I've thought about this often, I think Jedite's Return could make an awesome "movie" sequel.

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Post by Sailormars Obsessed fan » Fri May 12, 2006 8:47 am

actually I have thought of this as well and added other characters. Mimet and sailor lead crow are unnaccounted for in the end. One is trapped in some kind of cyber world that we know nothing about and the other was swallowed up by a black hole and if you have seen the movie "The Black Hole" this doesnt mean she is dead. Perhaps they along with Jedite all escaped whever they ended up and teamed up. Also we never actually saw Rubius die so perhaps he escaped as well I know its a bit silly but why not? I love crossover stories like that ^_^

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Post by Gamer8585 » Fri May 12, 2006 10:08 am

Sailormars Obsessed fan wrote: Also we never actually saw Rubius die so perhaps he escaped as well I know its a bit silly but why not? I love crossover stories like that ^_^
It wasn't on screen but I think its clearly implied that he was caught in the explosion of his UFO. It would be nice to get him back, but it would realy require streching logic a little more then any of the others.
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Post by Sailormars Obsessed fan » Fri May 12, 2006 2:26 pm

It wasn't on screen but I think its clearly implied that he was caught in the explosion of his UFO. It would be nice to get him back, but it would really require stretching logic a little more then any of the others.
you are right it is clearly implied that he is dead, however since it was never shown there are ways that his survival could be explained. Perhaps a mysterious entity saved him at the last second (there is precedent for this kinda thing to happen in sailormoon cannon.)

Or maybe he had hidden a teleporter on the ship and used it last second to escape. There are several ways to do it and not be silly about it.

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Post by Gamer8585 » Fri May 12, 2006 2:46 pm

Sailormars Obsessed fan wrote:
It wasn't on screen but I think its clearly implied that he was caught in the explosion of his UFO. It would be nice to get him back, but it would really require stretching logic a little more then any of the others.
you are right it is clearly implied that he is dead, however since it was never shown there are ways that his survival could be explained. Perhaps a mysterious entity saved him at the last second (there is precedent for this kinda thing to happen in sailormoon cannon.)

Or maybe he had hidden a teleporter on the ship and used it last second to escape. There are several ways to do it and not be silly about it.
If he had a teleporter he wouldn't have looked so freeked out when Esmarude wouldn't save him, plus he never would have begged for her help in the first place. The ship was also losing power because Chibi-Usa messed with the black crystal that powered it. So I don't think Rubeus could have saved himself. Even if he weathered the explosion they were out in space, so he could have been frozen due to lack of temperature, or he could have fried from direct exposure to assorted amounts of radiation, even if neither happened the pressure inside his body would have caused him to explode in a very messy and graphic way.

As for someone else coming to his rescue...who would do it? The senshi were just glad to get off the UFO in time, Wiseman didn't give a rats ass about Rubeus anyway, Esmarude was laughing at him, and Dimande and Sahphir just thought it was a battle causality. So any of the current villains or hero's just don't seem likely saviors.

Although, if we get back to the initial topic of this thread, and assume that Jadeite came back and found the CMW then I guess he could have saved Rubeus, in exchange for fealty. Ah, speculation..and the start of a good movie idea, IMHO.
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Post by Sailormars Obsessed fan » Fri May 12, 2006 4:48 pm

although, if we get back to the initial topic of this thread, and assume that Jadeite came back and found the CMW then I guess he could have saved Rubeus, in exchange for fealty. Ah, speculation..and the start of a good movie idea, IMHO.
Thats kinda what I was talking about in reguards to someone saving Rubus (I admit now the teleporter idea is kind of weak) There is no way any of the Dark Moon family would expend the effort.

And I think having some kind of story that ties up Jedeites ultimate fate would be cool too. I always though since he didnt actually die there is always the chance he would return.

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Post by jupiter23 » Fri May 12, 2006 4:59 pm

Sailormars Obsessed fan wrote:actually I have thought of this as well and added other characters. Mimet and sailor lead crow are unnaccounted for in the end.
Now Mimete coming back is plausible, since she wasn't actually killed, but I doubt it about Sailor Lead Crow. She was a Sailor Soldier who fell under Galaxia's control, and once Galaxia's power over her was released, she would have had no reason to keep fighting. If you remember Sailor Tin Nyanko's bracelet getting destroyed by Sailor Moon, the good side of her was arguing with the brainwashed side.

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Re: Return of the first Shitennou: Senshi beware!

Post by bioengineer » Fri May 12, 2006 6:31 pm

Gamer8585 wrote:I had a strange idea for a future concept for Sailor Moon for a while and I was hoping to get some feedback on it:

Back when I first saw the dub I noticed that Jadite's "Death" was a little strange since he never got killed, just kind of put into a type of cryostasis and then banished into some kind of pocket dimension. While the show went on I let this strange event slip my mind.

When the Black Moon (Negamoon) Clan showed up I noticed that Wiseman sounded a lot like Jadeite, well that lead me to thinking about what happened to the first of the ol Shitennou.

What if Jadeite ever escaped from his eternal prison/sleep? 1) he would be mighty pissed off, 2) He would know the identities of 3 of the senshi, 3) I assume still likes to play with fire, and would probably carry though with an old threat.

Now my thoughts would end here, but I then remembered Luna mentioning that the Crescent Moon Wand was "lost" (how someone as responsible as Luna could let something that powerful stay lost is beyond me; way to drop the ball there kitty [I actually have a whole rant on this, but that's neither here nor there]).

Well I figure that if Jadeite was ever to make it out he would come back to the exact place he disappeared from and in his initial wandering would probably stumble across the CMW (seeing as how it would most likely be around the North Pole; the last place it was).


BTW, I'm aware that this scenario can not square with the magna, because of the way that the particulars were changed in the anime.
Interesting premise. If Jedite did come back, then it would be strange for him to go after the senshi again. 1. The Dark Kingdom is destroyed, so he would have no power. 2 outnumbered - 9 senshi vs an ex-general is highly lopsided. Unless he has allies, thats a different story.

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Re: Return of the first Shitennou: Senshi beware!

Post by Gamer8585 » Fri May 12, 2006 6:39 pm

bioengineer wrote: Interesting premise. If Jedite did come back, then it would be strange for him to go after the senshi again. 1. The Dark Kingdom is destroyed, so he would have no power. 2 outnumbered - 9 senshi vs an ex-general is highly lopsided. Unless he has allies, thats a different story.
Plus he knows who 3 of the senshi are, all he has to do is follow them to find the rest. (send a youma out as a distraction and watch who transforms). Then he could just knife them in their sleep...simple, but probably wouldn't make for the best movie.
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Re: Return of the first Shitennou: Senshi beware!

Post by NameGoesHere » Sat May 13, 2006 1:14 am

Gamer8585 wrote:(how someone as responsible as Luna could let something that powerful stay lost is beyond me; way to drop the ball there kitty [I actually have a whole rant on this, but that's neither here nor there])
She could have meant lost in the "seven lives were lost" sense. No one actually misplaced anything, but it sure as hell isn't coming back.

The Moon Stick wouldn't be all that powerful without the Ginzuishou attached to it, but I suppose it could be used for something dastardly. If it even responded to someone outside of the Moon family, that is.

Why Sailor Moon could get the Ginzuishou back, which was attached to the Moon Stick, without actually getting the Moon Stick itself is the real stumper. Of course, tiara aside, all of Sailor Moon's old weapons seemed to vanish when she got an upgrade. The Moon Stick may have blinked out of existence when she got the Cutie Moon Rod in the Makaiju arc.

There is no reason why Jadeite wouldn't still have his regular powers, though. The Dark Kingdom denizens never showed reliance on a central power source, unlike the Black Moon Family. If he were to collect enough energy, he could pose a threat, but I wouldn't bother with the "finding the Moon Stick" plot device. It would require too much back-tracking and explanation for it to make sense and be entertaining.
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Re: Return of the first Shitennou: Senshi beware!

Post by bioengineer » Sat May 13, 2006 2:17 am

Gamer8585 wrote:
bioengineer wrote: Interesting premise. If Jedite did come back, then it would be strange for him to go after the senshi again. 1. The Dark Kingdom is destroyed, so he would have no power. 2 outnumbered - 9 senshi vs an ex-general is highly lopsided. Unless he has allies, thats a different story.
Plus he knows who 3 of the senshi are, all he has to do is follow them to find the rest. (send a youma out as a distraction and watch who transforms). Then he could just knife them in their sleep...simple, but probably wouldn't make for the best movie.

A knife would not do the trick. Senshi are very tough to kill. In the anime they have been subject to countless energy blasts, projectile attacks, and even surviving the vacuum of space. Even Mamoru who is not senshi is pretty tough.
Unless Jedite becomes as powerful as Galaxia, then he may have a chance. Even then there is a problem since to permenatly kill them off requires destroying thier star seeds(which in turn needs a specific place to be destroyed ie Galaxy Cauldorn).

Im not shooting down your idea, just there are a few things which I find odd.

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Re: Return of the first Shitennou: Senshi beware!

Post by Gamer8585 » Sat May 13, 2006 9:15 am

bioengineer wrote:
Gamer8585 wrote:
bioengineer wrote: Interesting premise. If Jedite did come back, then it would be strange for him to go after the senshi again. 1. The Dark Kingdom is destroyed, so he would have no power. 2 outnumbered - 9 senshi vs an ex-general is highly lopsided. Unless he has allies, thats a different story.
Plus he knows who 3 of the senshi are, all he has to do is follow them to find the rest. (send a youma out as a distraction and watch who transforms). Then he could just knife them in their sleep...simple, but probably wouldn't make for the best movie.

A knife would not do the trick. Senshi are very tough to kill. In the anime they have been subject to countless energy blasts, projectile attacks, and even surviving the vacuum of space. Even Mamoru who is not senshi is pretty tough.
Unless Jedite becomes as powerful as Galaxia, then he may have a chance. Even then there is a problem since to permenatly kill them off requires destroying thier star seeds(which in turn needs a specific place to be destroyed ie Galaxy Cauldorn).

Im not shooting down your idea, just there are a few things which I find odd.
I ment knife them when they were not transformed, you know normal, human, squishy, prone to stabing. Plus whenever they faced a youma with a blade they never seemed to want to take a chance that their salior suits would protect them.

Plus if he vists the Tsukino household first he can kill two birds (rabbits?) with one stone...er knife (emilination of Sailor Moon and Chibi-Moon). Then he could take the Ginsuizhou.
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Re: Return of the first Shitennou: Senshi beware!

Post by Gamer8585 » Sat May 13, 2006 9:26 am

NameGoesHere wrote:
Gamer8585 wrote:(how someone as responsible as Luna could let something that powerful stay lost is beyond me; way to drop the ball there kitty [I actually have a whole rant on this, but that's neither here nor there])
She could have meant lost in the "seven lives were lost" sense. No one actually misplaced anything, but it sure as hell isn't coming back.

The Moon Stick wouldn't be all that powerful without the Ginzuishou attached to it, but I suppose it could be used for something dastardly. If it even responded to someone outside of the Moon family, that is.

Why Sailor Moon could get the Ginzuishou back, which was attached to the Moon Stick, without actually getting the Moon Stick itself is the real stumper. Of course, tiara aside, all of Sailor Moon's old weapons seemed to vanish when she got an upgrade. The Moon Stick may have blinked out of existence when she got the Cutie Moon Rod in the Makaiju arc.

There is no reason why Jadeite wouldn't still have his regular powers, though. The Dark Kingdom denizens never showed reliance on a central power source, unlike the Black Moon Family. If he were to collect enough energy, he could pose a threat, but I wouldn't bother with the "finding the Moon Stick" plot device. It would require too much back-tracking and explanation for it to make sense and be entertaining.
I always thought that the CMW acted as a type of amplifier, so if Jadeite found it he could increase his own powers (+5 to MAG for all you RPG players out there). I think that finding the "Moon Stick" would be somewhat nessicary if he wants to fight agaisnt 10 senshi and keep his own followers in line.

It would probably respond to anyone that uses it like the Ginzuishou. Or else it makes the Dark Kingdom and the Black Moon Clan seem realy stupid for trying so hard to get it.
Last edited by Gamer8585 on Sun May 14, 2006 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tiff » Sat May 13, 2006 11:42 am

ADMIN MODE:

Gamer8585:

Please do not double post.

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Post by Gamer8585 » Sat May 13, 2006 11:53 am

Tiff wrote:ADMIN MODE:

Gamer8585:

Please do not double post.

http://www.smuncensored.com/forums/rules.php#8

Thank you.
W00Ps. Sorry, I wanted to reply to two different posts and I wasn't sure how to get both quotes into one post. I'll refrain from doing that in the future.
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Re: Return of the first Shitennou: Senshi beware!

Post by NameGoesHere » Sat May 13, 2006 3:08 pm

Gamer8585 wrote:I always thought that the CMW acted as a type of amplifier, so if Jadeite found it he could increase his own powers (+5 to MAG for all you RPG players out there). I think that finding the "Moon Stick" would be somewhat nessicary if he wants to fight agaisnt 10 senshi and keep his own followers in line.

It would probably respond to anyone that uses it like the Ginzuishou. Or else it makes the Dark Kingdom and the Black Moon Clan seem realy stupid for trying so hard to get it.
I don't recall the Ginzuishou ever being utilized by someone outside of the moon family, so perhaps it's one of those mystical ironies. You can dig your own grave trying to get it, but the senshi will all point and laugh when it fizzles out on you in your moment of triumph.

The Moon Stick could be the same way. +5 MAG, for lunar elementals only.

I still believe that Jadeite could pose a threat without the Moon Stick, if he played it smart. Of course, a man who thinks the name "J. Daito" is a good cover might need a little work in that department.
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Re: Return of the first Shitennou: Senshi beware!

Post by Gamer8585 » Sat May 13, 2006 3:41 pm

NameGoesHere wrote:
Gamer8585 wrote:I always thought that the CMW acted as a type of amplifier, so if Jadeite found it he could increase his own powers (+5 to MAG for all you RPG players out there). I think that finding the "Moon Stick" would be somewhat nessicary if he wants to fight agaisnt 10 senshi and keep his own followers in line.

It would probably respond to anyone that uses it like the Ginzuishou. Or else it makes the Dark Kingdom and the Black Moon Clan seem realy stupid for trying so hard to get it.
I don't recall the Ginzuishou ever being utilized by someone outside of the moon family, so perhaps it's one of those mystical ironies. You can dig your own grave trying to get it, but the senshi will all point and laugh when it fizzles out on you in your moment of triumph.

The Moon Stick could be the same way. +5 M, for lunar elementals only.

I still believe that Jadeite could pose a threat without the Moon Stick, if he played it smart. Of course, a man who thinks the name "J. Daito" is a good cover might need a little work in that department.

Well I think its a fine cover if no one knows your name, plus I always thought he did it just to mock people.

Just because its never been utilized by anyone outside of the Moon family (to our knowldge) dosen't mean it can't. Who would take the risk of giving it to someone else?

Can you imagine if the senshi found out that it couldn't be used by anyone else...well I can:

Sailor Moon: So its agreed, we give you the Ginzuishou and you stop steeling people's energy.

Queen Beryl: Deal.

Sailor Moon: Here ya go (Sucker)

Queen Beryl: What?

Sailor Moon: Oh nothing, have fun.

*Later at the Dark Kindom lair*

Queen Beryl: Oh, great Metalia I present to you the Ginzuishou!

Metalia: Excellet Beryl, your not as useless as you look. Now get using it, I have a universe to dominate.

Queen Beryl:....hehehe, it dosen't seem to work...

Metalia: BERYL!!!!!!

*Later Beryl finds Sailor Moon and slams the Ginzuishou in her hand*

Queen Beryl: Bitch.

Sailor Moon: (giggle)

*Scene fade out*
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Post by #1SailorMoonFan » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:27 am

I always thought I was the only one who thought about this. It would be so awesome if Naoko decided to do one more special where Mimet, Lead Crow, and Jadeite team up to destroy the Senshi. Though chances of that happening are dismal. Where exactly DID Beryl send him? She DID say "you will fall to the bottom of darkness, never to return". Though, if Mimet and Lead Crow escaped they could possibly get him out. But that brings out a plot hole. And exactly WHERE is the Bottom of Darkness? Did it get destroyed when the Dark Kingdom got destroyed?

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Post by Gamer8585 » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:33 pm

#1SailorMoonFan wrote:I always thought I was the only one who thought about this. It would be so awesome if Naoko decided to do one more special where Mimet, Lead Crow, and Jadeite team up to destroy the Senshi. Though chances of that happening are dismal. Where exactly DID Beryl send him? She DID say "you will fall to the bottom of darkness, never to return". Though, if Mimet and Lead Crow escaped they could possibly get him out. But that brings out a plot hole. And exactly WHERE is the Bottom of Darkness? Did it get destroyed when the Dark Kingdom got destroyed?
I don't think that Takeuchi-san would do such a special, because in the manga Jadite is immolatied by Rei's Akuryo-Taisan. It would probably be Toei's writers that would have to do it.

In the sub's I got Beryl says "Sleep for eternity!" So I always imagined it to be some kind of cryostasis followed by being shoved into a makeshift pocket diminsion. I guess the crux of the punisment is that one's soul can never find peace because its eternaly trapped in a body.

I also thought that he could get out via the "Dead Moon." If he is asleep then he probably would want to have a little chat with Nehelenia (or maybe he would just be on his own wild pegasus chase).
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