DiC vs. Cloverway

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DiC vs. Cloverway

Post by ParaKiss_Groupie » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:25 pm

I just want to know, who do you think did better with Sailor Moon? I prefer the DiC dub to the Cloverway one, myself. DiC messed everything up, but at least they were consistent, and you could understand why they cut MOST of what was cut. The only things I liked more about Cloverway was the absence of Sailor Says, the original music, and "the pretty soldier." But Cloverway was just too inconsistent for me. What about everyone else? Oh, and "I hate them both" is not an answer. Even if you do, which one do you prefer?
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Post by Starscream » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:29 pm

Inconsistency >>>> butchering any day. I didn't like Cloverway voices, I didn't like Cloverway names, and I didn't like Cloverway dialog/personality edits, but when you ruin three of the best episodes in the show, you get put on my "You Suck" list. Hell, I can even forgive the butchering of 45+46...but it was what they did to "The Moon Princess Appears" that really pissed me off. It's so irritating, I don't even want to get into it for fear of exploding</rant mode>
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Post by Tiff » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:35 pm

Woo boy, that's tough.
Well, as you said, Cloverway was VERY inconsistant..but I did love all of the names, music, and attacks they kept in...
Whereas DiC felt the need to change EVERYTHING....
They both had stupid dialog, DiC moreso americanized and just..stupid..Cloverway moreso idiotic, 90's slang...
T_T *rips hair out*
I'm gonna go with Cloverway. As Starscream says..DiC just BUTCHERED so many episodes.

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Post by LadyFlameSniper » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:39 pm

Well the inconsistencies and voices were Optimum productions (or as I like to call them "Opium" Productions" fault) not CWI's, from what I understand. So I prefer CWI. They made less changes, kept the original music, and did eventually air all of the episodes. DiC skipped 6 eps, combined two into one, made tons of changes, and edits, and had crappy BGM. The only thing I like about them is SOME of their songs.
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Post by MarioKnight » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:41 pm

I would vote DiC for better dub. To put it as basically as I can, they did more work and it showed. They had an agenda with the franchise and made a great product out of it. Sure they cut a lot of stuff, majority unnecessary, and made their own music, but it all came out to be a great product, as long as it's not compared to the original that is. If seen standalone, then it was great.

CWi on the otherhand fails in both matters. Compared to the original it was bad (original music tracks do not gurantee a better product), and standalone it was also bad. There was little to no effort into their dub and it shows. Already mentioned is the inconsistency issue, how anyone can enjoy anything that incosistent would really confuse me, since had I not seen the original I would've been really lost, and there were instances in SS where I was really lost and actually had to rewatch a few fansubs to figure out what happened.

Basically, like I said above, I choose DiC for better dubber out of the two. They put effort in their product and it shows. CWi didn't and it really shows. Just goes to prove that if you want a product to do well, it's the effort that's put in that makes or breaks the product, and Sailor Moon is a perfect example of that. DiC and Geneon (Pioneer) put effort in and did good jobs, ADV and CWi didn't and they were crap.
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Post by Tiff » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:48 pm

MarioKnight wrote:I would vote DiC for better dub. To put it as basically as I can, they did more work and it showed. They had an agenda with the franchise and made a great product out of it. Sure they cut a lot of stuff, majority unnecessary, and made their own music, but it all came out to be a great product, as long as it's not compared to the original that is. If seen standalone, then it was great.
You make a great point. Now it's even harder for me to decide -_-;

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Post by yoshmaster5 » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:20 pm

All right... *pulls out Clipboard* What?

Okay...

Cloverway +
Hotaru! *my fav. senshi's name is kept!*
Original Music
No originally cut eps- all were CN's fault.
"Pretty Sailor Senshi" lines

DiC +
Consistant
Did more work

Cloverway -
Incosistant
Bad Names
HORRIBLE Slang
Ruined cliffhanger episode in both seasons
Dialouge... ALL THE TIME
Psycho Cuts

DiC -
Bad Synthisized music
Sailor Says. nuff' said
Cuts important character developing *Usagi's & Minako's* episodes
Combines 45 & 46 for, "Excessive Violence" honestly... the Stars Ending is MUCH more violent...
Butchers TOO MANY episodes
Bad Names

Overall... DiC is probebly worse. they NEVER would have kept Hotaru-chan's name...
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Post by LadyFlameSniper » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:24 pm

Overall... DiC is probebly worse. they NEVER would have kept Hotaru-chan's name...
Yeah DiC would've changed Hotaru's name to something like Hortence or Horatio. Even though the latter is a boy's name, it doesn't matter!

I think CWI's dub could've been better also if Cartoon Network didn't rush them and Optimum. When S started airing, not all of the episodes had even been dubbed.
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Post by Tiff » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:39 pm

LadyFlameSniper wrote:
Yeah DiC would've changed Hotaru's name to something like Hortence or Horatio. Even though the latter is a boy's name, it doesn't matter!
LMAO Horatio.
Probably Heather or something.

And Derek just made a good point...he said that "DiC in the beginning was the best overall. Then it just tapered off and went downhill."

I agree. DiC really had something good goin. The dialog wasn't bad at all ("I'm drawing my favorite superhero!" that line just cracks me and Derek up), Serena's voice was cute, and the general premise of the show was good. Then they just...butchered it toward the end of Classic.

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Post by Tempest » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:40 pm

I kinda liked cloverway more. ^^; Some of the voices they chose was horrible, yes. But they did find a better voice for Rini. Plus, they kept Lita's voice and I like her voice actor. I also respect them for the fact they they tried to start using the Japanese names for the attacks ... except, Mars Flame Shooter... wtf?

I imagine that if DiC continuted to dub Sailormoon, Hotaru's name would have been something like Daisy or Heather.
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Post by Starscream » Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:46 pm

If I'm to be objective...then yes, DiC did a better job. Despite the dialog changes and episode butchering...they kept a good deal of plot in there. CWI was all over the place, where as DiC did try to make a *somewhat* mature translation of the show.

...wow, that was hard for me to say. Subjectively, however, I really don't like how DiC treated some of the characters. But that's my own little thing ><
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Post by Anthy » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:02 pm

I agree with Dan. I mean, Cloverway WAS closer to the original, but the whole thing standing alone made so little sense. DiC at least bothered to be coherent. Aside from the odd slang and the fact that it didn't match the original most of the time, of course, DiC had some good dialouge writers. I actually liked some of the lines.

I didn't like how Rei was treated at all by DiC, though. Not one single bit.

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Post by J Anderson » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:03 pm

I honestly prefer the DiC dub over the Optimum Stuff. Especially the first few episodes, since they had Tracey Moore as Sailor Moon. terri Hawkes was overboard, but not as bad as that shrill, painful voice Optimum gave her.

And in terms of PSAs, I've seen far worse ones in cartoons.

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Post by FoxFire » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:13 pm

I still prefer Cloverway. All the inconstancy was annoying, but the fact that they dubbed every episode and kept more of the original names and Japanese cultural references intact and in many cases (such as Sailor Moon's speeches) they translated the dialogue better indicates that they tried harder to keep it closer to the original to me. The original background music doesn't hurt either, and I actually like most of the Cloverway voices better. I am biased though, because I've seen all the Cloverway episodes and only some of the Dic episodes (a handful from Classic and most from R save a few).
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Post by Vchan » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:29 pm

I agree with Dan. When you don't compare it to the original, the DiC dub is a great cartoon. Good voice acting, good music, everything you'd expect in a Saturday morning cartoon for little girls. CWI on the other hand, produced a crappy product. The voices were bad, the dialogue was bad, the attack names were inconsistent, etc. and all of a sudden there's these weird, foreign names. Who the hell is called Hotaru? From the position of an American fan who knows nothing of SM's true origins, S and SuperS were a big let down.
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Post by marspeach » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:31 pm

It's hard to choose, because they were both equally bad, just in different ways. The DIC dub was terribly butchered, but it was actually easier to watch than the Cloverway version, if you don't compare it to the original. I couldn't stand the Cloverway version's voices and inconsistancy. Yes, it was truer to the original, but if you don't compare the dubs to the original, and just to each other, I feel the DIC version is better just because the voices are easier on the ears.
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Post by Cardcaptor Takato » Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:39 pm

The DiC dub hacked and slashed alot of the episodes, changed the BGM, added that stupid Sailor Moon Says, and had annoying Americanized dialog, but at least the English voices were decent, though I found some of the lyrics for the DiC dub songs to be too corny. "The evil queen we must defeat?" What the....? The only problems I have with Cloverway, however, are the inconsistencies of the attack names, and a few bad voices, but hey, I watched all of the American dub of CC, so I can take it. ^^ I'll have to say that Cloverway did the better job of dubbing Sailor Moon.

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Post by Rainbow » Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:47 pm

I'm for Cloverway:
1) It's nostalgic for me, since it was the first TV dub I saw.
2) I wasn't really confused by the inconsistencies myself--for example, calling the Witches 5 the "Bureau of Bad Behavior," when I was a new dubbie, I thought the Bureau of Bad Behavior was the entire group, and the Witches 5 were just Eugeal, Mimette...etc.
3) I like their voices better...Serena's is funny, I can imitate hers, Amy's and Rini's, and I USED to be able to do Amara's voice too. Actually, the Cloverway Serena voice is my favorite of the professional Sailor Moon dub voices, since it sounds so goofy. Yes, I know I'm the only one who likes it. The only DiC voices that stand out as good ones in my mind are Luna's (which is the same in both versions) and the one animator with a Southern accents...forgive me, purists, but I'm a major sucker for characters with different accents. I don't care what the original voice is...I'm not a purist!
4) The Cloverway dub didn't say ANYTHING about fainting being princess-like.
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Post by LadyFlameSniper » Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:45 pm

J Anderson wrote:I honestly prefer the DiC dub over the Optimum Stuff. Especially the first few episodes, since they had Tracey Moore as Sailor Moon. terri Hawkes was overboard, but not as bad as that shrill, painful voice Optimum gave her.

And in terms of PSAs, I've seen far worse ones in cartoons.
Actually Optimum did the actual dubbing for all of the seasons, even when DiC had the license. They hired all the VAs when DiC was in charge too. But they had different people working there at that time. I read that the person in charge of the dubbing when CWI got the license wasn't even fluent in English.
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Post by Tiff » Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:53 pm

LadyFlameSniper wrote: I read that the person in charge of the dubbing when CWI got the license wasn't even fluent in English.
Yeah. We were one of the people that said that ^^

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Rachel: Huh...a...moo point?
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